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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
 Posted - 29/07/2013 : 19:14:25
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I'm a little confused.
I know that the masque gene shows as a pattern on the head and split belly checkers.
I know that corn snake genes are supposed to have no markers for hets.
However I have produced multiple normal (without the masque head patterns) which have split ventral checkers.
Any idea why? |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
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ScaryVonHayleystine
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1773 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2013 : 19:32:35
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| Pictures could be handy :) |
Albino Addiction ... <3
0.1.0 - Creamsicle Cornsnake (Mo)
1.0.0 - Bubblegum Snow Corn (Gabriel)
1.0.0 - Lavendar 100% Het Hypo Corn (Ezra)
1.0.0 - Bairds Rat Snake (Lazarus)
0.0.1 - Crested Gecko (Pan) |
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oakleyman18
Yearling
828 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2013 : 19:34:04
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Hey Moppet :)
As far as I'm aware, the masque gene can manifest itself without the head pattern, however the checkers is usually the best way to ascertain Masque. I have a few Ambers this year that have split checkers but little head markings, some masques with checkers and with head markings, and some completely normal ambers. Masque is still relatively new, but if you have split checkers, then Masque it is :) I'll get up some pictures of mine tomorrow to see if they're the same!
Am I right in assuming one of the parents was Masque? |
Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Tessera het Caramel Diffused Hypo ph Amel Anery CB'12 "Cassi", 0.1.0. Diffused Powder CB'12 "Ruby"
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender CB'11 "Amber", 1.0.0. Lavender Stripe het Diffused Anery Amel Hypo CB'11 "Pluto"
1.0.0. Hypo Opal Ph Stripe CB'12 "Hops", 1.0.0. Caramel Stripe het Amel CB'08 "Jasper", 1.0.0. Opal Stripe het Anery CB'09 "Topaz"
0.1.0. Amel Stripe het Caramel CB'09 "Poppy", 0.1.0. Tessera het Amel Lavender Stripe ph Diffused Hypo Anery CB'12 "Amethyst" |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2013 : 19:36:07
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Nope, neither of the parents are masque. Neither parent has split ventral checkers. Just one or two of the hatchlings, their head patterns are completely normal, no other hint of the masque gene.
I will put up some pictures a little later when I have charged my camera  |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
Edited by - Moppet on 29/07/2013 19:37:15 |
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oakleyman18
Yearling
828 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2013 : 20:23:45
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Interesting.. Masque is though to be at least co-dom at the moment, so it's surprising to see neither parent showing. The Amber pairing I have the male is very heavily masqued, so assumed some babies would be (I'd imagine about 1/2 are).
Keen to see a picture :)
There must be more to this gene than we know! |
Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Tessera het Caramel Diffused Hypo ph Amel Anery CB'12 "Cassi", 0.1.0. Diffused Powder CB'12 "Ruby"
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender CB'11 "Amber", 1.0.0. Lavender Stripe het Diffused Anery Amel Hypo CB'11 "Pluto"
1.0.0. Hypo Opal Ph Stripe CB'12 "Hops", 1.0.0. Caramel Stripe het Amel CB'08 "Jasper", 1.0.0. Opal Stripe het Anery CB'09 "Topaz"
0.1.0. Amel Stripe het Caramel CB'09 "Poppy", 0.1.0. Tessera het Amel Lavender Stripe ph Diffused Hypo Anery CB'12 "Amethyst" |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2013 : 21:21:34
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Or I've just missed something 
I think about half of my babies are affected (3 out of the 7 which have hatched have split ventral checkers). I suppose their head pattern is slightly abnormal too just not what I'd call masque (the classic scream/mask image...)
Okay photos Photobucket made this as hard as possible, really acting up...
On closer inspection (using the zoom on my camera...) I think perhaps their head patterns do look a little masque, just not very clearly. I will take photos of parents head patterns too just to be sure...
#5 - Normal male with split belly checker, little dots on the head pattern? Masqueish?
#7 - Normal male with split ventral pattern and masque(ish) looking head pattern.
Just a comparison
#1 - Normal female with normal ventral pattern and normal head pattern. Also because *ahem* she's my favourate from the clutch so far because of her amazingly placcid nature and gorgeous colouring... Don't tell the others...
Soooo what do we think? Masque babies? |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
Edited by - Moppet on 29/07/2013 21:41:55 |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2013 : 21:30:51
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Photos of the parents
Kali - the normal female is very deep in blue so I don't think it's really possible to see her head pattern. Even when she's not blue it isn't clear.
Apollo - the anery male has just come out of blue but I think his head pattern is just about visible.
Hard to see whether their head patterns are normal really but they don't look masque to me...
Mum - normal female
Belly - not actually split pattern, just faded to orange which isn't visible because she's blue
Ventral when not blue
Dad - Anery male
Belly - busy pattern but not split (excuse bulginess, he's due a shed and tends to wait to poop until afterwards...)
