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Jennet
Hatchling
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
 Posted - 24/09/2008 : 22:07:22
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Hi folks
When we had Tango out of his viv tonight, my daughter thought she heard him make a sound like a squeek / wheeze type thing on a couple of occassions ( I think I heard a it once, but my hearing is not good ... an age thing y'know!! )
My question therefore is - is this what a respiritory tract infection sounds like in a snake and if we are only just beginning to hear it, are there steps we can take to help him get better without taking him to the vet, or do I need to look up a good reptile vet in our area already??....
Any tips gratefully received - as I don't want to be a worry wart... just prefer to take action sooner rather than later... especially if it may be something we are doing that may have caused it (only had him since 14th Sept - so still very new to this)
Thanks... Jennet |
www.thecornsake.co.uk
www.thehognosesnake.co.uk
www.theamphibian.co.uk |
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n/a
deleted
253 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2008 : 22:39:29
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Raise his temps in the viv by a couple of degrees and make sure he has fresh water day and night.
If you see any bubbles from his nose and/or mouth or if he lies with his mouth open (not just yawning) get him to the vet straight away.
Dont panic, as corns are hardy to some health problems and are tough, but an RI that is not caught early can be fatal, but mainly through neglet.
A course of antibiotics is normally the case, and mostly, Baytrill is the medicine.
I would give him no more than two days with raised temps and then id be off to the vet.
He may start to go off food and his shed pattern may also be affected. If so, Vet him.
Hope this helps for now, but others will no doubt add. |
1.0. Albino Burm
2.0. Carpet Python
1.0. Cali King
11.6. Corns
1.1. Royal Python
1.1. Thick Tail Geckos
1.0. Bearded Dragon
1.0. Spur Thighed Tort |
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gingerpony
Queen Bee
United Kingdom
10455 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2008 : 23:05:23
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Spruce had an RI and didn't seem to like the hide at the warm end of the viv. i removed the cold hide at the risk of stressing him out but it worked - he used the warm end and his breathing improved  |
cornsnakes, ratsnakes, bullsnakes, boas and day geckos
Location:Leeds/York/Selby area |
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Jennet
Hatchling
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 20:49:17
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Thanks for this... turned the viv up a little last night as advised, but it normally runs at 24 deg night and 30 deg days.... also, the probe is still in in the cool end where his previous owner kept it, so may well be hotter than this....
Anyhow... came home tonight and temp guage in warm end read over 100 (dunno what that is in centigrade!!).... next question - could overheating also cause resp infection do you think??
thanks Jennet |
www.thecornsake.co.uk
www.thehognosesnake.co.uk
www.theamphibian.co.uk |
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n/a
deleted
253 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 21:00:46
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Not really, unless it caused the humidity levels to rise and the snake breathed damp air, which may happen when you replace the substrate or the viv had a poor airflow.
Mainly caused by low temps and poor air quality.
Id also move the probe to the hot end. |
1.0. Albino Burm
2.0. Carpet Python
1.0. Cali King
11.6. Corns
1.1. Royal Python
1.1. Thick Tail Geckos
1.0. Bearded Dragon
1.0. Spur Thighed Tort |
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 21:03:21
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| Its measuring 100F on the cool side? poor snake. The temp needs to go down a bit! |
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Jennet
Hatchling
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 21:37:21
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No... temp 100 tonight in warm end after turning it up a couple of degs like suggested in earlier post... but probe situated in cool end... also temp guages are only cheap dial types, and from what I gather not very accurate.
Another thought just come to me... viv against wall at back where vents are, so maybe need to pull it forwards a little to allow better ventilation.... He seems fine othrwise, just that daugher noticed this occassional little noise.
Guy we had him off asked if we want to take him over to see him tomorrow and he will check him out, rather than go straight to vets and incur a bill when there may not be any need, and he will let us know if he feels he needs to go to vets,
As Tango is very new to us, and is not showing any of the other symtoms you have described (in fact I only heard this noise once, but my hearing is a bit off)I am wondering if its just me being a worry wart ... but will look at other factors you have mentioned now, and go and get him out and handle him for a while to check out how he is... (only just got in from work).
Thanks for responses.... J |
www.thecornsake.co.uk
www.thehognosesnake.co.uk
www.theamphibian.co.uk |
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n/a
deleted
253 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 21:58:53
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Jennet, Could he not come to you?
Make sure you can keep him warm when he travels.
Warm a tub before you go.
If i move any of mine, i have a spare mat that i can tape to the tubs and use a power inverter to convert 12v from a car cig socket to 230v to heat the mat.
