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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
 Posted - 29/03/2013 : 15:32:56
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Thanks for you kind words, Kellog and Fi. What I'm worried about most is, that her throat will be dry again, and possibly swollen and sore from the two previous goes. I'm trying to think of anything, that would make this easier. I asked the vet about moistening or lubricating the syringe, with water, butter, or egg white, but he said not to, as it could irritate the throat. Then I thought - what about injecting the last lot into a belly of a mouse, and then letting her eat the mouse - surely , that way, she'd get the wormer, too. Question is, whether she'd eat, if her mouth and throat are sore :-(
Will try to ring the vets and ask tomorrow morning, but have a strong feeling they won't be in, as I heard the receptionist mention they're closed over the Easter. |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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Foxtrotsierra
Hatchling
United Kingdom
485 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2013 : 15:45:21
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Right Razee, as you know, absolutely NO expertise here, but just having a look in Kathy and Bill Love's book, they suggest withholding water for one day, then she will be thirsty and perhaps popping a little reptoboost in her water for tomorrow, the day you are due to give her the last dose (for a few different medications to ensure that they are taken).
I am completely with you on your idea though, my instinct would be to do the same as it is all going the same place, but with a little reptoboost to soothe her mouth at the same time. When is her feed next due? |
0.1.0 Snow - Cathy (digesting, waiting for her photo op)
0.1.0 Carolina - Delilah
0.1.0 King Charles Cavalier - Emily
0.1.0 St Bernard - Pooch
0.1.0 Manx Cat - Maggie
0.0.1 HUGE tropical fish tank + residents
1.0.0 Husband (thinks I am insane)
3.2.0 Children (think I am cool!)
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2013 : 16:00:46
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Yesterday or today - and I thought - instead of giving her her normal large mouse, I'd try her on fuzzy first, just to see, if she;ll eat, and to get her into feeding mode - and if she does eat, injecting the wormer into the belly of a small mouse ( that way she wouldn't be able to smell it ), and feeding her ( with a small mouse being easy to swallow, but big enough to put the wormer in ).
Two possible pitfalls, though: 1 - there's only a tiny amount of wormer, and even with a short needle, I wonder if I could get all of it into the mouse; and 2 - the vets did say it's better to put in her throat, and not mouse - so perhaps it might make a difference - or maybe they just meant I couldn't put all 3 doses in the mice, as I can't feed every other day - I don't know, that's why I'll try to get hold of them tomorrow ( not in today ). Hm. You can see I'm getting silly about this, but I'm just trying to make it as little damaging and traumatic for her, as I can. |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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Foxtrotsierra
Hatchling
United Kingdom
485 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2013 : 16:32:33
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You are not getting silly about it before (refers to own borderline hysterical thread  )
If the vet has said not to put the wormer into the mouse then although it goes against what my heart would say, there must be a good reason for it.
I know you are worried about hurting her mouth, but (puts sensible hat on), think about what she eats and the knobbles and bobbles that stick out of her food. Is that going to be any worse than the syringe going down there for a few seconds as opposed to the time it would take her to eat her prey and all of it pass over her throat? Probably not.
I would be terrified in your position, but thinking objectively, the sooner it is done, the sooner it is over.
*hugs* and good luck, please let us know what you end up doing as we all want Bazilishka to get better and you to feel better  |
0.1.0 Snow - Cathy (digesting, waiting for her photo op)
0.1.0 Carolina - Delilah
0.1.0 King Charles Cavalier - Emily
0.1.0 St Bernard - Pooch
0.1.0 Manx Cat - Maggie
0.0.1 HUGE tropical fish tank + residents
1.0.0 Husband (thinks I am insane)
3.2.0 Children (think I am cool!)
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2013 : 09:05:06
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I think it may be risky putting it in a mouse - what if she regurges? Then you wouldn't know how much she had actually taken? Also it may take too long to get into her system if she has to start digesting the outside of the mouse before she gets to the meds, and are the meds likely to change if they are in another body?? I know it's hard, and you don't want to hurt your snake, but I would say, there's only 1 dose left (I think that's right?) so I reckon you can do it.
One tip we got - please don't laugh at me! - was from watching Steve Backshall handle a large snake, I think it was an anaconda. He was saying how they ball their bodies up to give them more strength so they can pull their head away from you... and that if you pulled the body out straight then they lost all their strength. It rang loads of bells from when we were assist feeding Prism as that's exactly what she used to do, just thought it may help (although you are probably doing that anyway if you are trying to get something straight down her neck! |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2013 : 09:11:45
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I'm not surprised you are feeling the way you are Petra....so stop being silly saying that you are being silly about this   !!
