| Author |
 Topic  |
|
mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
 Posted - 08/02/2012 : 12:00:54
|
My post was deleted where i explained it!! CM is wrong again though. Hes posted a link to 14-30 day old rats, they are fuzzies/weaners, not rat pups.
Rat pups are from birth to about 7 days old, before they get fur, which is usually in the first week. Weaners are as mentioned, when they move from mothers milk to hard food, which is between 3 weeks and 8 weeks old, hence why there can be such a huge difference in size.
A proper rat pup is about the size of a fuzzy mouse, sometimes though, if the rat has a small litter, then they can be quite a bit larger than one from a large litter. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
|
 |
|
|
Mort13
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5599 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 18:52:45
|
I happen to be feeding some of my snakes tonight and have fuzzies and a rat pup defrosting so I thought I'd take a pic.
Rat pup on the left. Mouse fuzzy on the right:
 |
      
3.1.0 Corn snakes, 1.0.0 T-Albino Cape House Snake, 0.1.0 Western Hognose,
1.0.0 MBK, 0.1.0 Childrens Python, 1.0.0 Nicaraguan Dwarf Boas
0.0.1 Occelated Skink, 1.0.0 Leopard Gecko, 1.0.3 Tarantulas, 0.0.2 Damon diadema
1.0.0 C0ckatiel,
|
|
|
|
SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 18:55:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mort13
I happen to be feeding some of my snakes tonight and have fuzzies and a rat pup defrosting so I thought I'd take a pic.
Rat pup on the left. Mouse fuzzy on the right:
Excellent!  |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
|
|
|
Georgina
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2382 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 19:14:25
|
| now that we have determined the size of a rat pup, im sure one the experts will be along to answer the original question. i hope that your corn starts feeding properly again soon x |
1.0 western hognose (hero)
1.0 phantom reverse pin dal brindle crested gecko (goyle)
0.2 red dal red harly (sprite) 99% full pin Harley crested gecko (TuLong)
0.0.3 miomantis paykullii
0.0.3 Bombina orientalis (oriental fire bellied toad)
0.3 fancy mice (snap, crackle and pop)
1.0 yorkshire terrier (jasper)
2.1 cats (echo, shadow and pokey) |
|
|
|
SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 20:37:37
|
| I'd be inclined to send off a fecal sample to the vet for testing, just in case. Reptoboost in the water will help settle the gut flora in between regurges and also get nutrients into the snake. |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
|
|
|
mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 20:52:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mort13
I happen to be feeding some of my snakes tonight and have fuzzies and a rat pup defrosting so I thought I'd take a pic.
Rat pup on the left. Mouse fuzzy on the right:
Shame CM has been banned, i really dont think he realises how hard it is being right!! 
Nice comparison Mort, spot on.
To the original problem, what are the living conditions, i know you say they are right, but we need to know numbers.
Also are the snakes in an area of high traffic? is it noisy around them a lot?
For now, move up a size, but back on mice, 1 medium mouse every 7 days, no more than that for now. See how he keeps that down. If there is nothing physically wrong, then its highly likely that there is an out side influence.
Out of interest, of the 3 rat pups that you feed him, how many does he regurge?? i would have thought after 3 days, it would either be 1 or 2, or a mix of both!! |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
|
|
|
|
Auld Baldy
Ikea's Pimp
United Kingdom
1619 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2012 : 05:29:32
|
First off, I am not a vet and this is my interpretation of the process in layman terms. The illustration is a general reference image. 
To add to number of food items issue, here's a representative diagram of a snake's internal anatomy. Note the relative size of the stomach, it is comparatively small in relation to the overall length. It is not a big sock which can be stuffed with multiple prey and be expected to process them all in one go or in sequence like a conveyor belt.
In a hungry healthy snake, the digestive juices will be at optimum strength for digesting one (possibly two smaller) normal prey item. That is, breaking down the fur and skin before passing the meat nutrients down into the small intestine for absorbtion and the remaining waste into poop. The skeleton will be one of the last thing to get the breakdown treatment. This will obviously deplete the efficiency of the remaining gastric juices. Further food items which have been 'stacked up' will arrive, not be able to be started on the first stages of break down and basically cause indigestion. No snake Alka-Seltzer so this indigestible food starts to go off and begins to rot, the snake will do the only thing it can and regurge.
Instead of trying to feed by volume, go back to one food item every 10 days that the snake can manage, even if it is smaller than normally expected. Do this for a month or so until things settle down. After that, move up to the next size but still keep it as a single item. Repeat and keep at it in size steps until up to normal sized prey for the size of snake. This would be my suggestion as long as there were no other underlying health problems. The snake's system has obviously taken a battering and needs a bit of time to recover to good condition. Start keeping a record of the weight before feeding and maybe stick to mice and see how things go.
HTH.
