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 Posted - 21/02/2010 : 21:49:38
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Hi all
Not been on the forum for a while but my sons had a corn snake for a year now and really loving it. shes a great snake and doing really well. she's presently in a 12x12x12 glass viv but when should I buy a new iv and what size. I've read that small snakes don't like big vivs. |
1 Ghost Corn Cecilia
1 Ultramel Corn Cecil
2 Dogs
4 Kids |
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18 Posts |
Posted - 21/02/2010 : 22:00:50
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I might cause some controversy here, but:
I put my corn straight into a 36" vivarium the day I got her, when he was only a couple of weeks old, and I've had no problems at all. I've had her for almost 6 months now and she's always been curious and outgoing, feeds very well and sheds well also. Absolutely no signs of nervousness or other negative signs often given when told not to use large vivs. |
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HannahB
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
5491 Posts |
Posted - 21/02/2010 : 22:11:51
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generally its recommended that when your snakes length is greater than its current housings length + width then you should move them up a size 
some snakes will cope with a large viv right from the start whereas some others wont |
2.0 Normal Royal Pythons - Q and Little One
1.0 Chihauhaun Mountain Kingsnake - Simba
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2010 : 03:03:07
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This is a topic that you will find people having different views Stuart and, to be honest, I do wonder if some of it has to do with the snake itself. It is certainly not something I would do....put a small snake into a viv too big, although it is possible to pack it out enough with hides, plants etc for the snake to feel secure.
I must admit that I always wonder about how much harder it is to catch a snake without causing it stress when it is in the bigger viv.
HannahB has given you the rough idea of how to work out when your snake needs to move up in housing, which a lot of us follow.
You might find this topic of interest - http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8423.
The problem is you never know how your snake is going to cope in a viv 'too big' for it until you see signs of stress...and by then it is too late...so I guess my question is - is it worth it, for the snake's sake?
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378 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2010 : 14:46:15
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quote:
Originally posted by MrMerlin
I might cause some controversy here, but:
I put my corn straight into a 36" vivarium the day I got her, when he was only a couple of weeks old, and I've had no problems at all. I've had her for almost 6 months now and she's always been curious and outgoing, feeds very well and sheds well also. Absolutely no signs of nervousness or other negative signs often given when told not to use large vivs.
So completely opposite to your posts on the thread below then Mr Merlin?!?
http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8233&whichpage=3 br /
Because I would say your snakes problem is probably down to the viv size and feeling vunerable.
@Moorey how long is your snake? Guessing from his age I would probably suggest a 2 foot x 1 foot viv. Although it would depend on how big yours is. |
0.1.0 Anery corn- LegLess
1.0.0 Carolina corn- NoFeet
1.0.0 Syrian hamster- Jabba
0.2.0 Albino ferrets- Mable & Sue
1.0.0 Cat- Ned |
Edited by - n/a on 22/02/2010 15:19:52 |
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18 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2010 : 16:17:50
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| i have my 2 corns in their 3ft viv since a month of haveing them, they seem to love haveing the room to move about and never had 1 single problems with them. |
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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2010 : 16:40:52
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quote:
Originally posted by bengy_s
quote:
Originally posted by MrMerlin
I might cause some controversy here, but:
I put my corn straight into a 36" vivarium the day I got her, when he was only a couple of weeks old, and I've had no problems at all. I've had her for almost 6 months now and she's always been curious and outgoing, feeds very well and sheds well also. Absolutely no signs of nervousness or other negative signs often given when told not to use large vivs.
So completely opposite to your posts on the thread below then Mr Merlin?!?
http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8233&whichpage=3 br /
Because I would say your snakes problem is probably down to the viv size and feeling vunerable.
Exactly what I was thinking Bengy, and you beat me to the response... |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
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18 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2010 : 17:43:35
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Bengy/SexyBear
Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, surely if she was feeling vulnerable she would be nervous and hidden all day long? From approx 5pm until I go bed (usually about midnight) she will be out and about exploring, up and down the scenery in the viv.
I have little experience with reptiles, but alot with cats and dogs and that behaviour doesn't shout out nervousness and apprehension to me. |
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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2010 : 17:59:05
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quote:
Originally posted by MrMerlin
Bengy/SexyBear
Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, surely if she was feeling vulnerable she would be nervous and hidden all day long? From approx 5pm until I go bed (usually about midnight) she will be out and about exploring, up and down the scenery in the viv.
I have little experience with reptiles, but alot with cats and dogs and that behaviour doesn't shout out nervousness and apprehension to me.
Hey-
my point is that you say you have noticed absolutely no problems with a big viv- apart from the fact you haven't been able to handle your snake for 6 months.
If I have got this wrong then please correct me, but this is why we usually advise against getting a big viv for a small snake. Handling issues can most definitely be related to housing issues.
Reptiles are very different from cats and dogs, and the signs of stress aren't the same either.
