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Lozzy
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1556 Posts |
 Posted - 15/07/2012 : 22:50:20
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Basically i got my little man who is ultramel anery and have been reading more and more about how some people dont agree with breeding them so as to keep to con snake gene pool as pure as possible i was just wandering what your views are?
Not ready to breed for a few years yet just interested as i know im biased but i think he is a stunning little snake 
Thanks for your time |
0.1 CB10 Snow Cornsnake - Galaxy ~(Currently MIA)
1.0 CB11 Ultramel Anery Consnake -Orion
0.1 CB11 Lavender Cornsnake - Star
0.1 Leopard Gecko-Simo
1.1 Jack Russell-T.J and Harley (Minature)
1.1 Cats-Rascal and Dizzee
1.0 TB Horse-Mickey |
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Lozzy
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1556 Posts |
Posted - 15/07/2012 : 22:52:24
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Do apologize couple of typos there, sorry but i cant edit my first post |
0.1 CB10 Snow Cornsnake - Galaxy ~(Currently MIA)
1.0 CB11 Ultramel Anery Consnake -Orion
0.1 CB11 Lavender Cornsnake - Star
0.1 Leopard Gecko-Simo
1.1 Jack Russell-T.J and Harley (Minature)
1.1 Cats-Rascal and Dizzee
1.0 TB Horse-Mickey |
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Figs
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3319 Posts |
Posted - 15/07/2012 : 22:55:44
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I've just had a clutch of ultramel aneries hatch
Personally, I just see them as corns now!
I thought that since they've been bred pure corns over the generations that they are mostly corn now anyways |
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Donnie
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3215 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2012 : 00:06:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Figs
I thought that since they've been bred pure corns over the generations that they are mostly corn now anyways
I think this is a lot of people's thinking now. The %age of grey rat must be miniscule now so a lot of people just think of it as a corn. Looking at their distribution it crosses over with the corn snakes so I am sure that they would of cross bred in the wild so who knows what wild caught specimens have bred in them.
Bottom line is that they originated from cross breeding and this should always be mentioned if hatchlings were sold off. The hybrid thing matters to some people and not to others, its down to personal preference and I don't mind as I have one to |
1.1 Corns (Anery Stripe, Amel) 1.0 Rootbeer 0.2 Jungle Carpet Python 1.0 Zebra Jungle Carpet Python 1.0 50% Diamond Zebra Carpet Python |
Edited by - Donnie on 16/07/2012 00:07:48 |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2012 : 18:47:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Figs
I've just had a clutch of ultramel aneries hatch
Personally, I just see them as corns now!
I thought that since they've been bred pure corns over the generations that they are mostly corn now anyways
can the same be said for creamsicles or jungles that have a higher percentage of corn? A hybrid is a hybrid is a hybrid, no matter how many times they are crossed into a single parent species. |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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Lozzy
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1556 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2012 : 19:11:31
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quote:
can the same be said for creamsicles or jungles that have a higher percentage of corn? A hybrid is a hybrid is a hybrid, no matter how many times they are crossed into a single parent species.