PS. Have you taken him to a vet for an expert opinion?
|
1.0.0: Miami Normal: Taggart
0.0.1: Carolina Normal: Wee Woody
0.0.1: Grey Rat Snake: Mirkey
0.0.1: Amel Corn: Blaze
1.0.0: Carpet Python: Vambo
0.0.1: MBK: Fester
0.0.1: Florida King Snake : Rattler (Rattle & Hum)
0.0.1. California King Snake: El Diablo Diego
0.2.0 Tarantulas : Ermintrude & Euphemia. |
Edited by - Auld Baldy on 15/02/2012 05:36:59 |
|
|
|
mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2012 : 06:01:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by nickyff
so a pup and a wiener aren't the same thing then?
I've noticed significant variation in the size of 'large' mice depending on where i buy them from- one of the shops I use only stocks pinks, fuzzies, 'small'mice, 'large' mice and then they go straight to these rat wiener thingies I've got, which as mentioned are still taking up freezer space- some of them are twice the size of what that particular shop calls a 'large' mouse..it's a big difference.
so then I went to P@H and got some 'jumbo' mice which are a tad smaller/about the same size as the rat wieners from the first shop..
I've never seen rat pups listed in any of the shops I go to- I assumed it was just a different name for the same thing..
I remember when sharon was on pinkies that they varied a LOT as well- within the same tub I would often find thAt the smallest pink would be less than half the size of the biggest one.
when it's all new to you, and you worry about doing things right, inconsistency in food sizes can be very confusing!!
oh! *lightbulb* ...-might it actually be 'weaner'?? ie the ratlet has been weaned onto solid food?
you pretty much got it in the end there. Its all about their life cycle. When both mice and rats are born, they are pinkies and pups respectively, they stay naked for about the first week, in which time they can put on quite a lot of weight, depending on how big the litter is, once they have fur, they are fuzzies, rat fuzzies are harder to get hold of than mice for some reason, again, they put on a lot of weight and grow a lot until they begin to wean off milk and onto hard food, can be anwhere between 3-4 weeks, and 8 weeks, hence small weaners, and large ones. Small of either would be the next stage, and throughout adulthood its done largely on weight.
Hopefully thats shed some light for you. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
|
|
|
|
mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2012 : 11:18:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Auld Baldy
First off, I am not a vet and this is my interpretation of the process in layman terms. The illustration is a general reference image.
To add to number of food items issue, here's a representative diagram of a snake's internal anatomy. Note the relative size of the stomach, it is comparatively small in relation to the overall length. It is not a big sock which can be stuffed with multiple prey and be expected to process them all in one go or in sequence like a conveyor belt.
In a hungry healthy snake, the digestive juices will be at optimum strength for digesting one (possibly two smaller) normal prey item. That is, breaking down the fur and skin before passing the meat nutrients down into the small intestine for absorbtion and the remaining waste into poop. The skeleton will be one of the last thing to get the breakdown treatment. This will obviously deplete the efficiency of the remaining gastric juices. Further food items which have been 'stacked up' will arrive, not be able to be started on the first stages of break down and basically cause indigestion. No snake Alka-Seltzer so this indigestible food starts to go off and begins to rot, the snake will do the only thing it can and regurge.
Instead of trying to feed by volume, go back to one food item every 10 days that the snake can manage, even if it is smaller than normally expected. Do this for a month or so until things settle down. After that, move up to the next size but still keep it as a single item. Repeat and keep at it in size steps until up to normal sized prey for the size of snake. This would be my suggestion as long as there were no other underlying health problems. The snake's system has obviously taken a battering and needs a bit of time to recover to good condition. Start keeping a record of the weight before feeding and maybe stick to mice and see how things go.
HTH.
PS. Have you taken him to a vet for an expert opinion?
For arguements sake, saying the stomach is not big enough, how does a kingsnake then deal with a rattlesnake that isnt much different in size??
Also, incidentally, stomach size wise, even if your pic was accurate to ratio etc, its a 16 inch snake with a 2 inch stomach!!!!
A lot of snakes are more than capable of dealing with multiple prey items efficiently.
A snakes stomach can and does expand to deal with the food that it contains, it does deal with them in a sort of conveyor belt style, but whilst in the stomach, all the food is being dealt with at once, its just the first bit of food gets dealt with faster. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
|
|
|
|
Auld Baldy
Ikea's Pimp
United Kingdom
1619 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2012 : 15:26:01
|
I posted this as a possible explanation to try and explain my reasoning behind the persistent regurge of what is not a healthy Corn Snake. The image is just for reference to general anatomical lay out.
As I said, I am not a vet but it is obvious that its system cannot handle normal food items and posted a suggestion to give it a chance to try and recover.
I don't have a clue on rattle snake/ kingsnake wars but obviously they were designed by nature to cope with it as long as they are healthy.
|
1.0.0: Miami Normal: Taggart
0.0.1: Carolina Normal: Wee Woody
0.0.1: Grey Rat Snake: Mirkey
0.0.1: Amel Corn: Blaze
1.0.0: Carpet Python: Vambo
0.0.1: MBK: Fester
0.0.1: Florida King Snake : Rattler (Rattle & Hum)
0.0.1. California King Snake: El Diablo Diego
0.2.0 Tarantulas : Ermintrude & Euphemia. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Sick snake, advice please
