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Jake_The_Snake
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2011 : 22:49:44
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I really am at my wit's end.
We've had Jake, a sub adult corn snake (about 3' long) since the beginning of September, she is our first ever snake.
She's always been a bit of a slow feeder - she always takes the food eventually but spends aaaaaaaaaages sniffing it first and occasionally we have to leave it on the hide and leave the room for 10 minutes.
She got really funny about eating the small mice (about 2.5" long) her seller recommended she had. We found another reputable supplier that did smaller mice and got her a few of those but she still wasn't keen, but we also got her some big fuzzies and discovered that she takes them much better. She also has developed a habit over the past couple of months of really sniffing her food's rear end then eating it backwards, so we thought it was possibly safer to stick with something a bit smaller for her for now.
Last weekend (3rd/4th Dec) we gave her viv a full clean and scrub out on the Saturday morning, then fed her 2 large-ish fuzzies on the Sunday evening. By Monday evening she had regurgitated them both.
We assumed we had just stressed her by feeding so soon after the change so left her for a week, only going in to do water changes and tried her again yesterday with one very small fuzzy. She took it readily but backwards, but it was regurgitated again this evening.
Her habitat:
She lives in a 3' viv in my bedroom (which doesn't have a huge amount of traffic but I have quieter rooms if that would help) with aspen bedding. As far as I know she has never ingested any aspen. She has a cork hide at either end and a big water bowl in the middle that is emptied, wiped out and refilled daily.
She has a heat mat connected to a stat covering about 1/3 of the base. My stat is set to 30C and I also have a dual ended digital thermometer. One of the probes is elastic-banded to the stat and so I am sure that her hot side cycles between 28.5 and 30, her cold side between 19 and 22 depending on the central heating.
I cannot think what is suddenly making her regurgitate when we have finally found something that she is happy to eat readily.
I am so so worried about her, I think I will give a specialist vet a call tomorrow but would like your opinions as to what could be causing it, what I should do and what the vet is likely to do about it.
I am so scared of losing her, I will be very very grateful for any replies.
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kdlang
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3556 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2011 : 23:20:21
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http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7792
Sorry to hear you are having this worry. My first thoughts would be to double check your temperatures after the clean up. Iv found they can fluctuate for a couple of days after everything has been disturbed.
Then I would make sure you leave her for at least 10 days, maybe even 14, before you try her again, just to make sure her stomach juices have returned to normal again.
What did you use for cleaning out the viv? |
4.1.0 corns - Izzy (Carolina) Alice (Amel) Peanut (Butter Motley) Swayze (Ghost) Carmellia (Butter Motley)
0.1.0 cat - Kizzy
1.0.0 Dog - Dobbie
Location - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
www.support-dogs.org.uk |
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Jake_The_Snake
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2011 : 23:28:41
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Thank you so much for your reply,
I cleaned it with some spray disinfectant that I got from Pets at Home and use for disinfecting my guinea pig cages. I didn't use a huge amount and rinsed it out thoroughly but do you think this could be a possible reason? |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2011 : 23:46:38
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If it doesn't safe reptile safe its probably best to not use it in my opinion. What is it exactly?
Another thing/the first thing that I thought is if its regurging since the clean out its probably quite likely that your temperatures aren't right, something has changed in there and the temps in the hot end are either far too hot (the probes have moved away from the mat) for it to be used for digestion so staying in the cold end and the cold end is too cold for digestion and a snake will know this and regurgitate its meal, if its too cold in the hot end (the stat was turned down or the probes are now closer to the mat than before) then there is nowhere warm to digest resulting in a regurge.
Make sure your probes are correctly positioned and touching the heat mat if that's your heat source. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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ScalySituation
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5292 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 07:05:29
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| quick Q, can corns decide to regurge or is it a natural reflex?? |
1.0.0 Butter motley corn (Sheldon)
0.1.0 Caramel Corn (Maggie)
0.1.0 Caramel motley corn (Echo)
1.0.0 Cat (Angus)
1 mealworm colony
RIP Skye x
Sleep well Sonny, Mummy loves you xx
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ozziesmum
Yearling
United Kingdom
736 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 09:38:00
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| Custard has had a couple of regured meals for no apparent reason in the last 11 months, I always leave her well alone for 14 days just spot clean and change her water daily, I always add reptoboost to it as well. |
Jane.
   
Oscar Black Lab, Saffron, Merlin and Mischief the cats, assorted fish, Rhubarb & Custard the corns, Tuppence the Tortoise, Tripod the Leopard Gecko.
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Jake_The_Snake
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 14:09:10
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Thank you all so much, you have all been really helpful.
I have decided on a course of action:
1) I have already double and triple checked her temperatures, they seem ok (cycling between 28.5 and 30.1's ok, right?)
