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tony81
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
24 Posts |
 Posted - 05/02/2012 : 15:06:09
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got a 2 and a half year old 3 ft long miami corn that has had a lot of problems regurgitating since we got him. He doesnt seem to be able to hold down the right size food, so for the last 6 months he has been on rat pups (3 at a time). Sometimes he will feed every 7 days, other times every 14 days but now he seems to poo and then regurg about 3 days after eating.
we have double checked that temps are fine, viv is clean, water is always clean, its a good food source, hes not unduly stressed has plenty of hides, plants etc. our 2 females eat food from the same place, and live in the same closely monitored environment (all in seperate vivs) and are absolutely fine - they have never regurged, ever.
he seems perfectly fine within himself, never seems obviously poorly in any way; he just doesnt grow as well as the others (one of our females is a year younger and is the same size as him) and he pukes often.
is there any advice anyone can give me, does anyone have a clue what could be wrong with him?
thanks for reading! |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 15:19:21
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| if he is pooing and regurging I would think there are too many food items on offer and he cant digest all of the rat pups, Woild try him on just the one for a while then move to 2 if he is keeping them down. I wouldnt offer more than 2 as there could be issues between difesting and decaying. |
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nickyff
Yearling
507 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 00:07:53
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i don't know not nuffin not really, but- isnt 3x rat pups rather a lot for a 3ft snake? ive got what were called 'rat weaners' in my freezer just sitting there, cos punkin (3ft ish) wouldnt touch them..(not much bigger but I think they smell too different from his preferred jumbo mousies)
hm- not really added anything to what gmac said....
(removes oar) |
and you thought there was no such thing as a stupid question....
1.2.0 corns: captain haddock, sharon the tiddler and Darling Debbie. plus 0.2.0 cali kings: spot and Numpty... not forgetting the delightful Miss Lovely-Gonzalez-La-Poop apricot pueblan milk snake, and we all miss the Lodger who thought he was a cobra....
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Edited by - nickyff on 15/02/2012 02:47:47 |
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CentricMalteser85
Banned Again
United Kingdom
131 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 03:57:47
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Nicky is right
3 rat pups for a 3ft corn in one feeding period is overdoing especially since rats also have a higher fat content that mice
I have a 4ft corn and he takes 1 large mouse, once every 7 - 10 days which is sufficient
the regurge is because you are feeding him TOO MUCH, and snakes are like food dustbins and they dont have the capacity to think about the consequences.
what is worrying is not only you feedin 3 rat pups at a time but sometimes every 7 days, so in 2 weeks he could have potentially eaten what mine would eat in a month and a half!
advice - cut the feeding down to one large mouse every 7-10 days, avoid feeding during shedding, avoid handling for 72 hours after feeding
quote:
Originally posted by nickyff
i don't know not nuffin not really, but- isnt 3x rat pups rather a lot for a 3ft snake? ive got what were called 'rat weaners' in my freezer just sitting there, cos punkin (3ft and about 6-8 inches ish) wouldnt touch them..(not much bigger but I think they smell too different from his preferred jumbo mousies)
hm- not really added anything to what gmac said....
(removes oar)
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smiffy89
Hatchling
United Kingdom
342 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 06:03:24
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quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
Nicky is right
3 rat pups for a 3ft corn in one feeding period is overdoing especially since rats also have a higher fat content that mice
please can we not start the "rats have more fat than mice debate theres many factors to what levels of fats ect are in each rodent"
but agreed stop feeding so much so often,tbh id give him a break for a week or 2 to give his guts a chance to regain their balance |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 08:30:38
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| 1 rat pup is the sameish as 1 large mouse, so 3 is way too much! Most adult corns only get fed 1 large mouse. |
   
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 22:16:53
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What?? A rat pup is nothing compared to a large mouse, not even close. You lot do realise that a rat pup is a baby rat with no hair, so at most about an inch and a half long, maybe twice the size of a pinky. A 3ft snake eating 3 rat pups if anything is not enough, but then it depends on its body weight also.
Mr Malteser, you are talking rubbish again, whats more worrying than what you are worrying about, is that you have no idea about which you are worrying. He is not over feeding at all, unless the snake is 3ft and about 50g, in which case, food is the least of its problems.
