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Helsbels
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
20 Posts |
 Posted - 23/01/2012 : 13:16:04
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Hello Everyone, I have only been on the forum a week but I wanted to share my experience I had on the weekend when buying a new snake from a shop called *Name removed* in Brighton. The shop supposedly calls itself a 'specialist Herpetological Supply shop', which I foolishly felt was a step up from a standard pet shop (and therefore good levels of care and advice). I checked it out online and could find no bad reviews. How wrong I was! I went with my boyfriend to buy our new corn there on the weekend. I had previously spoken to the proprietor on the phone and told him that we were coming in to view the young corns he had for sale. He was overly keen to sell us a 6 month old Butter corn, when we has specifically asked to see some Anerys that were listed in stock. The Butter was very friendly and docile, and we loved him straight away. However, when we viewed all the other snakes including the Anerys, they seems absolutely terrified, I've never seen snakes looking so skittish. I looked at an adult for sale in a corner viv and noticed a scar along it's side. None of the snakes had any feeding or shedding records. Normally, I would not have bought a snake at this point, due to the lack of records. I asked about feeding and was given some glossed over reply telling me that they were feeding fine and 'not to worry about the feeding records'. Whilst we were talking about feeding I mentioned feeding the snake in a rub, and the proprietor was very indignant that I shouldn't bother and all of his snakes are fed on substrate, 'Nah that's a load of rubbish' he said about feeding them in a RUB!. I argued with him that I was sure it was not good for the snake to be fed on substrate, and he spoke to me like I was an idiot, saying I should never take them ou to feed them! (BTW I will never be feeding my snakes on substrate!). Anyway, by this time I was so concerned about the welfare of the reptiles in there that I decided to buy the Butter because I did not want him staying in that shop with an uncertain future. I went to pay, and he tried to charge me over £90 for a 6 month old Butter!!! I told him that I wasn't a mug, that I was completely aware of how much a Butter should cost £50- 55, and that i wasn't prepared to pay. He told me that he would come down to £80, then eventually I knocked him down to £70. He point blank refused to go any lower, and I ended up givig him the £70 just to get out of there and take the snake with us. Whe we got home we were worried that our new snake, (now called Butters) had not been fed, so before we put him in the viv to settle in we put him in the rub and gave him a pinkie which he took straight out of the tongs and ate in less than 5 seconds. He must have been so hungry, bless him!!
In a nutshell, *Name removed* sell reptiles at vastly over-inflated prices, give out advice that could potentially be lethal to their livestock, do not keep records on their snakes and I am dubious about the quality of care their reptiles are receiving. Please, please avoid this place if you live in the east Sussex area.
**Butters our new corn seems to be doing very well considering, he is very active and actually comes up to the glass to check us out when we walk past. He is setling in this week but I will post pictures of our very pricey little baby when we handle him for the first time next week**
***edited by K |
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Redshift Spec
Hatchling
379 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 13:54:56
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| If its that bad give the RSPCA a call. Detail times, dates and exactly what you saw. |
Frank (Amel Corn 1.0)
Felicity (Flick) (Normal Het Albino BCI 0.1)
Jack (Sunglow BCI 1.0)
Maisie (Hypo het Albino BCI 0.1)
Silver (Snow Corn 0.1)
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Katie.Dublin
Sub Adult
Ireland
1560 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 14:33:11
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Well.... A lot of places over price corns so I wouldn't be calling the RSPCA over that! Also i've come across a few shops that don't keep feeding records, It's not the be all and end all of snake keeping in MY opinion.
Obviously it's important to know whether or not they are eating regularly but maybe he was telling the truth when he said they were all feeding fine! As regards the snake's being flighty and jittery, hatchies are all the same, it's part of the fun of getting a new snake to get it used to handling!
