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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
 Posted - 01/04/2011 : 21:17:29
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Below is a post by Chris Newman, from the FBH. This basically regards new legislation that could see the banning of some of our most common and best loved pets. It is a serious matter and one that cannot be ignored. Please have a read.
Invasive Non-native Species Policy Discussions within the European Union
Dear all,
Discussions and preliminary consultations commenced midway through 2010 on the development of an EU policy on the issue of invasive or potentially invasive non-native (or alien) species – both plant and animal but from here onwards this summary will concentrate on animal-related concerns. Previous discussions had taken place between 2005-2010 but have become a lot more important because of the European
Union’s stated intent to enact some form of legislation on the issue as part of their commitments on biodiversity. A consultation – not well publicised – took place over the summer of 2010 and according to EU officials most respondents were British (both from the pro-keeping and pro-trade side and from the animal protectionist & animal rights side of the argument).
A stakeholder consultation meeting took place on 3rd September with attendance dominated by those opposed to animal-keeping and trade in animals. Although the legislation – likely to be either an EU Directive or Regulation – will consider aspects such as who pays for non-native species becoming established and how to eliminate or control species that have become invasive the biggest concern for animal keepers and animal traders is the area that will be covered by the Prevention Working Group.
The heavy area of dispute - not surprisingly – will be focused on whether the legislation should have white or black lists for import and for home possession/trade. Those opposed to animal keeping have strongly demanded the use of very restricted white lists (of species ‘proven’ by risk assessment not to present a potential invasive
species problem) with everything else banned. Those few on the Working Group supportive of animal keeping and trade have argued strongly in favour of a limited and focused black list that would require exemptions or licensing to import/keep/trade and everything else to be kept and traded.
It is clear that at least some Member States support the idea of the use of white lists which, if implimented, would be a disaster for those keeping and/or trading in non-native species. There are also several representatives of Member States who have indicated no great enthusiasm for white lists.
The other main threat – irrespective of whether white or black lists are used – is the EU’s consideration of whether or not the same lists should be used across all EU Member States or whether there could be separate lists by country or by biogeographic area. Having a single list for the entire EU would present keepers and traders with immense problems since clearly many more species could potentially become established in say the Canary Islands or Cyprus than could in Germany
or Finland. Hence a single unified list could easily see the prohibition of a species like the Corn Snake across all EU countries because it might be potentially invasive in southern European areas.
The pro-keeping side of the equation have secured two positions on the Prevention Working Group but it is very important that keepers organizations from countries other than the UK start to actively lobby their Governments (the animal rights groups in several EU Member States were represented at the 3rd September consultation meeting but, noticeably, not the representatives of the equivalent animal-keeping
organizations).
DG-Environment on behalf of the European Commission expects to pull-together the recommendation and option documents from the three Working Groups in the summer of 2011. The consolidated document will then be put out for public comment and any revisions made with the intent of a final recommended document to be presented to the European Commission and Council of Ministers in late 2011 with legislation being enacted sometime in 2012.
This is in my view the single greatest threat to the keeping of reptiles and amphibians within the European Union that has ever emerged. Unless we, keepers, participate and represent our interests we face a very uncertain future!
Regards,
Chris Newman
Federation of British Herpetologists
Reptile & Exotic Pet Trade association
Email: repta@btconnect.com
Tel: 0044 (0) 23 8044 0999
Mobile 0044 (0) 7897 692060
Development of an EU Strategy on Invasive Alien Species:
European Commission - Environment - Nature & Biodiversity |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
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Salazare Slytherin
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
20 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2011 : 22:32:22
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ah I see,well I missed this lol had to look twice for the general section.
what are everyones views on this? |
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Kehhlyr
ǝʞɐɔ sǝʌoן
United Kingdom
8173 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 05:42:54
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Doubt any legislation in regards keeping of snakes like corns would ever become illegal or licence required in this country purely because the massive amount of people arguing it would cause and the loss of earnings.
The simple fact of the pet trade keeping the species alive would be enough to win over any plans that try to get forced through in regards legislation about not keeping 'non-native' species in this country would be enough.
I think I read somewhere (although alcohol infused mind may be wrong) that cornsnakes would be an endangered species if the pet trade in them didn't exist.
