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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2010 : 10:58:23
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I been on the fence with the whole heatmat debate for a while now. The ones in both my vivs are only held down with the weight of the hides above them and I been considering how to fix them down because of the dangers of sticky tape and snakes getting underneath etc.
So.. I phoned Europrep again and spoke to them and this is what they advised so I thought I'd pass it on so you can all decide to tile or not to tile as it were.
The heatmats themselves are made so that they "operate" around 30C. It is very rare in fact almost impossible for a snake to get burned by a habistat mat as they are designed to operate within a tolerance that is safe for the snake. He said in all the years of running the company he is not aware of any complaints of a snake getting burnt by one of their heatmats.
They DO recommend fixing your heatmat to the bottom of the viv to stop snakes getting underneath HOWEVER the main risk is that a snake gets under a taped down mat and cannot escape. He said and I quote in some respects if you have a loose mat there is very little chance of a snake going under the mat and getting burnt as a result as the snake will move if it gets uncomfortable. He said siliconing a mat to the bottom of the viv is fine as long as you are sure you have left no gaps where a snake could find its way under the mat and get trapped. At eurorep they use brown parcel tape to fix their mats down.
I then asked him about using vinyl tiles over mats and he said the only reason he could see the point in doing that was to waterproof the mat. Habistat mats are waterproof to a degree the actual mat bit is totally waterproof as it is encapsulated however the connection block IS NOT entirely water proof. It does have a silicone seal but you could not say emmerse the whole mat underwater. In the case of larger snakes like pythons that pass a lot of urine that could become a problem in which case encapsulating your heatmat in a waterproof chamber (under a properly sealed tile for instance) would have benefits but in the case of a corn they do not pass that much urate (most of which would be absorbed by the substrate) which therefore would render the use of a tile superflous.
Thats virtually word for word so I thought I'd pass it on to you guys to make your own minds up. Dont shoot the messenger lol
Steve
Ps the above applies ONLY to habistat heatmats it is not a general guide. |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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Kazerella
The Corn Snake Admin
United Kingdom
3093 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 11:14:38
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I haven't really got a comment about the tiles, but I would still say that a thermostat is vital - operating at 'around' 30 degrees isn't good enough really. We need to be sure the temps are correct.  |
 
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 11:20:50
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Oh good god yeah I wasnt in any way suggesting you dont use a thermostat and I dont think for a second the bloke at eurorep was either (otherwise why would they sell them) but he did actually say if you ran a heatmat at full whack theres little chance it will get hot enough to burn your snake.
However having said that... My own personal experience is I have seen a 11x11 heatmat spike at 38c. Now the question is was the thermometer at fault? Otherwise my hottest recorded temprature was 34c (with probe in direct contact with mat)which sounds a lot when corns are sposed to be kept at 27-30 but not when you consider human body tempreture is 37c |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 13:23:52
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Cheers elament.
Thats a good post.
I siliconed a tile ontop of mine on saturday, seems it was maybe not nesescary. Its a good point that if its not sealed all the way round then a snake could get under, and then not be able to get out. But mine is 100% sealed all around.
Thanks
Gaz |
0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 13:35:05
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Thats the main worry Gaz. There is an air pocket under the mat between it and the chipboard that will heat up to tempretures above and beyond what the heatmat is capable of so if a snake gets stuck under there there is a chance prolonged exposure to that heat could do it damage. A snake knows when its too warm and will move to the cold end which we have all seen them do so theoretically if it did wander under the mat it would know its too warm and move which it can do of course if the mat isnt fixed down. IF you think of it and you have your mat sealed down with tape or sealant for instance then there is no where the heat under the mat can disperse to as it would say if you had the mat loose So i think the moral of the thread is if you going to fix your mat down make sure you do it well with no gaps that snakey can get through and thereby get trapped.
Personally I'd be more inclined to worry about unguarded heat or spotlamp bulbs as they emit an instant heat that can burn on contact. |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 13:46:26
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Also I have found out what caused the spike of 38 as I recorded one today at 37 and quickly found out what the problem is which was something I had overlooked and is not covered on the care sheet. I refer to "Sighting your viv" or where you put it.
Xena's viv is in direct sunlight (opposite wall to the window) and I discovered today that just the intensity of the sun through the glass of the window and her viv is enough to warm up the soft black rubber on the stat and thermometer probes to 37 degrees c !!! Of course I have moved it immediately to a shaded spot and the viv has stabilized so that another thing to be careful of when setting up your viv. Didnt occure to me that the good old english sun would be capable of that but hey you live and learn. Fortuneatly I worked it out pretty quick but it does go to show I blamed the heatmat for the spike originally and it wasnt the case at all. |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 14:57:36
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Thats a good find elament, was worth mentioning.
Also i was slightly worried about the air pocket. There is a definite air pocket under the lino, maybe it wasnt pressed flat enough when i sealed it, so im guessing this air pocket will hold heat? But maybe this is a good thing and it will stay warmer for longer and possibly save electricity?
Gaz |
0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 15:18:40
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Yeah possibly mate but the main thing is stella cant get underneath so no worries. If I were you I'd rubber band the two probes together and place em directly on the tile that way you know the surface will never get above 30c. You'll probably find that with the air pocket and the vinyl tile that the temps will fluctuate far less (ie cool down a lot slower) which is good (which in effect could be another argument for putting the tile there in the first place I dunno) However it may be that the heatmat needs to heat to higher tempratures in the first place to achieve that heat (given the barrier between mat and snake) but once its acheived that temprature would need to be on far less as theres no heat dispersal and therefore more constant tempratures.
I think its a matter of preference really as with everything. Personally I'd rather rely on the sence of the snake to get the hell out of the way if its too hot. Afterall they do in the wild and they been round a lot longer than vinyl tiles lol
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1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 19:42:04
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Yeh good point again elament.
Will deffo be banding the probes together on top of the vinyl tile.
Cheers
Gaz |
0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 19:57:18
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welcome mate my pleasure
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1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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gingerpony
Queen Bee
United Kingdom
10455 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 21:01:03
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now i think about it, all the problems i've heard about unstatted mats actually damaging vivs or snakes due to excessive heat have all been, er, another brand! 
like Kaz said, even with them operating 'at around 30*C' i'd much prefer the actual temp to be controllable, and should anything happen like a fault with the mat then the stat would ensure it cut out to prevent damage or injury. |
cornsnakes, ratsnakes, bullsnakes, boas and day geckos
Location:Leeds/York/Selby area |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 09:33:50
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| Yep agreed, even in light of what I was told yesterday id still never use a mat without a stat as you say gp its a failsafe. And if you know of a snake thats been injured by a habistat mat you should phone the bloke at eurorep and tell him lol. |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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Topic |
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Habistat (eurorep) Heatmats