I do agree with you that it's not ideal to feed on substrate but again In MY opinion it doesn't warrant a WARNING about the shop! I usually just throw down a bit of kitchen roll but sometimes my snakes drag their dinner onto the substrate. You're lucky that the butter you bought ate straight away, usually you should leave them for a week to settle when you buy them. Corns are considered opportunistic feeders in that they eat when they get the chance, i'm convinced mine would eat every day if it was offered!
Also, if the shop really WAS that bad, you gave the chap exactly what he wanted by buying the the butter that he was pushing on you!
I'm sorry if it seems like i'm picking apart your post but I dunno if you're being fair in badmouthing the shop after one visit. Then again, I wasn't there. |
     
0.1 normal (Miami) - Hugo
0.1 hypo Motley - Spunky
0.1 MBK - Tequila. RIP
Horses, bearded dragons, a red tailed boa constrictor, a tortoise, a cat and a dog |
Edited by - Katie.Dublin on 23/01/2012 14:39:44 |
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Ammerz
Hatchling
United Kingdom
168 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 15:39:12
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Most hatchlings are skittish due to them not being used to being handled. This isn't a bad sign. In fact I'd be more worried about getting a quite docile hatchling as I would be inclined to think that it was of poor health.
Feeding in viv or in rubs is a personal choice, there are pros and cons to both. Keeping records isn't essential, it just makes it easier when your keeping large numbers of snakes.
I don't think over pricing snakes is actually a bad thing. In my opinion it put people off buying a snake on a whim. If you want to pay a fair price for a corn and see feeding records I suggest you go to a breeder rather than a pet shop.
At the end of the day pet shops are only temporary homes for these animals and it is unlikely for them to be at the same high standard some one keeping them at home would be. I know I didn't see the shop and it may have truly been terrible, but from what you've said it doesnt sound worth completely avoiding a bad mouthing. |
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Kehhlyr
ǝʞɐɔ sǝʌoן
United Kingdom
8173 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 15:53:59
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Just had to remove the name of theshop I'm afraid.
Although in some ways many will agree with your post (me partially as well), we unfortunately do not have any finacial backing to allow the risk of people to try to claim slander or libel.
Aside from naming the specific shop in question, then please continue this thread as it's always nice to hear about recommended or not recommended reptile shops, I can only say that if people were in that area and wanted to know specifically what shop it was then they could probably get hold of you another way to get confirmation of a name. 
-=K |
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Okeetee Mick
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2308 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 17:11:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ammerz
Most hatchlings are skittish due to them not being used to being handled. This isn't a bad sign. In fact I'd be more worried about getting a quite docile hatchling as I would be inclined to think that it was of poor health.
Feeding in viv or in rubs is a personal choice, there are pros and cons to both. Keeping records isn't essential, it just makes it easier when your keeping large numbers of snakes.
I don't think over pricing snakes is actually a bad thing. In my opinion it put people off buying a snake on a whim. If you want to pay a fair price for a corn and see feeding records I suggest you go to a breeder rather than a pet shop.
At the end of the day pet shops are only temporary homes for these animals and it is unlikely for them to be at the same high standard some one keeping them at home would be. I know I didn't see the shop and it may have truly been terrible, but from what you've said it doesnt sound worth completely avoiding a bad mouthing.
Whilst agreeing with most of your post I find it difficult to see the pros of feeding snakes in their vivs, I do appreciate it is all down to personal choice and that on occasions time is of the essence but snakes do not need feeding on a rigid regime therefore the only pro I can see is for the owner. |
0.1.0 Okeetee (Sookie) 0.1.0 Powder (Luna) 0.1.0 Bloodred (Arlene) 0.1.0 Caramel Stripe (Tara)
0.1.0 Ghost (Crystal) 0.1.0 Caramel (Jessica) 0.1.0 Lavender Stripe (Portia) 1.0.0 Platinum (Godric)
0.1.0 Thayers King (Lettie Mae) 0.1.0 Albino Blairs King (Lorena) 0.1.0 Russian Ratsnakes (Pam)
0.1.0 Korean Ratsnake (Katerina) 1.0.0 Russian Ratsnake (Lafayette)
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CentricMalteser85
Banned Again
United Kingdom
131 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 17:39:09
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RSPCA would only get involved if a complaint was made.