I was feeding 6 month old corns one rat pup each, and 2 by the time they were 8 or 9 months old, so feeding a 3ft 3 isnt a problem, other than its too little.
A rat pup is the equivalent of roughly a small to medium mouse fluff, a small weaner is the equivalent of a large mouse, infact, i had bigger large mice than i did rat weaners until recently!!!! |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Edited by - mikerichards on 06/02/2012 22:17:27 |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 22:19:15
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quote:
Originally posted by gmac
if he is pooing and regurging I would think there are too many food items on offer and he cant digest all of the rat pups, Woild try him on just the one for a while then move to 2 if he is keeping them down. I wouldnt offer more than 2 as there could be issues between difesting and decaying.
^^^^ Right as normal
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
Nicky is right
3 rat pups for a 3ft corn in one feeding period is overdoing especially since rats also have a higher fat content that mice
I have a 4ft corn and he takes 1 large mouse, once every 7 - 10 days which is sufficient
the regurge is because you are feeding him TOO MUCH, and snakes are like food dustbins and they dont have the capacity to think about the consequences.
what is worrying is not only you feedin 3 rat pups at a time but sometimes every 7 days, so in 2 weeks he could have potentially eaten what mine would eat in a month and a half!
advice - cut the feeding down to one large mouse every 7-10 days, avoid feeding during shedding, avoid handling for 72 hours after feeding
quote:
Originally posted by nickyff
i don't know not nuffin not really, but- isnt 3x rat pups rather a lot for a 3ft snake? ive got what were called 'rat weaners' in my freezer just sitting there, cos punkin (3ft and about 6-8 inches ish) wouldnt touch them..(not much bigger but I think they smell too different from his preferred jumbo mousies)
hm- not really added anything to what gmac said....
(removes oar)
^^^^ Wrong as normal |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Edited by - mikerichards on 06/02/2012 22:20:02 |
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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 22:39:25
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quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
What?? A rat pup is nothing compared to a large mouse, not even close. You lot do realise that a rat pup is a baby rat with no hair, so at most about an inch and a half long, maybe twice the size of a pinky. A 3ft snake eating 3 rat pups if anything is not enough, but then it depends on its body weight also.
Mr Malteser, you are talking rubbish again, whats more worrying than what you are worrying about, is that you have no idea about which you are worrying. He is not over feeding at all, unless the snake is 3ft and about 50g, in which case, food is the least of its problems.
I was feeding 6 month old corns one rat pup each, and 2 by the time they were 8 or 9 months old, so feeding a 3ft 3 isnt a problem, other than its too little.
A rat pup is the equivalent of roughly a small to medium mouse fluff, a small weaner is the equivalent of a large mouse, infact, i had bigger large mice than i did rat weaners until recently!!!!
Couldn't agree more if I tried. Over feeding?! |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
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kdlang
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3556 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 23:05:18
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It does sound like he is regurging due to having too many prey items at once. I would follow what gmac says. Maybe you could post some pics of your snake, ideally while eating so we can get an idea of his size.
A rat pup is tiny. I am feeding them to one of my corns at the moment who is long but slender. He has gone weeks without eating but has eaten twice in a row with a rat pup. Going to move him up to 2 next week then hopefully try something bigger.
Sorry to thread hijack but while we are on the subject. I was wondering if nutritionally a rat pup is better, worse or the same as a large mouse fluff or small mouse. I'm sure I read somewhere that pinkie mice don't have as much calcium or nutrients as older mice and I was wondering if it's the same with rat pups. |
4.1.0 corns - Izzy (Carolina) Alice (Amel) Peanut (Butter Motley) Swayze (Ghost) Carmellia (Butter Motley)
0.1.0 cat - Kizzy
1.0.0 Dog - Dobbie
Location - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
www.support-dogs.org.uk |
Edited by - kdlang on 06/02/2012 23:07:41 |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 23:41:51
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quote:
Originally posted by kdlang
It does sound like he is regurging due to having too many prey items at once. I would follow what gmac says. Maybe you could post some pics of your snake, ideally while eating so we can get an idea of his size.
A rat pup is tiny. I am feeding them to one of my corns at the moment who is long but slender. He has gone weeks without eating but has eaten twice in a row with a rat pup. Going to move him up to 2 next week then hopefully try something bigger.