So eeji do you not agree with breeding them? sorry just really interested in everyone's oppinion |
0.1 CB10 Snow Cornsnake - Galaxy ~(Currently MIA)
1.0 CB11 Ultramel Anery Consnake -Orion
0.1 CB11 Lavender Cornsnake - Star
0.1 Leopard Gecko-Simo
1.1 Jack Russell-T.J and Harley (Minature)
1.1 Cats-Rascal and Dizzee
1.0 TB Horse-Mickey |
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oakleyman18
Yearling
828 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2012 : 22:26:10
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| Personally I think people can breed whatever they want to breed, so long as they are responsible and label it as such. I agree with Eeji on this one... while I also think that the amount of hybrid is probably nearly nothing, it still is what it is :) just make sure every baby you make (if you do) is honestly labelled as a hybrid. |
Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Tessera het Caramel Diffused Hypo ph Amel Anery CB'12 "Cassi", 0.1.0. Diffused Powder CB'12 "Ruby"
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender CB'11 "Amber", 1.0.0. Lavender Stripe het Diffused Anery Amel Hypo CB'11 "Pluto"
1.0.0. Hypo Opal Ph Stripe CB'12 "Hops", 1.0.0. Caramel Stripe het Amel CB'08 "Jasper", 1.0.0. Opal Stripe het Anery CB'09 "Topaz"
0.1.0. Amel Stripe het Caramel CB'09 "Poppy", 0.1.0. Tessera het Amel Lavender Stripe ph Diffused Hypo Anery CB'12 "Amethyst" |
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Lozzy
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1556 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2012 : 22:36:08
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| Thanks oakleyman. Totally agree. I would always be honest if i were to breed. :) |
0.1 CB10 Snow Cornsnake - Galaxy ~(Currently MIA)
1.0 CB11 Ultramel Anery Consnake -Orion
0.1 CB11 Lavender Cornsnake - Star
0.1 Leopard Gecko-Simo
1.1 Jack Russell-T.J and Harley (Minature)
1.1 Cats-Rascal and Dizzee
1.0 TB Horse-Mickey |
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kdlang
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3556 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2012 : 11:44:34
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| I think the ultra morphs are gorgeous. However, they are hybrids and as such should always be labelled as hybrids. I will personally stay away from hybrid breeding, not because I don't like what is produced but because, however honest I am in informing buyers of their hybrid roots, whoever purchases from me may not be so honest. How many times to we see queries on here about whether an amel is an amel or a creamsicle. If we hadn't messed around with hybrid breeding in the first place then we wouldn't have this issue arising now and I prefer to try and avoid more of these issues occuring in the future. |
4.1.0 corns - Izzy (Carolina) Alice (Amel) Peanut (Butter Motley) Swayze (Ghost) Carmellia (Butter Motley)
0.1.0 cat - Kizzy
1.0.0 Dog - Dobbie
Location - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
www.support-dogs.org.uk |
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NexivRed
Yearling
United Kingdom
551 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2012 : 13:23:46
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I don't think someone should prevent themselves from breeding hybrids, because at the end of the day you could get some beautiful looking snakes out of it. But I think it should always be mentioned that a hybrid has been in the breeding program.
I personally wouldn't bother breeding a hybrid into a corn program that was specifically going for a certain type of morph for people to buy. Because as soon as you mention there was a hybrid in there, it might put people off.
I think just pointing out what generation had a known hybrid (such as the grandparents) is being honest, and a beautiful looking snake will sell itself. |
R.I.P. 0.1: CB10 Ophion - pewter masque het amel
1.0: CB10 lavender stripe het ??? - Alabaster (Bats) Codify
0.1: CB12 hypo plasma het amel - Nebula
0.2: CB13 diffused 66% pos het cinder - Demeter (Mimi) & Bombulurina (Reenie)
1.0: CB13 hypo cinder ?% pos het amel stripe - Huckleberry
0.1: CB13 anery aztec het amel - Tetris
1.0: CB13 gold dust motley stripe - Helios |
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Thorne Walker
Yearling
Canada
642 Posts |
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oakleyman18
Yearling
828 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2012 : 16:58:55
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You might not be bothered, but at the end of the day, you are diluting the gene pool of two separate species which aren't supposed to breed with each other.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, and yeah to be fair there probably isn't much distinction to be honest between the two. But remember we share 98% of the genome of the chimpanzee, and I'd say we were pretty different...! Just because they might be similar, doesn't mean they should be assumed the same, because at the end of the day, they're not. |
Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Tessera het Caramel Diffused Hypo ph Amel Anery CB'12 "Cassi", 0.1.0. Diffused Powder CB'12 "Ruby"
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender CB'11 "Amber", 1.0.0. Lavender Stripe het Diffused Anery Amel Hypo CB'11 "Pluto"
1.0.0. Hypo Opal Ph Stripe CB'12 "Hops", 1.0.0. Caramel Stripe het Amel CB'08 "Jasper", 1.0.0. Opal Stripe het Anery CB'09 "Topaz"
0.1.0. Amel Stripe het Caramel CB'09 "Poppy", 0.1.0. Tessera het Amel Lavender Stripe ph Diffused Hypo Anery CB'12 "Amethyst" |
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Thorne Walker
Yearling
Canada
642 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2012 : 19:27:11
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quote:
Originally posted by oakleyman18
You might not be bothered, but at the end of the day, you are diluting the gene pool of two separate species which aren't supposed to breed with each other.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, and yeah to be fair there probably isn't much distinction to be honest between the two. But remember we share 98% of the genome of the chimpanzee, and I'd say we were pretty different...! Just because they might be similar, doesn't mean they should be assumed the same, because at the end of the day, they're not.