I have never been in your position but if the vet has said not to put the wormer in a mouse then I would follow his advice. I know you are worried about hurting her mouth but, as Foxtrotsierra pointed out, corns swallow quite sharp bits, especially when they are given chicks....think about the claws and beaks  ! If snakes mouths are anything like ours, they heal quickly so even if the syringe does scratch her mouth or throat it shouldn't be an issue.
Just keep reminding yourself that this is something that has to be done, for Bazilishka's sake.
Xxx
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2013 : 10:13:18
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Thanks guys, decided to do it from the syringe, as, you are right, that's what the vets said - and god knows, how long it would take to get inside a snake from the mouse. I'll do the deed this afternoon, as that's when her previous 2 doses had been done. I have to hold her in vertical position, so that it helps the liquid go down, but will try to keep her straight, if only because once she's put a kink in her neck, she's impossible to straighten, so you might be right, smart bunny.
You're right about the beaks and claws, Kellog. It's just that when they're swallowing those, they are doing that voluntarily, and guide it in themselves, and adjust their throat around it, all nice and relaxed and stretchy. When you try to get the syringe down, not only she fights, she also clamps her throat muscles shut tight, so you are coaxing the hard and dry syringe into that :-(. But it has to be done. I'm planning to give her a couple of days off after that, and then try to feed something smaller, than usual, to make it easier to swallow.
I'll let you know, how it went. ( Aaargh ) |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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Foxtrotsierra
Hatchling
United Kingdom
485 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2013 : 10:35:08
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Just a thought Razee - could you get the syringe through a pinkie to try and disguise it for her? She might be a little more willing to accept it into her mouth and then do the deed? I know it is awfully deceitful, but if she takes the pinkie head into her mouth, plunge the syringe and down it goes. Food for thought?
Edited to add, or a size or two down from her usual prey size, if you get where I am coming from? Will be thinking of you both x |
0.1.0 Snow - Cathy (digesting, waiting for her photo op)
0.1.0 Carolina - Delilah
0.1.0 King Charles Cavalier - Emily
0.1.0 St Bernard - Pooch
0.1.0 Manx Cat - Maggie
0.0.1 HUGE tropical fish tank + residents
1.0.0 Husband (thinks I am insane)
3.2.0 Children (think I am cool!)
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Edited by - Foxtrotsierra on 30/03/2013 10:37:16 |
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2013 : 14:39:21
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| You can do it Razee!! |
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2013 : 16:40:01
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Done it. Still shaking. And yes, she fought, and yes, she managed to dribble some of it out, despite putting the syringe far in, and holding her upright. But, what's worse, her breathing doesn't sound right now, she's clicking, as she breaths, so I wonder, if she did manage to breathe some of it in, as she had full mouth of it. :-( Time will tell.
Fi, it was a good idea in principle, but wouldn't have worked, she would have thrown the pinkie out, the moment she'd have felt the syringe. She managed to do it with the fluid, even though I kept the syringe in for a while, after I pressed the plunger.
But I had a bowl with water ready, as I know she often likes to drink, when out of viv. I offered her some afterwards, and she carefully washed her mouth on the outside first, an then took a couple of gulps. Hopefully, this would have got the rest of the wormer down, and soothed her throat a bit. I know the wormer was ok, because the first vet said, I can mix it with a bit of water.
So , hopefully, that is that, now she just needs to eat for me, and NOT get RI or mouth rot, and test negative for the flagellates after the next poop. Would be nice, as I really don't want to have to do this again. Thank you all for the support. x |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2013 : 16:48:24
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| Awww well done, I'm sure she'll be fine, probably got a bit in her nose or something :) |
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Mort13
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5599 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2013 : 19:44:45
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| I've been through this with a very ill snake a while ago. Have you tried using KY Jelly....don't laugh! My vet advised me to put some round the part of the mouth to help insert the syringe easier,it also may help it slide through the mouth to the throat. I was given a catheter tube for cats to attach to the syringe too which made it easier to get through to the throat. Good luck,I know its not a nice experience at all. |
      
3.1.0 Corn snakes, 1.0.0 T-Albino Cape House Snake, 0.1.0 Western Hognose,
1.0.0 MBK, 0.1.0 Childrens Python, 1.0.0 Nicaraguan Dwarf Boas
0.0.1 Occelated Skink, 1.0.0 Leopard Gecko, 1.0.3 Tarantulas, 0.0.2 Damon diadema
1.0.0 C0ckatiel,
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 31/03/2013 : 04:22:46
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Oh well done Razee ...I'm not surprised you were shaking for a while afterwards. That was a great idea getting her to drink straight afterwards, not only will it have helped wash the wormer down but it will have also soothed her throat after having had the syringe down it.
