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MacSpud
Hatchling
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
 Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:04:42
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Hi All,
I was just having a browse when I stumbled across the scaleless morph which are apparently very expensive. I quite like the look but cant help feeling it's cruel?
I know it's blasphemy to say this here  but I'm starting to think about getting another sanke, either a Mexican Black King snake or a Royal Python. It's very early days, I've had a look at the care sheets but was just after general pro/cons and thoughts from actual owners. Or should I "just" get another corn? 
Cheers,
John |
1.0.0 Beaker (10-8-09 amel)
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DannyBrown91
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3070 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:15:17
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Is that even real? It dosn't look like a corn snake and the scales are what gives a snake its colours.
Looks both fake and horrible to me anyway. |
0.0.1 Ghost Corn - Casper
0.0.1 Diffused Corn - Reggie
0.0.1 Amel Corn - Candy A.K.A Baby
1.0 Commom BCI - Rocky
0.1 Japanese Akita - Sasha
Location: Liverpool |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:15:50
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kings and royals are very different snakes it is all down to what you want from your snake, if you want a snake that is curious, adventurous,and with a reputation for being feisty (a reputation i dont agree with though, apart from my brothers previous MBK's they deserves their rep) and quite active then go for the king, If you want a snake that will just generally appear to be lazy and lethargic and hide away quite a bit go for the royal.
Both are great, but if you are prone to worrying about snakes not feeding every time then stay away from the Royal, these guys can sometimes go off food for very long periods of time as they can be stressed quite easily.
or you can get one of each, king roal and corn |
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:28:52
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quote:
Originally posted by DannyBrown91
Is that even real? It dosn't look like a corn snake and the scales are what gives a snake its colours.
Looks both fake and horrible to me anyway.
Its 100% real, and its disgusting. |
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hillzi
The Lost boy.
United Kingdom
3984 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:34:27
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Agreed, it's horrid. I think some tinkering with nature is acceptable to a certain degree, otherwise we wouldn't have many morphs we do today, but thats awful.
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:43:52
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| That surely isn't a corn snake if it is a real snake? If it is, if they intentionally breed from the poor thing in order to get scale-less snake they need to be shot. Where on earth did you find this picture? Is it on a breeders site and was there any other information given along with it. There's a reason why snakes have scales and surely the poor little snake would be very uncomfortable slithering over anything. To be honest it sounds mean but I would probably put the poor thing down as I can't see how it can live a normal life of a snake like that. It would have to live on kitchen roll for all it's life and how would it shed? It's face looks so bizarre... the snake kinda looks like it was a victim of a burn accident and all it's scales burnt off but otherwise the snake healed but the scales never grew back. |
  
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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Figs
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3319 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:56:02
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...i wonder what they feel like to touch
they do look horrible though
poor thing 
does anyone think that its vision or eyes would be affected in anyway?
since snakies are supposed to have that protective scale thing over their eyes
theres scaleless royals too - they dont have pits!
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MacSpud
Hatchling
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 14:02:39
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| I was wondering about the eyes too. |
1.0.0 Beaker (10-8-09 amel)
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MacSpud
Hatchling
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 14:31:45
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the scaleless corn in those pics belongs to Brian Barczyk at BHB Reptiles in the US (he of SnakeBytes.tv fame)
To everyone who thinks its unnatural and cruel to breed a snake without scales because thats how nature intended, surely nature intended cornsnakes to have melanin for a reason? How many people on this site that think the scaleless is unnatural have an amelanistic corn?
Once upon a time a long time ago, snakes had limbs because 'nature' deemed them necessary. Now due to evolution they don't. Maybe scaleless is evolution trying something new and one day in the far future all snakes won't have scales?
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Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 14:45:44
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quote:
Originally posted by eeji
To everyone who thinks its unnatural and cruel to breed a snake without scales because thats how nature intended, surely nature intended cornsnakes to have melanin for a reason? How many people on this site that think the scaleless is unnatural have an amelanistic corn?
I was going to say that. Personaly, I would never intentionaly buy a genetically deficient animal. I dont see the appeal. |
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n/a
deleted
100 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 15:03:18
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| In the second pic it looks like it's been rolled in sesame seeds |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 15:14:10
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quote:
Originally posted by eeji
the scaleless corn in those pics belongs to Brian Barczyk at BHB Reptiles in the US (he of SnakeBytes.tv fame)
To everyone who thinks its unnatural and cruel to breed a snake without scales because thats how nature intended, surely nature intended cornsnakes to have melanin for a reason? How many people on this site that think the scaleless is unnatural have an amelanistic corn?
Once upon a time a long time ago, snakes had limbs because 'nature' deemed them necessary. Now due to evolution they don't. Maybe scaleless is evolution trying something new and one day in the far future all snakes won't have scales?