2) I am giving her another total clean, washing down her viv really thoroughly to remove all traces of the disinfectant I used and replacing it with fresh aspen.
3)Check the probe positioning and temperatures again after the cleanout.
4) I'll leave it best part of 2 weeks before trying to feed her again.
5) I've ordered some reptoboost, when that arrives I'll put it in her water (and on the fuzzy?)
She's looking a little thin but otherwise happy, I got her out for 2 minutes last night just because I wanted to double check along her length for any lumps and bumps, check her breathing and her general demenour. I know I probably shouldn't have done but she is very tame and I don't think it will have stressed her that much.
If she does it again she gets to go to the vets I think, I didn't want to take her lightly because it's quite a long drive and will do more harm than good if there's no definite symptoms and I don't have a poo sample for them to check.
Anything I've missed? |
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scottishbluebird
it is all my fault
United Kingdom
8403 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 16:58:20
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| Hope all goes well xx |
     
0.1.0 Corn - Kellogs
1.0.0 Hognose - Storm
0.1.0 Staffy - Lyla
1.0.0 Spaffy(staffy x springer)-Spyro
1.0.0 Ferret - Peanut R.I.P
0.1.0 Crestie - Fudge. Wish List - Pygmy hedgehog. Tropiocolotes |
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ozziesmum
Yearling
United Kingdom
736 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2011 : 19:36:34
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| Try not to stress too much just starve for 14 days to give the tummy time to settle, fresh water with reptoboost every day and then give offer a smaller mouse than usual. |
Jane.
Oscar Black Lab, Saffron, Merlin and Mischief the cats, assorted fish, Rhubarb & Custard the corns, Tuppence the Tortoise, Tripod the Leopard Gecko.
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 14/12/2011 : 02:48:16
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I wouldn't worry about getting her out for a general health check, that is a good idea, there isn't a vast amount you can tell from external inspection but like you say a lump or bump check won't do any harm.
You've checked your temperatures so you can just about rule that out as the problem for now. Next thing is how are you defrosting your mouse? The reason I ask is if its still frozen in the middle the snake will have to regurgitate it as ice and cold blooded animals don't mix well.
Another one is she could just be stressy and not feeling secure in her viv, do you have any artifical foliage in for cover and are the hides good for hiding? Are there any lights in or around the viv on all the time or vibrations from speakers, fish tanks, TV's etc?
There are lots of non medical reasons for a regurge but if you can go through the reasons and think there shouldn't be a problem then for peace of mind you would be as well to at least speak to a specialist exotic animal vet.
I personally wouldn't use reptoboost every day, a very thirsty or dehydrated snake will drink anything in front of it but your snake won't be dehydrated I dont think (you can check, give the skin a gentle pinch to raise it and when you let go it should drop; to normal straight away if it stays up its dehydrated) and it may sense something in his water and only drink a tiny amount (not sure how possible that is but worth considering as they have a far better sense of smell than us and then cheat with the whole jacobs whatnots too) which is good for the boost but wont be the glugging down a load of water like I've seen my lot do so I'd alternate between just clean fresh water and water with reptoboost to cover all the bases.
At this stage though just give it the 14 days until the next feed have a look at anything that comes out the back, is it overly runny, funny colour etc, all worth noting just in case you need to take a trip to the vets. Keep handling to a minimum/not at all, have a look at the set up, think like a snake, is it a safe environment in their eyes and fingers crossed the next feed will be taken and not be given back. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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Jake_The_Snake
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
Posted - 15/12/2011 : 14:04:15
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Thank you all :)
Lotabob that is a really helpful post, thank you for the warning re reptoboost. What I was kind of thinking of doing was giving her 2 water bowls - one with reptoboost and one without - so that she can choose.
But I might just do alternate days of plain/treated water.
The fuzzy was defrosted for about 9 hours, but I might leave it a little longer just to make sure.
Last question - when you treat a mouse with reptoboost do you literally just 'dust' it? Does it make it smell different to the snake? |
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nickyff
Yearling
507 Posts |
Posted - 17/12/2011 : 02:44:56
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9 hours????? I defrost mine in warm water. it takes 5 minutes, then I serve them up still warm. (dried on a bit of kitchen roll)
I wonder if after 9 hours yr pinkie/fuzzies whatever might be starting to go a bit nasty?
yr snake might be having a bacterial tummy-upset...??
I'm no expert, just a thought.
ps- I've been told by the bloke at my local rep shop that any isotonic sports drink will do everything reptoboost does at a fraction of the price.
hope yr snake takes next meal successfully after 10 days or so to settle. I've been through this worry- you have every sympathy from me.
best of luck |
and you thought there was no such thing as a stupid question....
1.2.0 corns: captain haddock, sharon the tiddler and Darling Debbie. plus 0.2.0 cali kings: spot and Numpty... not forgetting the delightful Miss Lovely-Gonzalez-La-Poop apricot pueblan milk snake, and we all miss the Lodger who thought he was a cobra....