It may be an idea to move Kratos into a smaller rub/viv for a while whilst you get the handling issues under control before then putting her back into the 3 footer when she is big enough. |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
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378 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2010 : 20:46:05
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I think you should try a RUB or faun that is smaller and keep her in that for a while and see how she responds. I do appreciate you have plenty of experience among other animals, but as sexybear said, the way snakes respond to stress is very different. Some will have feeding issues and others with handling and general aggressiveness and others will just hide away completely.
While Im sure you have Kratos' interest at heart and the 3 foot viv will be suitable for her when she's bigger, IMO its just too big at the moment.
As mentioned in your other post, your friend/breeder will hopefully offer some help into the handling situation. If I were closer I would be happy to come around and help get him used to handling. I will just add though that at six months if she did bite it wouldn't hurt. Even when they are adult size, they aren't the most painful thing either. One of your cats would dish out a much harder bite. (Hamsters hurt more still)! |
0.1.0 Anery corn- LegLess
1.0.0 Carolina corn- NoFeet
1.0.0 Syrian hamster- Jabba
0.2.0 Albino ferrets- Mable & Sue
1.0.0 Cat- Ned |
Edited by - n/a on 22/02/2010 20:46:42 |
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18 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2010 : 21:45:11
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Figured I'd reply to this topic rather than carrying it on in both topics!
Anywho to the the point, I've just finished playing football with said friend and explained my 'predicament', so he offered to come round and have a look for me. He looked in the viv and without thinking opened the door, stuck his hand in and picked her up... she wasn't particularly happy with it but he had control for a good 5 minutes before putting her back, she just went and curled back up where she was picked up from.
He explained what I deem to be confident and what experienced owners deem confident are two different things.
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378 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2010 : 00:26:38
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Great news. Your friend probably said to you (on subject of confidence) that snakes pick up on your nervousness, therefore making them nervous or agressive. This has probably snowballed each time you tried to handle her, which may be why she's seemed so timid.
It makes a bit more sense now- though to your credit you did say that you perhaps wasn't 100% confident. At least you can learn from what you have witnessed and be more confident in the future?!
Although it is generally advised not to put a corn in a large environment straight away, it does seem Kratos is a bit nervous (weather from a larger viv or picked up from your body language) but with regular handling I hope she becomes more tolerant to handling for you.
Did you give her a little hold while she was out and about? As long as your direct with your movements and not hesitant you'll be fine. I'd probably give her a hold for 3-5 mins twice a week for a week or two and build up frequency and length of each hold from there. I'm sure she'll get used to it too!
Good luck! |
0.1.0 Anery corn- LegLess
1.0.0 Carolina corn- NoFeet
1.0.0 Syrian hamster- Jabba
0.2.0 Albino ferrets- Mable & Sue
1.0.0 Cat- Ned |
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18 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2010 : 17:42:54
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I held her for maybe 30 seconds at the end of the 'session' but it was a bit messy to be honest.
As you said bengy, my mate said to have a go for 5 mintues a couple of times a week, and if after half a dozen tries or so she is still nervous it's best to move her into somewhere smaller, not just because it may suit her better but it'll also be easier for me to find and pick her up.
Something else he also said which I never thought of was that I generally have cold hands and this could be an issue... |
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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2010 : 18:00:23
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quote:
Originally posted by MrMerlin
Figured I'd reply to this topic rather than carrying it on in both topics!
Anywho to the the point, I've just finished playing football with said friend and explained my 'predicament', so he offered to come round and have a look for me. He looked in the viv and without thinking opened the door, stuck his hand in and picked her up... she wasn't particularly happy with it but he had control for a good 5 minutes before putting her back, she just went and curled back up where she was picked up from.
He explained what I deem to be confident and what experienced owners deem confident are two different things.
Fantastic news!  |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
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378 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2010 : 22:28:21
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quote:
Originally posted by MrMerlin
I held her for maybe 30 seconds at the end of the 'session' but it was a bit messy to be honest.
As you said bengy, my mate said to have a go for 5 mintues a couple of times a week, and if after half a dozen tries or so she is still nervous it's best to move her into somewhere smaller, not just because it may suit her better but it'll also be easier for me to find and pick her up.
Something else he also said which I never thought of was that I generally have cold hands and this could be an issue...
It shouldn't be a huge problem. I have quite cold hands too and although they must feel cooler to my snakes, they are used to it. Maybe warm them up to start with, but they'll learn to associate with them. Just make sure you handle them firmly. Think of their skin sensitivity similar to the bottom of your feet; if you grab them, it doesn't tickle but if you gingerly touch them then it can cause the snake to jerk.  So it is not always the snake being shy, just appearing to be from the sensation of your contact. |
0.1.0 Anery corn- LegLess
1.0.0 Carolina corn- NoFeet
1.0.0 Syrian hamster- Jabba
0.2.0 Albino ferrets- Mable & Sue
1.0.0 Cat- Ned |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2010 : 04:05:01
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quote:
Originally posted by MrMerlin
I held her for maybe 30 seconds at the end of the 'session' but it was a bit messy to be honest.