Plus I wouldn't give 2 hoots what they decided in all honesty, I will keep whatever the hell is safe and safely within my abilities to keep. I don't care what some pencil pushing plonker of government sausage jockey says I can and cannot do. I will (as I have) do what the hell I want, surely that's the point of a democracy, the choice of the people.
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-=Kehhlyr - The Resident Loon
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Edited by - Kehhlyr on 02/04/2011 05:52:59 |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 20:37:08
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Lawl not going to happen. Maybe a restricted one? This wouldn't just include reptiles, by rights it should include birds, fish, dogs and kitties... well every animal so I don't see how it's going to happen or how they would enforce it! It would also mean many unemployed people too XD
Also do they been wild imports or like captive breed trading too? I really don't understand all the words lol! |
   
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 10:24:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Kehhlyr
Doubt any legislation in regards keeping of snakes like corns would ever become illegal or licence required in this country purely because the massive amount of people arguing it would cause and the loss of earnings.
Unfortunately, with opinions like "Lawl, its not going to happen", many keepers won't argue against it. |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 11:21:16
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There is a huge petition and lots of people signed it. I honestly cannot see them getting rid of MOST of the animals in the pet trade in Europe. Stopping new species as pets being brought to Britain yes, but not current ones. It would be stupid for them to pass this law as many pets would just be released in the wild, making the problem they are trying to prevent bigger. I cannot see them passing this law as everyone in Europe minius hippies and animal haters would oppose it.
Besides, can't do much about corns now, they are in the wild now, so definition on alien or not for them depends on people's views. |
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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Invalid User
Account Deactivated
United Kingdom
0 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 11:36:54
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Pitbulls are a banned breed in the uk, unless insured, tattooed and muzzled yet there are loads of them where I live, which are kept as pets without any insurance etc infact loads of them all over the country.
They can ban what they like, people will still have them. |
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Newbie
Yearling
950 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 14:33:42
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| I may be reading this wrong, but are they implying that any creature not native to Europe would be licensed or banned? Its like sta-ple has said, that would cover many breeds of animal and completely decimate the pet industry, not to mention the impact it would have on animals been dumped and abandoned by the less responsible owner. Madness! |
1.0.0 Carolina Motley Cornsnake - Vin, 0.1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Rio, 0.1.0 IJJ Carpet Python - Luna, 0.1.0 Dwarf Sunfire Reticulated Python - Helia, 1.0.0 Royal Python - Jasper, 0.1.0 Spaniel - Jess; RIP Gypsy - a beautiful girl through and through, 0.1.0 Rabbit - Binky, RIP Indy, Jan 2010 - Aug 2011, and Ace, Jan 2009 - Aug 2011 |
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herriotfan
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5853 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 17:24:02
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| Oh dear, what a shame some folk have nothing better to do........leave us snake/reptile owners alone!!!!! |
Husband....Very Understanding!!! (Phil)
Son & Daughter (Kevin & Carol)
Granddaughter (Eva)
3.4.0 Cornsnakes Amel (Sidney) Caramel Stripe (Sultan) Amber (Cleo) Carolina (Phoebe) Anery Motley Stripe (Penny) Snow (Lily) Caramel (Holmes)
1.2.0 Royal Pythons(Peeps, Pandora & Pepsi)
1.0.0 Hognose (Hudson)
2.1.0 Dogs (Dillon, Alfie, Ellie)
0.1.0 Senegal Parrot (Peanut)
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons (Bonnie & Clyde)
1.0.0 Crested Geckos (Echo)
0.2.1 Hermanns Tortoises (Ebbie, Rosie & Twiglet)
0.1.0 Guinea Pig (Dolly-Pipsqueak)
0.1.9 Tarantulas (Poppy, Gypsy, Bumble, Insey Winsey, Sonic, Cookie, Raven, Fudge, Titch & Sox)
??? Foster animals
Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 20:30:54
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Urban dictionary LAWL = Laughing a whole lot. (I didn't know)
I've had a scan read of the topic in question and its too generalised and full of holes to be even close to been a proposed law. I have to say though that any laws brought in to protect native species can only be a good thing, and better regulation of the pet trade again can only be a good thing. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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lee2308
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
3348 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 21:17:35
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| think you both have had your say so can we leave it now and get back on topic or it will be locked. |
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Edited by - lee2308 on 03/04/2011 21:17:54 |
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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 21:29:08
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quote:
Originally posted by lee2308
think you both have had your say so can we leave it now and get back on topic or it will be locked.