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thistle
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1757 Posts |
Posted - 18/12/2011 : 23:32:06
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| A fuzzy doesn't take anywhere near that time to defrost an hour or 2 should be plenty, or, as nickyff said, they can be defrosted in warm water in a few minutes. |
2.0.0 Dogs (westie Angus, shih tzu Archie)
0.5.0 African Pygmy Hedgehogs (Harriet, Amelia, Matilda, Jemima, Maisie) RIP Hector
0.4.0 Guinea Pigs (Isobel, Effy, Mrs Mack & Sheila)
1.0.0 Lutino C0ckatiel (Sammy)
3.0.0 Corn Snakes - CB10 Amel (Barnaby), CB11 Anery Lavender (Bailey), CB10 Caramel Motley (Bradley)
0.1.0 CB11 Western Hognose Snake (Maggie) |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 21/12/2011 : 00:22:45
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quote:
Originally posted by thistle
they can be defrosted in warm water in a few minutes.
In my opinion you run a massive risk of the core of the mouse still been frozen doing that. Out for a few hours is the best way, 9 hours will definitely have it defrosted that's for sure.
Nickyff, it is true that Powerade solution can be used if you dont have reptoboost available but that's more to bathe the snake in it as they may be put off drinking it by its smell. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
Edited by - lotabob on 21/12/2011 00:23:22 |
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Mort13
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5599 Posts |
Posted - 21/12/2011 : 11:24:52
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With fuzzies I leave them to defrost naturally for a couple of hours in a warm room and then warm up in a bag in a mug of warm (not hot) water or place them on the fire surround. Although saying that,most of my snakes will feed without the prey item being warmed up.
Hope you get her feeding soon. |
      
3.1.0 Corn snakes, 1.0.0 T-Albino Cape House Snake, 0.1.0 Western Hognose,
1.0.0 MBK, 0.1.0 Childrens Python, 1.0.0 Nicaraguan Dwarf Boas
0.0.1 Occelated Skink, 1.0.0 Leopard Gecko, 1.0.3 Tarantulas, 0.0.2 Damon diadema
1.0.0 C0ckatiel,
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Spreebok
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1135 Posts |
Posted - 21/12/2011 : 19:49:15
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Anything from Medium Mice downwards are defrosted for an hour in lukewarm water and rolled about on kitchen roll, making sure to press down and make sure it's all squishy. Anything up I leave for at least a couple hours in water.
Also, dunno if it's been mentioned, but you say Jake is in a 3' viv? I know he's 3', but a couple of my yearlings are 3' and I wouldn't pop them in a 3' viv yet. Maybe try moving him down to something smaller, if possible considering he needs rest. It could start him eating and keeping it down, it could not, but it's always worth trying. |
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Jake_The_Snake
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
Posted - 21/12/2011 : 23:13:56
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Thank you all again, seriously you have been so much help I really appreciate it.
So...I have possibly been a little over-cautious with my fuzzy heating up times. I shall check the next one every half hour or so and as soon as it is thawed warm it up in a bag in warm water (I really like that idea).
Also, I cant see who the last poster was now I've started writing but re a smaller viv...
I did think about this but on the other hand since this is the cage she's used to will I not do more damage than good by moving and stressing her now? When I say she's 3' it was a rough guess, she's a few inches bigger than that I think, can stretch from one end of the viv to the other with wiggles in the middle.
And a general update-her behavior has gone back to completely normal following her latest change a week ago, she is moving regularly between her hides and seems bright...in fact she's coming out as soon as she hears me come home at night, think she's after some food!! She's had reptoboost in her water every other day but doesn't seem overly impressed with it.
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Jake_The_Snake
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
Posted - 26/12/2011 : 09:58:26
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Good news I think!
On Saturday night we gave her a pinky, immediately left the room and turned the light off so she didn't run around trying to get more and so far she has kept it down 
I'll feel happier once we get past the 48 hour mark and once I've had a poo out the other end but considering that the last 2 were regurged within 24 hours of feeding I am feeling quite happy.
She has been sooooo active in the last day or so though - every time she hears me come into the room she's straight out of her tank and up at the glass to say hello. Obviously this isn't ideal when she's just eaten but she does seem to have kept it down.
It's not the way she normally shows she's stressed (historically a stressed out Jakey just sits in her cold hide and doesn't come out) so I can only think that she's after something else to eat because she's lost a fair amount of weight.
Going to wait until probably Wednesday then all being well give another pinky.
Thank you all for your help, fingers crossed it's all uphill from now on :) |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 26/12/2011 : 15:25:07
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| Nice one. Fingers crossed that's it sorted. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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Please please help, repeated regurges...