All complaints they normally send out an officer, as a surprise visit who will look through.
They will put in place steps, for instance food records to be accurately checked.
they revisit, if steps in place are breached they could lose their licence to sell reptiles, be heavily fined and/or court.
as for feeding on aspen, this is down to personal choice and experience. I use a seperate rub or table to feed them on to avoid ingestion of substrate
others feed on substrate, but in my opinion I avoid this just as precuation
also butter corns are beautiful (i have one named cyril)
at home make sure no handling for 7 days, and no handling for 48 hours to 72 hours after feed
and I personally avoid handling during shedding stage unless its to assist shedding, ie skin that has not come of the tail
as for pricing it is down to the individual, and unfortunately it's not like an electronic products with RRP (recommended retail price) and he could easily argue, "although it's butter it's het for this, that and the other"
glad you got the butter, but anerys make beautiful corns too, and i trust u may be investing in another one lol |
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Redshift Spec
Hatchling
379 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 17:46:03
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| When I mentioned the RSPCA I was suggesting it about the snake with a scar down its side. If there was anything fishy going on there is no harm in getting the shop checked out |
Frank (Amel Corn 1.0)
Felicity (Flick) (Normal Het Albino BCI 0.1)
Jack (Sunglow BCI 1.0)
Maisie (Hypo het Albino BCI 0.1)
Silver (Snow Corn 0.1)
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Spreebok
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1135 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:08:14
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It's a scar though, not an open/recent wound. It could have been an accident, or is in the shop to be rehomed maybe?
I wouldn't call the rscpa for the info given. If the snakes were left unheated, in dirty tubs/vivs, and looked lethargic, I would call. The fact that the hatchlings were skittish and wiggly is a good thing, they're healthy and in good enough mind to try and run from a potential predator.
And yeah, he could be considered overpriced, but that's the price you pay in some places. Some places charge £65 for normals, my local charges £25 for them.
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:16:32
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quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
RSPCA would only get involved if a complaint was made.
All complaints they normally send out an officer, as a surprise visit who will look through.
No, it takes billions of complaints, and even then they may not look. They don't care unelss its going to get media attention and they can sue. Indivuals care but they can't act out the guide lines. It's the local council you talk to if you have problems, who will the look round and decide if futhuur action needs to be taken.
You may want to wedge something ionbetween the viv doors so snakie doens't escape the viv. |
   
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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kelfezond
Snake Mite
42 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:16:32
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| If it's a big shop it'll take an awfully long time to feed every corn in a rub, most shops i've been to all feed on substrate |
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CentricMalteser85
Banned Again
United Kingdom
131 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:20:50
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I'm speaking from personal experience of dealing with a pet store where there was an ill python, and where hatchlings being fed half a pinky
2 days later they had visit, measures put in place, python took away
python never been returned to them, and they had monthly check ups on steps put in place,
since new steps, pet shop got new set up etc and everything is perfect (apart from some of the staffs knowledge)
Local council will revoke licencing based on info and investigation by RSPCA
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
RSPCA would only get involved if a complaint was made.
All complaints they normally send out an officer, as a surprise visit who will look through.
No, it takes billions of complaints, and even then they may not look. They don't care unelss its going to get media attention and they can sue. Indivuals care but they can't act out the guide lines. It's the local council you talk to if you have problems, who will the look round and decide if futhuur action needs to be taken.
You may want to wedge something ionbetween the viv doors so snakie doens't escape the viv.
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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:22:09
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I really am failing to see a problem.
You bought a healthy, friendly snake from a guy who was willing to go lower on price (something a lot of shops wouldn't even entertain) that is seemingly a good feeder. I'd be pretty pleased...