LOL, threatening to lock a topic I made for having a discussion on it.
Why not just delete off-topic posts rather than threatening to lock a very important piece of info? |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
Edited by - SexyBear77 on 03/04/2011 21:37:20 |
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lee2308
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
3348 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 16:13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by SexyBear77
quote:
Originally posted by lee2308
think you both have had your say so can we leave it now and get back on topic or it will be locked.
LOL, threatening to lock a topic I made for having a discussion on it.
Why not just delete off-topic posts rather than threatening to lock a very important piece of info?
Im not threatening to lock it for having a discusssion on the topic,the topic went way of course and would of been locked if it continued,thread has been tidied so lets stick to the subject. |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 18:30:32
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They said fox hunting couldn't and wouldn't be banned, look what happened.
If it does happen, it will be huge. Its not just non native reptiles that are being targetted, its everything from plants to insects to animals. I personally am a bit torn, on one hand it will be a good thing because it would help our own species to continue, on the other I may not be able to keep the species that I want to (but thats just me being selfish).
I would imagine a ban on breeding would be brought in, allowing existing animals to live out their lives. I really can't see anyone forcing a mass cull, it just wouldn't work.
If it does eventually happen, it looks like I'm off hunting for grass snakes to keep! :D |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 18:42:20
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| I guess even guniea pigs would be included in this as they are not native. Just can't get my head round it myself. |
Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
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Mort13
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5599 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 20:36:18
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Many rodents such as gerbils are just set free,theres a colony of ringneck parakeets established in this country somewhere (I can't quite remember where) and stick insects have colonised in the south. From what I read,bearing in mind I don't really know owt about white and black lists although I've had a good guess I think,this legislation will cover virtually all animals in the pet trade.
I really can't see how people would or could be forced to give animals up. Although breeding and importing,maybe and if so thats going to hit people hard,and the animals that are in collections in some cases. |
      
3.1.0 Corn snakes, 1.0.0 T-Albino Cape House Snake, 0.1.0 Western Hognose,
1.0.0 MBK, 0.1.0 Childrens Python, 1.0.0 Nicaraguan Dwarf Boas
0.0.1 Occelated Skink, 1.0.0 Leopard Gecko, 1.0.3 Tarantulas, 0.0.2 Damon diadema
1.0.0 C0ckatiel,
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Strawb
Egg
Germany
50 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 20:47:34
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Strict regulation of the pet trade is a very important thing and anything that protects our native flora and fauna from invasive species would also be welcomed. It is just a question of how the powers that be go about it. Quite often they have something on paper that is never enforced.
Wasn't an exotic animals act of some kind introduced in the early 70's, with the result being lots of exotic animals being released into the countryside because the owners weren't allowed to have them?
If stricter regulations for the pet trade have to be introduced, I would rather they targeted all the pet shops and chains that have no idea about the animals they sell. Plenty of people on this forum and others as well have tales to tell of poorly kept animals and clueless staff.
I'd also like to see vets trained in exotics. |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 20:56:32
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| Well most of Europe would stave :p meat animals although being labelled with British and European names you could argue are technically not English as they all originated from Asia... and there would be hardly any fruit of veg. |
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 21:38:16
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It would have to be weighted in the direction of control of invasive species and species specifically threatening to native species. Like for instance the grey squirrel, it has almost driven the red squirrel to near extinction, nobody considered the effect of micro organisms and immunity when they brought them over. The new law would have to assess each non native species scientifically and thoroughly and decide whether it is a direct threat and if it is it absolutely should be banned.
The place that all this falls flat on its face is MONEY, the money it would cost to study an animals impact on an eco system, the money it would cost to manage this process and then the money to regulate and enforce it. This country can't even afford swimming pools anymore! |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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A serious threat to the hobby.