A random google link, but one of these >>>> http://www.m-99.co.uk/Electrical/12v_Car_to_240v_Mains_Power_In/12v_car_to_240v_mains_power_in.html |
1.0. Albino Burm
2.0. Carpet Python
1.0. Cali King
11.6. Corns
1.1. Royal Python
1.1. Thick Tail Geckos
1.0. Bearded Dragon
1.0. Spur Thighed Tort |
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Jennet
Hatchling
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 23:04:31
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Thanks for that Mark... He does not drive, so easier for me to go to him. I have a converter, and brought a small viv from Wilko's the other day, so will nip to shop and get a small heat mat tomorrow night so will be equipped to take him over on Saturday.
When we had him out just, still the occassional noise ( I don't hear it, but daughter say's still same as last night - no more, no less). Also, when we let him roam a little on her bed, he lifted his tail and squirted.... watery stuff with very little substance... posted pics below.... is this wee? diarrhoea or do corn snakes musk??... thanks... J
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www.thecornsake.co.uk
www.thehognosesnake.co.uk
www.theamphibian.co.uk |
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n/a
deleted
253 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 23:37:27
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well he does not, by that, look dehydrated so he is drinking plenty, and maybe too much.
The sign of drinking too much, may indicate that he is trying to clear mucus from his throat, lungs or stomach.
Snakes have a type of mucus in their stomach to protect their own stomach from being digested from their own acid. (Ever wondered how a snake can digest an animal but not itself?)
That on the bed, looks like it is its own mucus, but its hard to tell to be honest and fair.
I would not take him to the guy you got him from, because he might just tell you that there is nothing wrong with him, and there may not be, but i would prefer a vet to tell me that.
He looks a chunky snake, in your sig, and he may not have been out and handled as much as now, so he may have picked up a `moving house` cold if his conditions have drastically changed.
I would take him to the vet Jennet.
Calcium and antibiotics. |
1.0. Albino Burm
2.0. Carpet Python
1.0. Cali King
11.6. Corns
1.1. Royal Python
1.1. Thick Tail Geckos
1.0. Bearded Dragon
1.0. Spur Thighed Tort |
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Blackecho
The Corn Snake Admin
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
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Jennet
Hatchling
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 19:33:36
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Thanks for all your advice... took him to vet tonight, who gave him a complete check over and said he could see no mucus, hear no bad breathing sounds (with stethescope) and laughed at the photo that I put up here... he explained that snakes wee is like a birds, with water and a 'core' substance, and that was what the yellow stuff was... so basically Tango 'wet the bed'
I was absolutely amazed how he prodded and kneaded him, and managed to get his mouth open etc... it was a revelation.
He spent a good 15/20 mins with us both checking him out and also asking us about his set up etc. He said that although there is no proof to substantiate his theory, he feels snakes should have some daylight, and we should mimic the pattern from that of north america, where they have shorter days in winter etc., so we would do as well to have a bulb that looks like the low energy ones some of you described in another post to me, and that we should also put a heat mat with a thermostatic control on part of the back of the viv,(not base) to give background heat at night, as well as continue to use the red heat/light in the day if we want to..... also that we should try to give him at least two/three weeks hibernation time over winter.
He said to carry on monitoring him, in case he has a 'cold' starting, as has been suggested on here, and also told us it is a priority that we get a humidity monitoring thingy!!
He also said he did not agree with any substrate other than paper or bare base viv as he see's a lot of snakes with impactation due to swallowing substrate, or with respiritary infections due to dust from various different substrates, so not even the tortoise bedding we are using appears to be unnecessary!!
He obviously has a lot of strong opinions... gonna go and have a good think on them now!!! |
www.thecornsake.co.uk
www.thehognosesnake.co.uk
www.theamphibian.co.uk |
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gingerpony
Queen Bee
United Kingdom
10455 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 21:18:39
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sounds like he's a rep vet then not a 'smally'.
i can't say i agree with everything he said, like you said Jennet - strong opinions! I think basically as owners we should try to make their captive environment as natural as possible, which is basicallly what your vet said.
substrate is down to personal preference as long as we're aware of the pros and cons of what we choose and act accordingly eg. not feeding on beech chippings. though no substrate sounds a bit bizarre! |
cornsnakes, ratsnakes, bullsnakes, boas and day geckos
Location:Leeds/York/Selby area |
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n/a
deleted
253 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 23:01:50
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I agree with GP regarding the substrate, esp as a corn in the wild would not slide around on a clean wooden floor.
Any snakes environment should be managed and controlled, even if that includes experimenting until you find a substrate and set-up that you are happy with and with one that the snake is suited to.
Corns also need substrate to bury themselves and burrow, when they need to hide, cool themselves or gain warmth from the ground. It also helps them to shed when dragging themselves through it.
I would suggest that you may wish to use a heat mat on the back of the viv, as secondary heating, with another under the viv (unless you maximise the heat output). If the snake is at the front of the viv or the middle, the heat will simply rise up the back of the viv and through the lid IMO.