As you said bengy, my mate said to have a go for 5 mintues a couple of times a week, and if after half a dozen tries or so she is still nervous it's best to move her into somewhere smaller, not just because it may suit her better but it'll also be easier for me to find and pick her up.
Something else he also said which I never thought of was that I generally have cold hands and this could be an issue...
So glad you held her....and you must not be surprised it was a bit messy. Must have been first time you have really handled her, you will have been nervous and she will have picked up on it. But what is so good and so important is that you did it ! So you know you can do it again.
Do wonder whether you could attempt to do it more than a couple of times a week??? It is up to you, but the more you do handle her the more she will get used to it and the more confident you will get. I am not encouraging you to handle her for longer than 5 mins, but maybe every couple of days (except for 48 hrs after feed of course ).
Your comment about moving her into somewhere smaller so you can find her and pick her up easier is one of my arguments about the necessity of having a viv that suits the size of the snake. I know how hard it was to catch Silvesta when we first got him (he hadnt been handled and had been treated badly) and he was in a suitable sized viv. Used to hide and turn his viv upside down when I did try and catch him!! But I persisted, staying calm and firm and now he will be picked up without even trying to get away....just allows me to scoop him up. It didnt take long, just a few weeks of handling him a couple of times a day and being confident while I did it, not being worried by him rushing through my hands at the start and trying to escape - just keeping him controlled and feeling safe in my hands with a firm grip (but not tight, obviously  !).
I would be surprised if your hands are an issue - unless they are freezing, of course! I always have cold hands and I also always wash them before handling either snake, and never remember to run the water warm. You could try warming them up to begin with if you are really worried about it, and just rubbing some of the substrate in her viv between your hands (to get some of her scent onto your hands) will also help warm them a bit.
Think Bengy's comparison with the feet is perfect (well done Bengy!).
Just persist, it is so worth it. I couldnt imagine not handling mine, I get so much pleasure from it.
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2010 : 10:08:34
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Lack of confidence is the cause of 90% of issues with any animal, snakes are especially adept at sensing it. You got to be 100% certain in your mind of what you are gonna do, then do it, if you falter, pause or are uncertain of what you want to do then all these can come across as a threat, thus you end up with turbo snake and or getting bitten. @ 6 months old, a bite is gonna make you jump more than hurt, cos they tend to hiss when they strike, still makes me jump sometimes.
I personally think unless you are 100% confident and are prepared to take a bite then get your mate to help out a couple more times, if you panic and lose it then the snake is gonna do his crust and try and get away at full tilt, which is surprisingly fast. A few more sessions with your mate will do wonders for you and the snake. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2010 : 10:13:15
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To the original poster, it depends how big the snake is, they vary so much in size throughout all ages that its not possible to give you an answer.
If the viv is 12x12 then as long as the snakey is less than 2ft then its not needed.
Moving a snake into a big viv prematurely can and does cause issues, mainly stress which manifests in agression and feeding problems.
For example, I moved a 4.5ft boa from a 3 x 1 into a 4x1, he hated it, didn't feed, I moved him back after 3 or so weeks and he then didn't feed properly for another 6 months. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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20 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 16:31:29
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Thanks guys she's just over 2ft and is a very good feeder.
Just got a new starter kit 36x15x15 viv with plenty of plants, cave etc from viper & vine in north manchester. The owner displays signs that he will not sell any pet unless proof of thermostat which is a shop that cares in my book.
I've just set it up and will make sure everything is working ok with the new thermostat etc. I will move her tomoz if alls well as she was only fed thursday night. Any tips on transferring to the larger viv?
I'm going to keep the small viv set up ready for another snake in June. I fancy a miami this time as a change to our ghost
with regards to handling my son just puts his hand in no problems and picks her up. once he has her in his hand she doesn't try to escape at all. She occasionally strikes but shes still quite young and it doesn't seem to put him off at all but it does make him just all the same. I make sure he handles her reg except after shes been fed when we leave her for at least 48hrs.
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1 Ghost Corn Cecilia
1 Ultramel Corn Cecil
2 Dogs
4 Kids |
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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 17:03:50
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Its normally adviseable to have the mats and stats running for a couple of days to allow everything to stabilise properly
If she is still striking in her current house then chances are moving her to a 3 footer will make her feel even more stressy and vulnerable.
Jam pack it with every thing you can (plants, cardboard tubes, hides etc) and then give her at least a week to get used to the new viv, monitor her behaviour closely and don't feed for this period. |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
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Jennet
Hatchling
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 18:54:34
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| Another thing you could do if you find it is a little big and snakie is getting stressed, is screen half of it off with a piece of board or similar and just keep moving the board up slightly every couple of months once tolerating the larger size ok. |
www.thecornsake.co.uk
www.thehognosesnake.co.uk
www.theamphibian.co.uk |
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larger viv