I never said it was unnatural I said it looked uncomfortable and since you can't ask the snake if it is or not then purposeless breeding them would be cruel. Then again if they are going to be scales snakes they would probably be better off in captivity than in the wild I guess. I wonder if they do shed though. Dos this mean they have no eye caps and I bet then they can't burrow ._. Although it doesn't appear to be completely scales because the under belly looks like it has scales. I would really hope that no-one intentionally tries to breed them to
I guess it's kinda like the whole uproar about people breeding chickens without feathers but ones a pet and ones because if the chickens had feathers then they wouldn't be able to live in Africa. |
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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MacSpud
Hatchling
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 15:17:00
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@ eeji
but it's not evolution through natural selection it's artificial selection by man. Limb loss was over a period of millennia and conveyed a selective advantage to the species. This doesn't fit those criteria at all and indeed the loss of scales in it's natural environment would be detrimental to the protection and hence survival of the snake. It's similar to breeding hairless cats as pets. Furs a good insulator and those moggies wouldn't last a decent winter in the wild in temperate climes, fur can also be used for camouflage for the big cats in hotter climates.
The melanin in snakes is also for camouflage.
I agree with the general philosophical point about breeding in any species, animal or plant. A certain level is acceptable and we've done it for thousands of years (dogs. horses, cows etc etc) and of course crops.
IMO we can go too far as we see with certain breeds of dogs and the problems they have.
I think there's a difference between breeding for traits which don't have an impact (or minimal) on the well-being of the species compared to those which do, for example hairless cats and imo scaleless snakes.
I don't think we should use evolution in this context.
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1.0.0 Beaker (10-8-09 amel)
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 15:21:51
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You know people will though as there is money to be made in it and people will think it looks cool and different.
I really want to know why and how the gene for scaleness came up. Considering the scale and feather gene are very closely linked to each other (chickens feet is an example of this) I'm surprised that a snake with no scales has popped up before a feathered or fur one. |
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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sexychef
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
937 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 16:38:05
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this is not to say i agree with mutation breeding but i do think (read some where cant remember where) only some snakes actually have true scales i think they are called 'keeled scales' whereas in corns there scales are in a way just folded skin and tissue.
i would completely disagree breeding in this way with other snakes like western hognoses or similar snakes. |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 16:44:04
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MacSpud: You've a good point about the evolution thing, which puts my theory to shame :D
I've read reports from people in the know that they shed normally and in one piece and live happily on regular substrate with no obvious over sensitivity to their surroundings. At the end of the day, its just another mutation that some will like and others won't. |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 17:09:17
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quote:
Originally posted by sexychef
this is not to say i agree with mutation breeding but i do think (read some where cant remember where) only some snakes actually have true scales i think they are called 'keeled scales' whereas in corns there scales are in a way just folded skin and tissue.
i would completely disagree breeding in this way with other snakes like western hognoses or similar snakes.
Thats quite interesting, im gonna look into that. Keeled scales are scales that have a rigde or fold through the middle, they feel rough.
Many (if not all)* rattlesnake species (amoungst other vipers) have keeled scales.
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Edited by - matty18714 on 03/05/2010 17:13:37 |
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DannyBrown91
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3070 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 17:26:33
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quote:
Originally posted by sexychef
this is not to say i agree with mutation breeding but i do think (read some where cant remember where) only some snakes actually have true scales i think they are called 'keeled scales' whereas in corns there scales are in a way just folded skin and tissue.
i would completely disagree breeding in this way with other snakes like western hognoses or similar snakes.
I read this when i was researching about boas. |
0.0.1 Ghost Corn - Casper
0.0.1 Diffused Corn - Reggie
0.0.1 Amel Corn - Candy A.K.A Baby
1.0 Commom BCI - Rocky
0.1 Japanese Akita - Sasha
Location: Liverpool |
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sexychef
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
937 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 17:29:04
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| yes matty most vipers rattles many sand dewling snakes have keeled scales, these scales are more like the scales of a beardie or a iggy |
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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 17:51:23
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quote:
Originally posted by MacSpud
@ eeji
but it's not evolution through natural selection it's artificial selection by man. Limb loss was over a period of millennia and conveyed a selective advantage to the species. This doesn't fit those criteria at all and indeed the loss of scales in it's natural environment would be detrimental to the protection and hence survival of the snake. It's similar to breeding hairless cats as pets. Furs a good insulator and those moggies wouldn't last a decent winter in the wild in temperate climes, fur can also be used for camouflage for the big cats in hotter climates.
The melanin in snakes is also for camouflage.
Nice post.
I tried having this "conversation" with a few people over on the dark side about scaleless corns, using the example of snakes lack of legs-I asked "If a snake ancestor was born without legs, when the rest of the species had them, would it survive?" Imo the answer is of course no.
However, there was of course the odd few who believed that evolution happened overnight, eg: legless snakes were born, survived and bred, and thats snakes came to be how they are today......  |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
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scaleless corn