Feeding records are not a must- yeah, it might be nice and reassuring to have them, but they can easily be faked and therefore mean nothing. I don't think I've ever requested, nor recieved feeding records with any shop-bought snakes, and a fair few of my privately bought snakes haven't had them either.
Feeding in the viv is, as mentioned, personal choice- I feed all mine in their tubs or vivs, on their substrate, a product called Megazorb. Apart from ensuring I feed dry prey items, I take no other major precautions against substrate ingestion. Feeding in a separate tub *can* cause stress, and does nothing to reduce the risk of "feeding-aggression", something I feel is total nonsense. I have been at the recieving end of food related bites with a corn that was fed in a tub- this stopped completely when I started feeding said snake in it's viv. I also have a couple of sub-adults that, let me assure you, would become very stressed and snappy with being moved about to feed.
Price wise, you paid less than most shops would charge- £90+, although steep, is average for shop bought morphs. Shops have to make decent profits, or they don't survive.
Food wise, be glad you bought a good feeder- the fact it struck and ate so quick in no way means that it was starving hungry.
The snake with a scar may have been a rescue- did you ask?
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9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:24:21
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quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
I'm speaking from personal experience of dealing with a pet store where there was an ill python, and where hatchlings being fed half a pinky
2 days later they had visit, measures put in place, python took away
python never been returned to them, and they had monthly check ups on steps put in place,
since new steps, pet shop got new set up etc and everything is perfect (apart from some of the staffs knowledge)
Local council will revoke licencing based on info and investigation by RSPCA
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
RSPCA would only get involved if a complaint was made.
All complaints they normally send out an officer, as a surprise visit who will look through.
No, it takes billions of complaints, and even then they may not look. They don't care unelss its going to get media attention and they can sue. Indivuals care but they can't act out the guide lines. It's the local council you talk to if you have problems, who will the look round and decide if futhuur action needs to be taken.
You may want to wedge something ionbetween the viv doors so snakie doens't escape the viv.
I was speaking from experience, they don't give a ****e and the council is the best option. They wouldn't just tale a python away if that was the case, they would have taken more animals or closed the shop down and seized the animals pending further investigation if the RSPCA were involved as they have to work with the police and the law. |
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:34:44
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i don't see anything wrong with what you've reported.
1 - Terrified snakes. Not terrified, just defensive which is natural behaviour especially for younger snakes
2 - Scar - That could have happened at any time, not necessarily in the shop
3 - Records - not many shops keep records because the animals are just 'passing through' and usually don't stay for so long. I myself don't keep any records.
4 - Feeding on substrate - If the substrate is suitable for the age and size of the snake then I don't see a problem. All mine are fed on substrate.
5 - Price - There is no set price for any animal, the seller can charge what he likes. Don't forget a shops prices will be higher because they have overheads to cover.
6 - 'Starving snake' - Just because a snake takes food immediately and swallows it quickly does not mean it is starving. It is an indication of a good and healthy feeder. If it swallowed very fast then maybe you fed it something too small for its needs?
If you are concerned about their welfare then you need to be in touch with your local councils licensing department but to be honest I really don't think they will find anything wrong, and the RSPCA will probably just laugh at you. |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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Mort13
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5599 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:58:25
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I have to agree with whats been said,no offence.
The wildest,flightiest corn I've had was from a very reputable breeder,its took me a couple of months to calm him down. Its a hatchlings instinct to try and get away,they don't know you're not a predator.
I've been in a few pet shops that have has skinny snakes,or snakes with injuries and these have been rescues,you can't make a complaint based on assumption.
My local pet shop sells normals for £45,shops always tend to charge more due to overheads etc and to be honest I don't know of many that bother with records. Yes,they should but a lot don't.
The majority of my collection are fed in a tub,but I have a few that its not suitable for so they get fed in their enclosure. A lot of shops wouldn't have the time to get every single animal out for feeding.