Sorry to thread hijack but while we are on the subject. I was wondering if nutritionally a rat pup is better, worse or the same as a large mouse fluff or small mouse. I'm sure I read somewhere that pinkie mice don't have as much calcium or nutrients as older mice and I was wondering if it's the same with rat pups.
they are similar, mice are actually fattier than rats body weight percentage wise until you get to large mice size and equivalent, i did find a sheet with all the info on when i had a row with GP about it ages ago.
baby rodents are never going to have the same calcium levels are adult and sub adult, they just havent developed enough. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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CentricMalteser85
Banned Again
United Kingdom
131 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 23:57:21
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Sorry to burst your bubble yet again mikerichards! but rat pup is based on interpretation
Guess what, I googled rat pup and went to images
and this is the link
https://micedirect.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&products_id=37
look at the image AND the weight, which by the way is a similar weight from a medium to large mouse!
Therefore based on the link and information above I am in fact right!
Therefore based on the information in one of many links I could bore you with, feeding 3 rat pups equilevant of 3 large mice, is too much.
As does the following quote from another member also agrees. Just for you mike it's just below
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
1 rat pup is the sameish as 1 large mouse, so 3 is way too much! Most adult corns only get fed 1 large mouse
By the way I also noticed Mike, that you didnt state that the comment above by that member was wrong, which would suggest a personal attack on me, ermm.... is that allowed? let me check............ oh no it's not
thankyou for your time
quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
What?? A rat pup is nothing compared to a large mouse, not even close. You lot do realise that a rat pup is a baby rat with no hair, so at most about an inch and a half long, maybe twice the size of a pinky. A 3ft snake eating 3 rat pups if anything is not enough, but then it depends on its body weight also.
Mr Malteser, you are talking rubbish again, whats more worrying than what you are worrying about, is that you have no idea about which you are worrying. He is not over feeding at all, unless the snake is 3ft and about 50g, in which case, food is the least of its problems.
I was feeding 6 month old corns one rat pup each, and 2 by the time they were 8 or 9 months old, so feeding a 3ft 3 isnt a problem, other than its too little.
A rat pup is the equivalent of roughly a small to medium mouse fluff, a small weaner is the equivalent of a large mouse, infact, i had bigger large mice than i did rat weaners until recently!!!!
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smiffy89
Hatchling
United Kingdom
342 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 23:59:07
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quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
quote:
Originally posted by kdlang
It does sound like he is regurging due to having too many prey items at once. I would follow what gmac says. Maybe you could post some pics of your snake, ideally while eating so we can get an idea of his size.
A rat pup is tiny. I am feeding them to one of my corns at the moment who is long but slender. He has gone weeks without eating but has eaten twice in a row with a rat pup. Going to move him up to 2 next week then hopefully try something bigger.
Sorry to thread hijack but while we are on the subject. I was wondering if nutritionally a rat pup is better, worse or the same as a large mouse fluff or small mouse. I'm sure I read somewhere that pinkie mice don't have as much calcium or nutrients as older mice and I was wondering if it's the same with rat pups.
they are similar, mice are actually fattier than rats body weight percentage wise until you get to large mice size and equivalent, i did find a sheet with all the info on when i had a row with GP about it ages ago.baby rodents are never going to have the same calcium levels are adult and sub adult, they just havent developed enough.
thats why i said not to start the debate lol was a massive topic at the time ,if you were there you would know how heated it got.either way lets just try and focus on keeping on the topic. |
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CentricMalteser85
Banned Again
United Kingdom
131 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 00:00:21
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Excuse isnt this a personal attack with the words "wrong again" at the bottom when also another member had stated a similar thing.
As quoted here
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
1 rat pup is the sameish as 1 large mouse, so 3 is way too much! Most adult corns only get fed 1 large mouse.
What was said to me, oh personal attacks not needed and comments like "wrong again" which incites arguing is not needed, ok mikey?!
