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herriotfan
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5853 Posts |
 Posted - 11/05/2010 : 17:58:43
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| I've learned from our sister site that Royal Pythons (spider morph) has something called 'wobbly-head' and it's basically because of people hybrid breeding. (Ok, our experts will tell me it's got some other name but I'm sure you'll understand what I mean!) Do you know of any man-made problems with cornsnakes? Are certain morphs more prone than others? I would be interested to hear of any known problems within the cornsnake world. |
Husband....Very Understanding!!! (Phil)
Son & Daughter (Kevin & Carol)
Granddaughter (Eva)
3.4.0 Cornsnakes Amel (Sidney) Caramel Stripe (Sultan) Amber (Cleo) Carolina (Phoebe) Anery Motley Stripe (Penny) Snow (Lily) Caramel (Holmes)
1.2.0 Royal Pythons(Peeps, Pandora & Pepsi)
1.0.0 Hognose (Hudson)
2.1.0 Dogs (Dillon, Alfie, Ellie)
0.1.0 Senegal Parrot (Peanut)
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons (Bonnie & Clyde)
1.0.0 Crested Geckos (Echo)
0.2.1 Hermanns Tortoises (Ebbie, Rosie & Twiglet)
0.1.0 Guinea Pig (Dolly-Pipsqueak)
0.1.9 Tarantulas (Poppy, Gypsy, Bumble, Insey Winsey, Sonic, Cookie, Raven, Fudge, Titch & Sox)
??? Foster animals
Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex
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HannahB
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
5491 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 18:26:57
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the spider morphs wobble isnt a 'mad made' problem.. the first spider morph found in the wild had a head wobble and so pretty much all spiders have it as its genetic and they all decend from the same one, spider siblings (which carry the gene for spider but dont display it) dont usually display the symptoms but they carry it - put two carriers together and any spider hatchlings will have the wobble,obviously some arent as affected as others but its present,
with corns theres idea's floating that blizzards are prone to be fussy eaters but im not convinced..my zero is a great little eater - he doesnt eat when blue but apart from that he strikes and constricts every time..
i seem to remember some one mentioning bloodreds being fussy eaters in a similar thread but im not sure..
edited to add..
iv read that kinks, abnormalities and other similar things can happen as a result of being incubated at the wrong temperature..things like organs missing and spinal problems, i guess that counts as a man made problem  |
2.0 Normal Royal Pythons - Q and Little One
1.0 Chihauhaun Mountain Kingsnake - Simba
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Edited by - HannahB on 11/05/2010 18:55:46 |
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herriotfan
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5853 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 19:00:19
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Oh thanks Hannah. I thought it was suggested that it was due to too much inbreeding so I'm glad you pointed that out to me!
I've not heard of any problems re corns which is why I thought I'd ask. Somebody may know if there are issues. |
Husband....Very Understanding!!! (Phil)
Son & Daughter (Kevin & Carol)
Granddaughter (Eva)
3.4.0 Cornsnakes Amel (Sidney) Caramel Stripe (Sultan) Amber (Cleo) Carolina (Phoebe) Anery Motley Stripe (Penny) Snow (Lily) Caramel (Holmes)
1.2.0 Royal Pythons(Peeps, Pandora & Pepsi)
1.0.0 Hognose (Hudson)
2.1.0 Dogs (Dillon, Alfie, Ellie)
0.1.0 Senegal Parrot (Peanut)
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons (Bonnie & Clyde)
1.0.0 Crested Geckos (Echo)
0.2.1 Hermanns Tortoises (Ebbie, Rosie & Twiglet)
0.1.0 Guinea Pig (Dolly-Pipsqueak)
0.1.9 Tarantulas (Poppy, Gypsy, Bumble, Insey Winsey, Sonic, Cookie, Raven, Fudge, Titch & Sox)
??? Foster animals
Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 19:07:43
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There are a few 'man made' issues with corns, but the only ones i really know of are due to incubating, hot babies come from incubation over 30 degrees, you can get kinks, bubble heads, totally kinked spines, no stomaches, no eyes.
In breeding is the main problem with genetic problems, if you think about things like albinos, it is a genetic mutation, lacking a pigment.
Think about the fact that because the pigment is missing, we dont know if that has any other effect.
Talking about Boas, albinos bred to albinos can create some really bad deformities, missing eyes, etc. A lot of albino boas die young, or are still born. It stands to reason that with massive inbreeding, negative traits are being reinforced also, aswell as colour and pattern morphs. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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hillzi
The Lost boy.
United Kingdom
3984 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 19:44:09
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Not so much so in corns IMO, I think theyr'e really hardy, and theyr'e now common as muck people wont go to extent as much with them. Yeah star gazing is a problem, but this is neurological not man-made, one of those unfortunately no one can control or prescibe medisence for.