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2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
Edited by - Moppet on 29/07/2013 21:45:17 |
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mjpeters
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1539 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2013 : 22:53:51
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| Well,they look pretty splendid to me!may be worth speaking to them nice folks at Multicorn re the whole Masque thing-Martin has found that with his (at least) Masque tends to also lead to a broken pattern-like diffused but different. |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2013 : 23:03:15
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| masque ;) |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2013 : 23:11:08
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Thanks mjpeters.
Thanks gmac. I'm a little confused as to where they got it from. Do you think either of the parents looks like masque?
I thought it was supposed to be a dominant gene? Not much information on it about... |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
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oakleyman18
Yearling
828 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2013 : 17:26:26
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MjPeters- Diffused has no checkers, and het diffused have full checkers. The effect which is commonly misunderstood which shows split belly checkers is not anything to do with diffused, it's the masque gene only.
Moppet- Love the Aneries checkered belly btw :) However on the Mum I can see some elements near the tail which look a little masque like. I know you mentioned she's in shed, however in the orange faded areas, you can see some splitting of the patterns.
As Gmac says however, those babies you posted pics of are most positively masque :) I have 10 Ambers this year, of which 4 are heavily masqued (full on split checkers and crazy head patterns) and 2 which are only split checkered, but still have slightly unique head patterns- like your babies. This works out to 6/10 - which again is roughly half. So this agrees with the general notion that Masque acts very much like Tessera, in that if you are "het" masque/Tessera, 50% of the babies will be as such. So I suppose there is also a masque super form :)
I LOVE exploring these new genetics :D Welcome to the masque club!
I'll post pics of a few of mine tomorrow so you can see how similar they are to yours. |
Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Tessera het Caramel Diffused Hypo ph Amel Anery CB'12 "Cassi", 0.1.0. Diffused Powder CB'12 "Ruby"
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender CB'11 "Amber", 1.0.0. Lavender Stripe het Diffused Anery Amel Hypo CB'11 "Pluto"
1.0.0. Hypo Opal Ph Stripe CB'12 "Hops", 1.0.0. Caramel Stripe het Amel CB'08 "Jasper", 1.0.0. Opal Stripe het Anery CB'09 "Topaz"
0.1.0. Amel Stripe het Caramel CB'09 "Poppy", 0.1.0. Tessera het Amel Lavender Stripe ph Diffused Hypo Anery CB'12 "Amethyst" |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2013 : 18:19:24
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Awesome I've learnt lots from my first clutch already. I love the genetics side of things.
I thought my babies were just going to be normal, with a few hets. I had no idea of the masque bit. Very exciting. I thought masque corns had to have the proper 'scream' pattern like my two diffused corns do. I wonder if they are super masques, if not maybe I'll get some super masques from that pairing in a few years time as both of them are masque corns with what I would call the classic masque head patterns. I wonder if they look any different.
Looking forward to seeing your photos  |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
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oakleyman18
Yearling
828 Posts |
Posted - 31/07/2013 : 15:38:54
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Moppet- Here's an example of one of the Ambers. He has a fairly interesting head pattern, but not the classic scream mask many people associate with Masque. However he does have very obvious track checkers. Dad is a masque, but mum is not. :) Pic is only phone, so I do apologise!
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Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Tessera het Caramel Diffused Hypo ph Amel Anery CB'12 "Cassi", 0.1.0. Diffused Powder CB'12 "Ruby"
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender CB'11 "Amber", 1.0.0. Lavender Stripe het Diffused Anery Amel Hypo CB'11 "Pluto"
1.0.0. Hypo Opal Ph Stripe CB'12 "Hops", 1.0.0. Caramel Stripe het Amel CB'08 "Jasper", 1.0.0. Opal Stripe het Anery CB'09 "Topaz"
0.1.0. Amel Stripe het Caramel CB'09 "Poppy", 0.1.0. Tessera het Amel Lavender Stripe ph Diffused Hypo Anery CB'12 "Amethyst" |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2013 : 20:41:13
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| NOOOOOOO EEJI, you just made everything I 'knew' all confused again lol! |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2013 : 22:28:30
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I don't think any of these guys are hypo, what do you think eeji?  |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2013 : 08:19:12
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| But Kali is :P :P :P |
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2013 : 10:34:23
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| I'd say Kali is... She looks almost identical to my girly who is Hypo ph Amel Just my 2 cents. |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2013 : 15:15:26
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Haha, I was expecting that sort of a response. I meant the babies
There is a bit of debate about Mum. Kali was sold as a normal from a breeder who had her since a hatchling but she doesn't have much black. She's either a very good normal or a not so good Hypo. I will find out for sure next year as I will be pairing her with my Hypo Diffused. If all the babies come out as Hypo then that settles it once and for all |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2013 : 16:01:58
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| I keep telling you she's hypo, one day you will give in and agree lol! And if eeji pops back and says she's not it won't make any difference - I'll have my fingers in my ears la la la :P |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2013 : 22:48:45
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*sniggers*
Yeah, in the past eeji has said she could be either. |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
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Topic |
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Split ventral checkers pattern