Who says they aren't supposed to? After all you can't hybridise a corn and a python because they are too different genetically, even other rat snakes (like my Russian) are too dissimilar to produce live offspring with a corn.
Despite the 98% that you mention humans and chimps can't inter breed either and we are very similar internally (same diet means coding for the same digestive process's, same organ structure, etc) aside from some cosmetic differences and structural differences in the brain we are very much identical to chimps.
Also Virus' do a great job of transferring genetic material between the species they infect (which is one of the theory's about why the genome of the human and chimp are so similar).
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1.0.0 CB'11 Volcano Corn 'Kitty'
0.0.1 CB'11 Russian Rat Snake 'Monster'
2.0.0 CB'04 Roof Rabbits 'Baka Neko-San' and 'Usagi Neko-San'
My Setup :http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27228
The Kids: http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26248 |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2012 : 21:28:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Lozzy
quote:
can the same be said for creamsicles or jungles that have a higher percentage of corn? A hybrid is a hybrid is a hybrid, no matter how many times they are crossed into a single parent species.
So eeji do you not agree with breeding them? sorry just really interested in everyone's oppinion
quite the opposite, ultramel anery in particular is a really good looking morph (and I don't even much like grey morphs!). I think people should be free to breed whatever they like, BUT there are two things that get my goat up about it:
1 - hybrids that get sold as 'pure'. How many ads do you see with the title 'creamsicle cornsnake' that someone who doesn't know a creamsicle is a hybrid will come along and buy, then breed, then sell their 'amel corn' hatchlings thus inadvertently 'polluting' corn snake gene pools.
2 - the attitude that 'its been bred into corns for years so it must be a corn' or 'its only 1% xxxxspecies so it may as well be corn' - no it isn't. |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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NexivRed
Yearling
United Kingdom
551 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2012 : 21:59:48
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| I agree. People can breed whatever like they, but they shouldn't be sneaky about it. |
R.I.P. 0.1: CB10 Ophion - pewter masque het amel
1.0: CB10 lavender stripe het ??? - Alabaster (Bats) Codify
0.1: CB12 hypo plasma het amel - Nebula
0.2: CB13 diffused 66% pos het cinder - Demeter (Mimi) & Bombulurina (Reenie)
1.0: CB13 hypo cinder ?% pos het amel stripe - Huckleberry
0.1: CB13 anery aztec het amel - Tetris
1.0: CB13 gold dust motley stripe - Helios |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
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oakleyman18
Yearling
828 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2012 : 19:59:44
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| Couldn't agree more. As Eeji says, 95% of the time it's just because one person wasn't told, and they're honestly selling it on as they had it sold to them. |
Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Tessera het Caramel Diffused Hypo ph Amel Anery CB'12 "Cassi", 0.1.0. Diffused Powder CB'12 "Ruby"
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender CB'11 "Amber", 1.0.0. Lavender Stripe het Diffused Anery Amel Hypo CB'11 "Pluto"
1.0.0. Hypo Opal Ph Stripe CB'12 "Hops", 1.0.0. Caramel Stripe het Amel CB'08 "Jasper", 1.0.0. Opal Stripe het Anery CB'09 "Topaz"
0.1.0. Amel Stripe het Caramel CB'09 "Poppy", 0.1.0. Tessera het Amel Lavender Stripe ph Diffused Hypo Anery CB'12 "Amethyst" |
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Lozzy
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1556 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2012 : 20:45:11
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Just to add another question to the mix what would be the most interesting morph to breed with an ultramel anery, wouldn't mind doing it with my snow galaxy, if she ever returns *roll eyes* more to find out if she got any interesting hets hiding but i would need to buy another female as my lavender has kinks so i didn't buy her to breed. What you all think?