I would also agree that he does sound like a rep vet, but more knowledgeable than hands on maybe, unless he referenced any of his own reps to you.
Im glad that you took him to the vet though.
What was the consultation charge? |
1.0. Albino Burm
2.0. Carpet Python
1.0. Cali King
11.6. Corns
1.1. Royal Python
1.1. Thick Tail Geckos
1.0. Bearded Dragon
1.0. Spur Thighed Tort |
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n/a
deleted
433 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 23:39:40
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| Glad to hear there is nothing wrong with him, the lack of substrate thing seems a bit odd, but he does sound like a knowledgable vet which is a relief. Hope he keeps doing well :) |
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Leyrielton2
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1060 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2008 : 15:38:58
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| Sorry to steal your thunder Jennet but when i had Angelina out last night i could hear a kind of clicking noise every so often and i think it was coming from her. Could this be a sign of a RTI? Ill keep an eye on her over the next few days though |
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Jennet
Hatchling
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2008 : 19:54:27
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Would agree Mark... more well read and experienced from handling and reading - he had specific book on tropicals that gave all of their natural range of stats... he also said bites were painful as they tended to drag on skin and pull off... referred to bearded dragons at that point.... from what I have read on here, corn snakes are less painful than most other type of snake, and whilst I guess not totally painless, not as sharp as hamster etc. or some other snakes with 'hooked type' teeth. He mentioned problems at the local zoo a couple of times, so it may be that he also works with reps there.
He did not make reference to any animal / rep of his own but he
was very good at handling and listening though, and appeared
quite knowledgeable... told us to watch for similar things as I had been told on here... including clicking, (so right to keep an eye on leyrielton) wheezing and snuffly type noises - and sneeze / cough type flecks on glass of viv etc.
I think his concern re: substrate was more surrounding ease of keeping clean/ability to regulary clean out and less dust causing RTI's and he said he see's a lot of impactation injuries (probably would if he is only tropicals vet locally)! However, he actually showed me his tropicals book where it said that substrate of newpapaer/paper being preferable and gave a good detail of how a layout should be. It did seem a little to contradict other advice he gave re; mimicing other 'natural' aspects of animals natural environment though - including ensuring our room was warm when we got Tango out of viv (something I had not considered)! particularly as I keep my home cool as I get quite bad hot flushes but as I said.. this may be due to seeing a lot of impact injuries as well aswhat said best in his book!!
Don't think I will be following that part of his advise though, as Tango has been quite happy and healthy in set up he was brought up in, so will be sticking closely to that as I believe making changes is not often in the animals best interest unless in dangerous circumstances.
cheers for all your advice and thoughts... J |
www.thecornsake.co.uk
www.thehognosesnake.co.uk
www.theamphibian.co.uk |
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gingerpony
Queen Bee
United Kingdom
10455 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2008 : 20:48:13
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| maybe he sees a lot of impactions as most reps in zoos get fed in their vivs and may therefore ingest substrate? avoidable if you feed out of the viv in a tub with just newspaper or similar, but not always practical with a large number of reps to feed. |
cornsnakes, ratsnakes, bullsnakes, boas and day geckos
Location:Leeds/York/Selby area |
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Kazerella
The Corn Snake Admin
United Kingdom
3093 Posts |
Posted - 28/09/2008 : 09:01:24
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I know- I've only got 8 and it took me a good hour and half to feed them all outside the viv yesterday, but it's worth it not to worry about impaction and being able to see everything and take pictures.
Glad your snakes alright Jennet |
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Jennet
Hatchling
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - 30/09/2008 : 20:38:43
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Tango has not fed since we have had him - have tried him 3 times so far (last feed on 9th), but am not overly concerned as we have read so much on here and elsewhere about them being stressed by change of environment etc., and also that they will generally feed when they are hungry.
He has always been fed in his viv on pre warmed jumbo mice and will usually strike and constrict. Previous owner said he had always used ashtray to run across surface of table in front of viv and Tango would always come out of hide ready and looking for prey if he was hugry, so have continued with this, but when he has not reacted we have still put mouse in dangling off forceps. He has shown interest via having a look at mouse, and tongue flicking (brained mouse first) but then just wandered off and eventually went back into hide.
Even left mouse in overnight yesterday, but still no luck - so am now thinking of not bothering him again until the weekend, by which time he may hopefully have recovered his apetite.
As Mark mentioned in an earlier post, he seemed thick enough from signature pic - also may be a little unsettled that we have been handling him more than previous owner (most nights instead of just every two or three nights) - so have left him to himself a bit more this week to see how he goes.
Btw Kaz... just checked out your pic of your hognose.... he gets my vote!! |
www.thecornsake.co.uk
www.thehognosesnake.co.uk
www.theamphibian.co.uk |
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Blackecho
The Corn Snake Admin
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
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