I've not heard of the wobble head in royals, but in boa's and other pythons theres something called MBO or something like that which is slightly more common. |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 22:35:25
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Do you mean the stargazing in boas? Its IBD, something bone disorder. Its also available in royal flavour too, and is incredibly contagious. In royals it tends to kill them very quickly, i heard of a method used a while ago about keeping a royal in with the boa, if it died the boa was killed.
IBD has no treatment, it has no means of being tested for either, the only way to truely diagnose is with a tissue sample, and that cant be done until the snake has died, so it does lead to a lot of vets crying IBD and euthanising a snake with no proof.
Are you also thinking MBD? Metabolic Bone Disorder? Common in leopard Geckos, or any lizards really, due to a lack of calcium in their diet their bones grow week and go bendy! we had one with MBD, she looked like she had rickets!
The head wobble on royals is only really prevalent in Spiders, they are a naturally occuring morph from the wild, and as such not really man made, but it can be exaggerated by breeding spider to spider. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 22:41:21
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quote:
Originally posted by HannahB
the spider morphs wobble isnt a 'mad made' problem.. the first spider morph found in the wild had a head wobble and so pretty much all spiders have it as its genetic and they all decend from the same one, spider siblings (which carry the gene for spider but dont display it) dont usually display the symptoms but they carry it - put two carriers together and any spider hatchlings will have the wobble,obviously some arent as affected as others but its present,
with corns theres idea's floating that blizzards are prone to be fussy eaters but im not convinced..my zero is a great little eater - he doesnt eat when blue but apart from that he strikes and constricts every time..
i seem to remember some one mentioning bloodreds being fussy eaters in a similar thread but im not sure..
edited to add..
iv read that kinks, abnormalities and other similar things can happen as a result of being incubated at the wrong temperature..things like organs missing and spinal problems, i guess that counts as a man made problem
Sorry Hannah, there is no such thing as a Het Spider. Spider is a dominant gene. |
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 22:43:50
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| IBD can affect any group of snake, but is seen as less life threatening to boas, and quick to kill pythons (around 4 weeks). Colubrids fall somewhere inbetween. |
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HannahB
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
5491 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 23:41:32
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quote:
Originally posted by matty18714
quote:
Originally posted by HannahB
the spider morphs wobble isnt a 'mad made' problem.. the first spider morph found in the wild had a head wobble and so pretty much all spiders have it as its genetic and they all decend from the same one, spider siblings (which carry the gene for spider but dont display it) dont usually display the symptoms but they carry it - put two carriers together and any spider hatchlings will have the wobble,obviously some arent as affected as others but its present,
with corns theres idea's floating that blizzards are prone to be fussy eaters but im not convinced..my zero is a great little eater - he doesnt eat when blue but apart from that he strikes and constricts every time..
i seem to remember some one mentioning bloodreds being fussy eaters in a similar thread but im not sure..
edited to add..
iv read that kinks, abnormalities and other similar things can happen as a result of being incubated at the wrong temperature..things like organs missing and spinal problems, i guess that counts as a man made problem
Sorry Hannah, there is no such thing as a Het Spider. Spider is a dominant gene.
whoops my bad..
i thought i read somewhere that spider siblings can still carry the gene for the wobble..guess not  |
2.0 Normal Royal Pythons - Q and Little One
1.0 Chihauhaun Mountain Kingsnake - Simba
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 18:21:47
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| Sunkissed corns are apprently more prone to having the stargazing effect. The problem didn't really occur because of inbreeding but inbreeding snakes together that carried the star gazing gene together made the snake more likely to be a star gazer to to carry that gene. What annoys me is that the breeder who noticed the sunkissed gene only retired one of the parents instead of both because she thought it was only one of them yet it was both. |
  
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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243 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 18:29:30
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| mikerichards-- you mentions kinks for snakes there due to incubation are they dangerous for the snake? sorry to hi-jack our tiggs has a kink this is what we were told it was and she would grow out of it possibly even if she didnt it shouldnt affect her. was the info correct or someone talkin rubbish? she doesnt seem bothered by it anyway shes grand moving about and is grand being touched too |
 
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 18:31:55
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| I've seen some pictures of kinky's, some snakes don't seem to be affected by it but other die soon after hatching. I think it really depends how how bad the kinks are and where they are but your snakey looks fine :) |
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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DannyBrown91
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3070 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 18:35:27
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Candy has a kink in her tail. Im not sure wether she hatched with it or had an accident, i always put it down to having an accident.
But it dosn't seem to affect her movement or anything. She moves and climbs fine, infact she spends most of her time climbing.
