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mark143
Egg
United Kingdom
87 Posts |
 Posted - 21/08/2013 : 20:56:09
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I asked in the wrong section a couple of weeks ago but got a couple of answers.
I've now got a couple more better photos of Sid.
As i said before, he was sold as an Amel Motley.
Opinions please.
Thanks.
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ScaryVonHayleystine
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1773 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2013 : 21:10:25
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| Amel yes, motley no :) |
Albino Addiction ... <3
0.1.0 - Creamsicle Cornsnake (Mo)
1.0.0 - Bubblegum Snow Corn (Gabriel)
1.0.0 - Lavendar 100% Het Hypo Corn (Ezra)
1.0.0 - Bairds Rat Snake (Lazarus)
0.0.1 - Crested Gecko (Pan) |
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LukeW
Hatchling
United Kingdom
276 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2013 : 21:11:34
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| Looks more hypo to me could be wrong |
Female normal - Cyrus (can't think of a girl name :p)
Male charcoal - Midnight
Female amel - Lilly
Female CB13 anery 100% het sunkissed - Ariel.
Male CB13 fire 100% het stripe, 50% het hypo, anery and lavender
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2013 : 21:59:14
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Looks either Hypo or Carolina to me. Not Amel Motley. Not Motley at all.
ScaryVH: It's belly checkers are black so not amel. |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2013 : 22:36:49
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Bit pointless now,as eeji's your best bet, just thought I'd help to explain.
Can't be amel, as pupils are dark, and so are the belly chequers.
Can't be motley, as motleys have clear bellies with no belly chequers.
Definitely some form of hypo, as the black is so faded and his colours so bright, and ultramel fits really well.... Plus eeji's the morph specialist, so I'd take his word for it :-) |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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ScaryVonHayleystine
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1773 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2013 : 08:22:36
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| Sorry didnt really pick up on that :L Amel no! :P |
Albino Addiction ... <3
0.1.0 - Creamsicle Cornsnake (Mo)
1.0.0 - Bubblegum Snow Corn (Gabriel)
1.0.0 - Lavendar 100% Het Hypo Corn (Ezra)
1.0.0 - Bairds Rat Snake (Lazarus)
0.0.1 - Crested Gecko (Pan) |
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mark143
Egg
United Kingdom
87 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2013 : 15:08:50
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Thanks everyone nice to know what he is.
all this morph business seems too complicated for me.
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2013 : 15:15:43
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Ultramel is a Hybrid so if you breed him in the future, make sure you mention to all the hatchlings owners that their father is a Grey Rat Snake x Corn Snake  |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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mark143
Egg
United Kingdom
87 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2013 : 21:00:20
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Wont be breeding but thanks, interesting to know.
another newbie question on the same subject.
Are grey rat snakes larger than corns?
And if so does that mean because sid is a corn x rat, he could grow bigger than a "normal" corn? |
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mjpeters
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1539 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2013 : 21:37:05
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quote:
Originally posted by AcidicAngel
Ultramel is a Hybrid so if you breed him in the future, make sure you mention to all the hatchlings owners that their father is a Grey Rat Snake x Corn Snake
I was reading this on Ians viv.http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/ultra.php?sid=
as I understand it the Ultra Gene was originaly from Grey Rat snake-and is now dispersed throughout much of the captive corn snake population.
What I mean is that many corns carry the gene-without being 50% Grey Rat.I know this is contentious issue BUT surely its equaly misleading to say a snake is a first or second generation hybrid when they are most likely not??
EG/I have two Ultramel Anery's,neither of them had a grey rat snake as a parent,grandparent or great,great grandparent!
Personaly I feel it would be better to say that the Ultra gene was first seen in a Corn/Grey rat hybrid? and then leave folks to make their own minds up? after all absolute purists will surely be looking for F1 or F2 from wild caught parents?
Even then whats to prevent Hybrids occuring in overlapping wild populations?
Does anyone remember the Pizzly/Grolar Bear (polar Grizzly cross)that was shot in the wild a few years ago? |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2013 : 23:38:29
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Grey rats and corns range don't overlap so its unlikely that there would be any natural intergrade.
It is a bit misleading of me to bunch ultra in with the hybrids because simply crossing a grey rat with a corn does not produce an ultra. Its been the source of much debate of how they should be listed, and myself personally don't like where they sit at present so they may be moved out of the hybrid section but still retain the information of the morphs origin. |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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oakleyman18
Yearling
828 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2013 : 08:42:49
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I agree with Eeji on this- Ultra isn't the RESULT of a cross, more that it was first noticed in one I do believe. Also agree that ultra is now widely dispersed in corns, and corns which are for example ultramel, are a very low % of ratsnake.
However, I think there's a responsibility on the behalf of any breeder to let the public know what they are buying. You personally might label everything correctly, but there are a lot of people who don't label correctly, and this has been proven especially widespread this year, with so many creamsicles and jungles etc misrepresented. Then follows the awkward conversations on pages and topics where people get upset and refuse to believe they have hybrids, and it all gets nasty. Then the gene pool gets diluted further...