As for her breathing....I guess it could just be that she was stressed or did breathe in a few drops. All you can do is keep a close eye on her, which I know you'll be doing, and if she gets any worse give the vet a ring and see what he says.
I do hope you're aware of how well you've done. You did something that you never thought you'd have to do, that you didn't really want to do but you knew it was necessary and that was very hard to do....I'm sure the vast majority of us would have struggled and some may even have been unable to attempt it. It shows how much you care for Bazilishka and what a good owner you are. Be pleased with yourself Razee.
Xxx
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Foxtrotsierra
Hatchling
United Kingdom
485 Posts |
Posted - 31/03/2013 : 10:46:14
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Razee - stressful as it was for you both, HUGE congrats on getting it done for you both. It was probably more traumatic for you than Bazilishka.
Will have everything crossed for a negative when you have her next sample tested.
Just thrilled that you got the last dose in her. I have every faith that her mouth will be fine - I am sure the vet would have asked you to bring her back for him to do it himself if he didn't think you could do it, and you did
Would genuinely love to know how she gets on in the next few days. |
0.1.0 Snow - Cathy (digesting, waiting for her photo op)
0.1.0 Carolina - Delilah
0.1.0 King Charles Cavalier - Emily
0.1.0 St Bernard - Pooch
0.1.0 Manx Cat - Maggie
0.0.1 HUGE tropical fish tank + residents
1.0.0 Husband (thinks I am insane)
3.2.0 Children (think I am cool!)
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 31/03/2013 : 10:49:46
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Mort, I did think about KY , it's water based, non irritating, and is supposed to be the best thing to use when probing, or egg white, as they dip pinkies in egg white to help with force feeding in Czech Republic. But the vet said no, so I went with that, though I must admit, I was not convinced.
Kellogg's, this was one of the hardest things I've done. I'm not squeamish, and I've always had animals, and had to do plenty of unpleasant things in the past, cleaning wounds etc., but this one was definitely the worst. I know it sounds ridiculous, it was only worming,after all. But it was the potential damage, I could have done, it was how difficult it was, but, mainly, how unpleasant it was for Bazilishka - and the fact, that you can't explain to a snake, it's for their own good.
It made me realise, how much I love her, though ( sounds cheesy now ). I've always cared for her, but she's quite nervous by nature, and doesn't like to come out ( and this didn't help, either ), whilst Little T's not only beautiful, he' really friendly and inquisitive, and comes out on his own accord, so I secretly thought, he was my favourite. So I was quite suprised at how I felt and how much I cared about her. And, I just realised - considering, what a nervous snake Bazilishka is, she never once tried, or even threatened to bite me. She' s such a good girl. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed her breathing will clear, and she'll eat.
She's sat In a hot hide, which she normally isn't, so hopefully, she's healing herself.
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0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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Foxtrotsierra
Hatchling
United Kingdom
485 Posts |
Posted - 31/03/2013 : 10:59:12
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| Razee - you gave me some great advice in "my" thread, that the hot hide will speed up digestion. Fingers crossed that this is the same for her worming medication, and it will get into her system quickly |
0.1.0 Snow - Cathy (digesting, waiting for her photo op)
0.1.0 Carolina - Delilah
0.1.0 King Charles Cavalier - Emily
0.1.0 St Bernard - Pooch
0.1.0 Manx Cat - Maggie
0.0.1 HUGE tropical fish tank + residents
1.0.0 Husband (thinks I am insane)
3.2.0 Children (think I am cool!)
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Mort13
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5599 Posts |
Posted - 31/03/2013 : 17:05:54
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I found the KY helped a lot, suppose vets all have their own ways though.
I can totally imagine how you must feel about her after going through this, you can't help but get a special bond through it all. My girl was so good while I did it for her, she'll always have a special place in my heart. |
3.1.0 Corn snakes, 1.0.0 T-Albino Cape House Snake, 0.1.0 Western Hognose,
1.0.0 MBK, 0.1.0 Childrens Python, 1.0.0 Nicaraguan Dwarf Boas
0.0.1 Occelated Skink, 1.0.0 Leopard Gecko, 1.0.3 Tarantulas, 0.0.2 Damon diadema
1.0.0 C0ckatiel,
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2013 : 04:05:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Razee
........Kellogg's, this was one of the hardest things I've done. I'm not squeamish, and I've always had animals, and had to do plenty of unpleasant things in the past, cleaning wounds etc., but this one was definitely the worst. I know it sounds ridiculous, it was only worming,after all. But it was the potential damage, I could have done, it was how difficult it was, but, mainly, how unpleasant it was for Bazilishka - and the fact, that you can't explain to a snake, it's for their own good.