Edit: the one thing it does affect mind you is shedding. She always snaps the skin as it gets to the kink, i then let her run through some damp kitchen paper and it comes off rather easilly then. |
0.0.1 Ghost Corn - Casper
0.0.1 Diffused Corn - Reggie
0.0.1 Amel Corn - Candy A.K.A Baby
1.0 Commom BCI - Rocky
0.1 Japanese Akita - Sasha
Location: Liverpool |
Edited by - DannyBrown91 on 12/05/2010 18:36:57 |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 18:39:45
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quote:
Originally posted by shortyireland
mikerichards-- you mentions kinks for snakes there due to incubation are they dangerous for the snake? sorry to hi-jack our tiggs has a kink this is what we were told it was and she would grow out of it possibly even if she didnt it shouldnt affect her. was the info correct or someone talkin rubbish? she doesnt seem bothered by it anyway shes grand moving about and is grand being touched too
She will never grow out of the Kink, its there, its staying.
Some kinks are there anyway, it cant be helped.
But, incubating hot can cause the kinks also. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 18:47:41
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quote:
Originally posted by matty18714
quote:
Originally posted by HannahB
the spider morphs wobble isnt a 'mad made' problem.. the first spider morph found in the wild had a head wobble and so pretty much all spiders have it as its genetic and they all decend from the same one, spider siblings (which carry the gene for spider but dont display it) dont usually display the symptoms but they carry it - put two carriers together and any spider hatchlings will have the wobble,obviously some arent as affected as others but its present,
with corns theres idea's floating that blizzards are prone to be fussy eaters but im not convinced..my zero is a great little eater - he doesnt eat when blue but apart from that he strikes and constricts every time..
i seem to remember some one mentioning bloodreds being fussy eaters in a similar thread but im not sure..
edited to add..
iv read that kinks, abnormalities and other similar things can happen as a result of being incubated at the wrong temperature..things like organs missing and spinal problems, i guess that counts as a man made problem
Sorry Hannah, there is no such thing as a Het Spider. Spider is a dominant gene.
Sorry Matty, but there is such thing as het Spider - but because its dominant, it looks exactly the same as a homozygous Spider  |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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n/a
deleted
243 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 18:47:58
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| just curious our little lady doesnt seem affected by it, shes eating for well, shedding well and gettin used to being handled. she is moving about nicely. i'll keep an eye on it |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 18:49:16
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Sometimes it doesnt affect them at all, they live a perfectly normal happy life.
If its not affecting her at all then dont worry about it, shes fine.
Personally, if your thinking about it, i wouldnt breed from her, sometimes kinks do inhibit the ability to pass eggs. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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deleted
243 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 18:50:42
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| oh shes way to you to even ponder on that one. she was bought as a pet and bcoz she has stunning colours. thanks :D |
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 22:22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by eeji
quote:
Originally posted by matty18714
quote:
Originally posted by HannahB
the spider morphs wobble isnt a 'mad made' problem.. the first spider morph found in the wild had a head wobble and so pretty much all spiders have it as its genetic and they all decend from the same one, spider siblings (which carry the gene for spider but dont display it) dont usually display the symptoms but they carry it - put two carriers together and any spider hatchlings will have the wobble,obviously some arent as affected as others but its present,
with corns theres idea's floating that blizzards are prone to be fussy eaters but im not convinced..my zero is a great little eater - he doesnt eat when blue but apart from that he strikes and constricts every time..
i seem to remember some one mentioning bloodreds being fussy eaters in a similar thread but im not sure..
edited to add..
iv read that kinks, abnormalities and other similar things can happen as a result of being incubated at the wrong temperature..things like organs missing and spinal problems, i guess that counts as a man made problem
Sorry Hannah, there is no such thing as a Het Spider. Spider is a dominant gene.
Sorry Matty, but there is such thing as het Spider - but because its dominant, it looks exactly the same as a homozygous Spider
Oh dear, im doing A-level biology and im already getting lazy with my genetics terms  |
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Blackecho
The Corn Snake Admin
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 22:49:15
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quote:
Originally posted by eeji
quote:
Originally posted by matty18714
quote:
Originally posted by HannahB
the spider morphs wobble isnt a 'mad made' problem.. the first spider morph found in the wild had a head wobble and so pretty much all spiders have it as its genetic and they all decend from the same one, spider siblings (which carry the gene for spider but dont display it) dont usually display the symptoms but they carry it - put two carriers together and any spider hatchlings will have the wobble,obviously some arent as affected as others but its present,
with corns theres idea's floating that blizzards are prone to be fussy eaters but im not convinced..my zero is a great little eater - he doesnt eat when blue but apart from that he strikes and constricts every time..
i seem to remember some one mentioning bloodreds being fussy eaters in a similar thread but im not sure..
edited to add..
iv read that kinks, abnormalities and other similar things can happen as a result of being incubated at the wrong temperature..things like organs missing and spinal problems, i guess that counts as a man made problem
Sorry Hannah, there is no such thing as a Het Spider. Spider is a dominant gene.
Sorry Matty, but there is such thing as het Spider - but because its dominant, it looks exactly the same as a homozygous Spider
Agreed (if there were a homozygous Spider ) |
 
www.theroyalpython.co.uk/forum
Location: Rotherham
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Man-made problems?