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3.1.0 Corn snakes, 1.0.0 T-Albino Cape House Snake, 0.1.0 Western Hognose,
1.0.0 MBK, 0.1.0 Childrens Python, 1.0.0 Nicaraguan Dwarf Boas
0.0.1 Occelated Skink, 1.0.0 Leopard Gecko, 1.0.3 Tarantulas, 0.0.2 Damon diadema
1.0.0 C0ckatiel,
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Helsbels
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
20 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 19:58:34
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Sorry I didn't realise that putting the name down would cause problems, so I apologise. I will stick by what I said though, that I do not believe he should be marking up snakes so high (even though he can do what he likes and there is no law against it). He was trying it on to make more money. Also I have read so many things, especially on this forum, where people are very adamant that snakes should not be fed on their substrate. People seem to feel very strongly about it. In almost every care sheet I have read it states that you should not buy a snake without a feeding/ shedding record.
The whole experience was not very nice, the proprietor spoke to me as if I was stupid, laughing at me and completely dismissing me out of turn when I mentioned feeding him a rub, and on that basis I think that if you are looking to buy a first snake then it would be a good idea to give the place a wide berth. I felt uncomfortable. I do appreciate everyone's opinions, and I understand what you are saying about younger snakes being skittish. However, I wouldn't really want anyone else to have a similar experience to the one I had, when it should have been an exciting and fun afternoon. |
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Georgina
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2382 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 20:09:34
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if you were selling something, you would want to get the best price for it? if you 100% belived something was right (i.e feeding on substrate) you would make sure people knew that was your opinion. the substrate feeding thing is similar to the cohab thing, its a choice that we as keepers decide and for rep shops to advise, and thats all he did, he gave you his opinion as a keeper what he feels is right. i think that you need to be carful slating rep shops when yourself do not know enough on the topic. also snakes get injure just as any other animal, to slate the owner is like say a mother is a bad mother if their child fell over and bumped his head, these things happen and more than likley didnt happen at the shop. i originally thought a couple of the shops near me were in the wrong and not caring properly but its all prefernce and variations of the same.
(not meany to sound full of it)
:) |
1.0 western hognose (hero)
1.0 phantom reverse pin dal brindle crested gecko (goyle)
0.2 red dal red harly (sprite) 99% full pin Harley crested gecko (TuLong)
0.0.3 miomantis paykullii
0.0.3 Bombina orientalis (oriental fire bellied toad)
0.3 fancy mice (snap, crackle and pop)
1.0 yorkshire terrier (jasper)
2.1 cats (echo, shadow and pokey) |
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Spreebok
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1135 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 20:13:28
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Sounds more like your upset because the guy was a bit of a tool, but it doesn't mean he shouldn't be selling.
But I don't blame you for being upset considering his behaviour, I agree, buying a new wiggler should be fun and exciting, hence why I get all my wigglers from my local (Exeter Exotics). Ladies there are fab, and whilst I pay a bit more than from a breeder, the service, friendly attitude and happiness to have a good old chat keeps me going back! Not to mention they're always happy to get anything out for me to have a cuddle with! That's the kind of experience it should be! :) |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 20:22:35
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| You still bought from him so he has no incentive to amend his selling techniques. Venting on a forum after the fact is not going to help anything, vote with your feet, walk away. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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Georgina
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2382 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 20:23:51
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quote:
Originally posted by lotabob
You still bought from him so he has no incentive to amend his selling techniques. Venting on a forum after the fact is not going to help anything, vote with your feet, walk away.
here here |
1.0 western hognose (hero)
1.0 phantom reverse pin dal brindle crested gecko (goyle)
0.2 red dal red harly (sprite) 99% full pin Harley crested gecko (TuLong)
0.0.3 miomantis paykullii
0.0.3 Bombina orientalis (oriental fire bellied toad)
0.3 fancy mice (snap, crackle and pop)
1.0 yorkshire terrier (jasper)
2.1 cats (echo, shadow and pokey) |
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WARNING- *Name removed* Brighton