For a majority of cases I would agree it's not needed. Correct labelling as homo/het ultra should be enough for people to realise, but reality is that not everyone understands genetics as well as some of us on here, so I think it's up to us to lead by example.. :)
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Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Tessera het Caramel Diffused Hypo ph Amel Anery CB'12 "Cassi", 0.1.0. Diffused Powder CB'12 "Ruby"
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender CB'11 "Amber", 1.0.0. Lavender Stripe het Diffused Anery Amel Hypo CB'11 "Pluto"
1.0.0. Hypo Opal Ph Stripe CB'12 "Hops", 1.0.0. Caramel Stripe het Amel CB'08 "Jasper", 1.0.0. Opal Stripe het Anery CB'09 "Topaz"
0.1.0. Amel Stripe het Caramel CB'09 "Poppy", 0.1.0. Tessera het Amel Lavender Stripe ph Diffused Hypo Anery CB'12 "Amethyst" |
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2013 : 10:16:26
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See - this is a very interesting debate, and I'm fully in agreement with mj on the Ultra gene ( and with eeji ). I always thought it'd be more precise, having the ultra gene combos among other corn snakes ( you used to , I think ), but perhaps with an asterix, explaining the origins of the ultra gene, as all the US breeders list them under corn snakes, anyway. The percentage of gray rat genes in them must be now minute. I'm all for being honest, and precise, but the problem is, so many people in the past haven't been, that the genes are now pretty far spread. Which brings me to the main question - how many of us can really, really 100% say we have a 100% pure corn snake, anyway?
How many people breed, for example from a creamsicle ( maybe even not realizing it is a creamsicle ), get amel looking babies, sell them to dealers, they are sold on to garden centers and Pets at Home, etc as amels, we buy them and breed them as amels... there are also so many so called breeders and pet shops, that haven't got the basic clue about even the most basic morphs. I saw a normal motley being sold as amel motley, the ugliest possible adult carolina being sold as an okeetee, baby carolinas being sold as anery... I could go on.
Because of this, I bet you, quite a high percentage of captive bred corn snakes in pet trade nowadays will have some genes in them, that are not originally corn, even if it's just 1%
I read an interesting thought in a Czech corn snake book regarding this - the author argues that because of the above mentioned, it would be more appropriate to call the snakes P. guttatus "domesticus" ( bit tongue in cheek ), as most are now not 100% pure corns, and have been captive bred , and inbred to get various morphs, for so many generations, they don't actually have that much in common with the original, wild corn snakes. Bit overdone, but there's some truth in it, I think. |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2013 : 20:31:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Razee
...it would be more appropriate to call the snakes P. guttatus "domesticus"...
Thats not a bad idea, there are loads of species that have borrowed mutations from others, eg. all P. slowinskii morphs come from corns, most honduran milksnakes in the trade (morphed or not) are not pure L.t. hondurensis, some of the albino milksnakes have been created by crossing the albino gene in from other species etc etc etc |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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mjpeters
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1539 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2013 : 21:37:34
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quote:
Originally posted by eeji
quote:
Originally posted by Razee
...it would be more appropriate to call the snakes P. guttatus "domesticus"...
Thats not a bad idea, there are loads of species that have borrowed mutations from others, eg. all P. slowinskii morphs come from corns, most honduran milksnakes in the trade (morphed or not) are not pure L.t. hondurensis, some of the albino milksnakes have been created by crossing the albino gene in from other species etc etc etc
I have for a loooong time thought that!! especially with some of the 'pattern morphs'I know its possibly NOT a popular viewpoint but there are many other snakes that look very-for example-stripey/Tessera'ish.
Please don't misunderstand me-I am not for even a millisecond suggesting any deliberate cross breeding-it can take take many many generations for a gene to disappear after its in a captive bred population.If that gene alters colour/pattern in a way folks like then the chances are it will be selected for not against,then like the ultra its here to stay! |
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2013 : 22:09:43
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Ah... Eeji, you confused me  I never knew about Ultra/Ultramel till seeing it on your Morph guide and so I've believed since first seeing it that it was a hybrid XD Sorry about that mark My bad.
Though everyone has brought to my attention that my corns could indeed be hybrids... Sakana does have quite a "long" head for a corn snake as I have noticed before. I've also been told her size, saddle shape and overall behaviour mean she's a hybrid.... |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
Edited by - AcidicAngel on 23/08/2013 22:11:14 |
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oakleyman18
Yearling
828 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2013 : 22:09:54
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| MJ- Tessera has just been proven out as a Hybrid :) Just FYI! |
Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Tessera het Caramel Diffused Hypo ph Amel Anery CB'12 "Cassi", 0.1.0. Diffused Powder CB'12 "Ruby"
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender CB'11 "Amber", 1.0.0. Lavender Stripe het Diffused Anery Amel Hypo CB'11 "Pluto"
1.0.0. Hypo Opal Ph Stripe CB'12 "Hops", 1.0.0. Caramel Stripe het Amel CB'08 "Jasper", 1.0.0. Opal Stripe het Anery CB'09 "Topaz"
0.1.0. Amel Stripe het Caramel CB'09 "Poppy", 0.1.0. Tessera het Amel Lavender Stripe ph Diffused Hypo Anery CB'12 "Amethyst" |
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2013 : 22:11:47
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quote:
Originally posted by oakleyman18
MJ- Tessera has just been proven out as a Hybrid :) Just FYI!
Wait... What?! |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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mjpeters
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1539 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2013 : 22:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by oakleyman18
MJ- Tessera has just been proven out as a Hybrid :) Just FYI!
wot like this one? I Posted this some time ago...
well,who? how? where? when? link please??
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2013 : 22:41:05
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| That's a Jungle Corn Mj, I was just looking at that thread actually lol. |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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What is he?