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
Nicky is right
3 rat pups for a 3ft corn in one feeding period is overdoing especially since rats also have a higher fat content that mice
I have a 4ft corn and he takes 1 large mouse, once every 7 - 10 days which is sufficient
the regurge is because you are feeding him TOO MUCH, and snakes are like food dustbins and they dont have the capacity to think about the consequences.
what is worrying is not only you feedin 3 rat pups at a time but sometimes every 7 days, so in 2 weeks he could have potentially eaten what mine would eat in a month and a half!
advice - cut the feeding down to one large mouse every 7-10 days, avoid feeding during shedding, avoid handling for 72 hours after feeding
quote:
Originally posted by nickyff
i don't know not nuffin not really, but- isnt 3x rat pups rather a lot for a 3ft snake? ive got what were called 'rat weaners' in my freezer just sitting there, cos punkin (3ft and about 6-8 inches ish) wouldnt touch them..(not much bigger but I think they smell too different from his preferred jumbo mousies)
hm- not really added anything to what gmac said....
(removes oar)
Originally posted by mikerichards
^^^^ Wrong as normal
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Edited by - CentricMalteser85 on 07/02/2012 00:08:35 |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 00:07:10
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Tony, could you weigh your rats for me please. See there is a chart on the net showing the rat sizes but when I buy rat pups at my reptile shop they are tiny little things, basically when they are just starting to get fur so to avoid any confusion as to the amount of food that is been fed just check the weight or if you dont have scales measure the rat minus the tail to get an idea of the size.
I would think rather than the amount of food by mass been an isssue its probably going to be the queue of rats on the way to been digested, they dont sit in the stomach in one lump they will queue one after the next. Also if its repeated regurges it may require some time to settle the stomach so I would recommend a few weeks without any food. Also a good thing to do is just triple check your temperatures, make sure everything is as it should be, if you can rule that out it makes finding the cause a little easier. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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smiffy89
Hatchling
United Kingdom
342 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 00:23:42
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centric email a mod for petes sake if you have an issue,dont keep hijacking threads im sick of seeing your name in arguments.
take a soddin chill pill |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 00:41:09
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locking another thread as seems we cant have a health thread now.
My apologies to Tony81 |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 19:12:49
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seen as the poblem has resolved (on the forum) I shall reopen this one.
I also googled rat pups but couldnt be bothered reading any of the 20billion million hits, i decided to look in the freeser instead. I dont have a single rat pup bigger than a small mouse :D |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 19:51:44
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I found this picture of Spot 'cuddling' a rat pup in July 2011, now I dont know much about the rat in question, he didnt hang around fto leave me his vital statistics but I do know at this time Spot was 96 Grams in June when I started giving him them as they were too small for a Boa.
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Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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nickyff
Yearling
507 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 02:23:57
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so a pup and a wiener aren't the same thing then?
I've noticed significant variation in the size of 'large' mice depending on where i buy them from- one of the shops I use only stocks pinks, fuzzies, 'small'mice, 'large' mice and then they go straight to these rat wiener thingies I've got, which as mentioned are still taking up freezer space- some of them are twice the size of what that particular shop calls a 'large' mouse..it's a big difference.
so then I went to P@H and got some 'jumbo' mice which are a tad smaller/about the same size as the rat wieners from the first shop..
I've never seen rat pups listed in any of the shops I go to- I assumed it was just a different name for the same thing..
I remember when sharon was on pinkies that they varied a LOT as well- within the same tub I would often find thAt the smallest pink would be less than half the size of the biggest one.
when it's all new to you, and you worry about doing things right, inconsistency in food sizes can be very confusing!!
oh! *lightbulb* ...-might it actually be 'weaner'?? ie the ratlet has been weaned onto solid food? |
and you thought there was no such thing as a stupid question....
1.2.0 corns: captain haddock, sharon the tiddler and Darling Debbie. plus 0.2.0 cali kings: spot and Numpty... not forgetting the delightful Miss Lovely-Gonzalez-La-Poop apricot pueblan milk snake, and we all miss the Lodger who thought he was a cobra....
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2012 : 08:02:02
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| Sorry guys, I know that small weaners rats are the same sort of size as jumbos so presumed the next size down for rats would be the same as large and by looking at the chart on here http://i37.tinypic.com/jtw3zs.jpg, there doing it by weight, guessing he must get big rat pups then or maybe they meant fluff or has different names of stuff or something? I've never seen rat pinkies in my life. |
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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Sick snake, advice please