Thanks |
0.1 CB10 Snow Cornsnake - Galaxy ~(Currently MIA)
1.0 CB11 Ultramel Anery Consnake -Orion
0.1 CB11 Lavender Cornsnake - Star
0.1 Leopard Gecko-Simo
1.1 Jack Russell-T.J and Harley (Minature)
1.1 Cats-Rascal and Dizzee
1.0 TB Horse-Mickey |
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Thorne Walker
Yearling
Canada
642 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2012 : 21:23:35
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Just to be devils advocate...
Doesn't 'do your research' and 'buyer beware' essentially cover that.. if a person is going to be buying a particular morph then looking it up should readily tell a person if it's a hybrid morph..
I'm not trying to make excuses for sellers who are knowingly hide or misrepresent there product but trying to put all teh responsibility on the seller seems a little unfair in my book.
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1.0.0 CB'11 Volcano Corn 'Kitty'
0.0.1 CB'11 Russian Rat Snake 'Monster'
2.0.0 CB'04 Roof Rabbits 'Baka Neko-San' and 'Usagi Neko-San'
My Setup :http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27228
The Kids: http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26248 |
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oakleyman18
Yearling
828 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2012 : 21:39:08
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Oh yeah, for sure, good point. I think its obvious when something labelled as such, ie, Ultramel Anery (the ultra gene), but there could be perhaps an ultramel parent, but for whatever reason the babies aren't visual ultra, they get forgotten, and just labelled as normals, amels, etc.
Of course some people just go in to a shop and buy any old thing ;) |
Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Tessera het Caramel Diffused Hypo ph Amel Anery CB'12 "Cassi", 0.1.0. Diffused Powder CB'12 "Ruby"
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender CB'11 "Amber", 1.0.0. Lavender Stripe het Diffused Anery Amel Hypo CB'11 "Pluto"
1.0.0. Hypo Opal Ph Stripe CB'12 "Hops", 1.0.0. Caramel Stripe het Amel CB'08 "Jasper", 1.0.0. Opal Stripe het Anery CB'09 "Topaz"
0.1.0. Amel Stripe het Caramel CB'09 "Poppy", 0.1.0. Tessera het Amel Lavender Stripe ph Diffused Hypo Anery CB'12 "Amethyst" |
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Georgina
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2382 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2012 : 22:08:41
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| i had a full blown argument in a reptile shop the other day, they had a cremiscle come in , with a tag saying cremiscle, we spent 20 mins me saying it was a aybrid and her saying it was a different morph. she didnt understand what i meant by hybrid which didnt help. but some one looking for a corn wouldnt think twice if it was labelled cremisicle corn and that girl said yeah its a corn cremiscle just means its colour. i think there you be some sort or standard agency that could monitor some of the goings on in reptile shops. although i know it would be impossible, much like the SG prodject, i think they should then have paper work to say the are SG free and then that can be passed on. |
1.0 western hognose (hero)
1.0 phantom reverse pin dal brindle crested gecko (goyle)
0.2 red dal red harly (sprite) 99% full pin Harley crested gecko (TuLong)
0.0.3 miomantis paykullii
0.0.3 Bombina orientalis (oriental fire bellied toad)
0.3 fancy mice (snap, crackle and pop)
1.0 yorkshire terrier (jasper)
2.1 cats (echo, shadow and pokey) |
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Ultramel Anery