It made me realise, how much I love her, though ( sounds cheesy now ). I've always cared for her, but she's quite nervous by nature, and doesn't like to come out ( and this didn't help, either ), whilst Little T's not only beautiful, he' really friendly and inquisitive, and comes out on his own accord, so I secretly thought, he was my favourite. So I was quite suprised at how I felt and how much I cared about her. And, I just realised - considering, what a nervous snake Bazilishka is, she never once tried, or even threatened to bite me. She' s such a good girl. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed her breathing will clear, and she'll eat.
She's sat In a hot hide, which she normally isn't, so hopefully, she's healing herself.
I totally understand what you mean. It isn't a case of doing something that would normally make you feel sick and you never imagined yourself doing, like braining a mouse or slitting its stomach open....it is so much more and lots of it has to do with the fear of the damage you might do to the snake. It is definitely NOT a case of 'just' worming!!
It's so interesting how Bazilishka reacted....or should I say 'didn't react'. Considering what you were putting her through you'd have thought she'd have fought back and struck at you....but maybe she knew you were trying to help. I know that the one time Silvi had a bad shed and I had to help her get it off she was totally docile, letting me 'feed' her through a damp towel to encourage the retained shed to come off. Normally that's something she would NEVER have let me do, but she seemed to just accept it. I guess we'll never know for sure, but I like to think that they can tell when we have their welfare at heart.
You don't sound cheesy at all, saying that this has made you realise how much you love her. All snakes have different personalities, and Little T certainly sounds as though he has a big one  . It's not surprising that he seemed to be 'top' snake, because he was the more dominant personality....if that makes sense!! But going through this with Bazilishka has opened your eyes to the fact that she is special in her own way and has a very definite place in your heart .
Xxx
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2013 : 15:00:38
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She'll always be my special girl, as she was my first snake, but yes, the last week or so made her even more dear to me.
It's funny you should say about them perhaps sensing, sometimes, we're trying to help. We have slow worms in our compost heap in the garden, and I used to practice snake ( well, lizard ) handling on them, before I had snakes ( turns red in shame ) ( Anyway, I HAD to handled them, as I was topping up the compost heap - that's my excuse :-) ). I'd say some of them even got to know me, and would sit on my lap or hands, and sunbathe happily, and left, when they wanted to.
I found one, covered in mites, so covered, about 60 % of his poor body surface was mites. I started gently rubbing them off, and he didn't like it. I was worried he might drop the tail, out of stress - but no, he turned around and bit me! Made me jump, too. But after a while, he lay on my lap, and let me pick off all the mites of him, even from the tail, without much fight or stressing - it was like he realized, what I was doing. I let him go, tail intact, mite free. :-) |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2013 : 16:59:16
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YAY
She ate, and how!
Decided to feed in her viv to keep stress to minimum, she was still in hot hide. Defrosted fuzzy and a small ( to make it easier on her ). Went in her viv, to clear the little aspen she's got over the heatmat, and she covered in the darkest corner of her hide...
Wriggled the fuzzy at the entrance - nothing. She covered even further. Wriggle again - nothing - then bang! She ripped it from me, dragged it in her hide... I thought - brilliant, I'll offer the small mouse next. She always strikes and coils the first item, but if fed second, she just grabs it, so I wasn't prepared, for what happened next.
Hide exploded upwards, Baziliska flew out of it, grabbed the small mouse, back in her hide - and coiled. The whole hide was jumping up and down the viv, accompanied by loud bangs! I was thrilled. until I noticed she knocked the probes out, and I will have to put them back under the lip of the hide...of course, that had to wait, till she finished eating and uncoiled.
Saw the hide slowly settling back down... her head emerged, with the very tip of mouse tail being slowly sucked in like spaghetti....and now was the time to fix the probes back under the lip of the hide, right by the entrance - I felt like sticking my hand in a piranha tank - you do NOT put your hand in front of Bazilishka in feeding mode.
Cue me, gingerly fixing the probes, Bazilishka retreated - and nothing! Probes done, Baz fed, me doing the happy dance!  |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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Vets trip...
