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IdenticalTentacle
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2010 : 17:36:18
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Hello, I just bought my first little corn snake, and after reading this forum for a while, I have ordered a thermostat, thermometer, found a 2nd hide and done all the other stuff that the pet shop owners didn't tell me... But I think the vivarium is too cold with the heat mat they provided (it's only 7 watts, and even before my digital thermometer has arrived, I know it's not 30 degrees in there; I've put his viv next to a radiator in the mean time, but that isn't very practical).
My question is, what wattage heat mat should I go for? It's only a smallish plastic vivarium, so I don't want to nuke it with the biggest one I can find (although since I've ordered a thermostat, being too powerful won't really be a problem), and the higher wattage ones seem to be unecessarily large. I was thinking maybe a 14 or 20?
He's already regurgitated his first meal :( but I think he'll be fine now that I know to let him settle in for a week or two and once I've got his temperatures properly sorted.
Thanks! |
RIP baby Friedrich. |
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IdenticalTentacle
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 17:58:16
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| P.S. My 7W heat mat is stuck to the underside of the viv. - would it be better to put it inside? I dunno if it'll fit in there very conveniently... |
RIP baby Friedrich. |
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HannahB
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
5491 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 19:06:55
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Hey and welcome
first off with the regurge.. I'd leave him for 10 days to let the flora and stuff in his gut settle back down and get straightened out,ideally he should hvae been left for a week - no contact, no feeding, just regular water changes - so he can settle into his new home with no extra stresses but if you leave him for a week from tonight then give him a few extra days he should be ok 
with the heatmat.. tbh i dont really think the wattage of the heatmat will change anything - but im not an electrical expert so someone correct me if im wrong! Where abouts is the stat probe? i have my corns in platic fauns which is what i think you have, i have the heatmat underneath them with the stat probe inbetween the mat and the faun, i then have the temp probe inside the faun under the warm end hide and adjust the mat so that the heat inside the faun is sitting nicely around 29' - is that how yours is set up? it might well be hitting 30+ degrees - the mat should feel slightly cool to the touch as it is cooler than our body temp..
do you have a digital or dial thermometer and where is it placed? if its a dial one throw it away..they arent very reliable and you can pick up some really good probed ones off ebay for less that £3
hope this helps! |
2.0 Normal Royal Pythons - Q and Little One
1.0 Chihauhaun Mountain Kingsnake - Simba
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kdlang
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3556 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 19:23:22
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Hi and welcome. I'm pleased to hear that you have read the advise on here and already ordered the extra equipment that is essential. Pet shops can be pretty useless. My snake came with just one hide and a heatmat too and i felt much happier once I had him fully kitted out.
Firstly what size is your viv? I had a 7 watt heatmat under my plastic faun that measured 14" long x 8" wide x 11" high and it was quite sufficient. The heat mats don't feel very warm to our hands because our body temperature is higher than 30degrees. It may be better to turn the heatmat off for now rather than have one completely unmonitored until your thermometers and thermostat arrive. Can someone correct me if I am wrong please.
Did you follow the one week no handling or feeding rule when you got him? Most pet shops don't tell you this but it is pretty important particularly as your snake has already regurged. As you say, leave him to settle down for a week or two, just daily water changes, spot checks and straighten his substrate so he gets used to your smell. Someone else can advise you on feeding after a regurge because luckily I have never experienced it but once you do feed him it will be very important not to handle him for 48 hours after.
I'm sure that once all the equipment is in place and your snake has settled in, he will be fine. Hope this helps :)
Edited to say I didn't realise how long I had taken to write this until I saw Hannahs reply lol |
4.1.0 corns - Izzy (Carolina) Alice (Amel) Peanut (Butter Motley) Swayze (Ghost) Carmellia (Butter Motley)
0.1.0 cat - Kizzy
1.0.0 Dog - Dobbie
Location - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
www.support-dogs.org.uk |
Edited by - kdlang on 09/02/2010 19:26:49 |
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IdenticalTentacle
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 20:19:33
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Hi, thank you both for the detailed replies.
First off, I will indeed leave him be for 10 days now. I hadn't read the 7 day rule when I first got him home (the shop said "we feed them sundays, so you can feed him when you get home"... >.<), but I will definitely be letting him get settled until the middle of next week now. I almost didn't believe an animal could survive so long without food (what a n00b), so thanks for clarifying that for me. I have been changing his water daily and moving my hand in and out of the viv as slowly as possible.
I'll explain how his home is set up: it's a plastic tank with a heatmat stuck to the UNDERSIDE of the tank, and substrate about 1cm thick covering the floor. Is this wrong? The heatmat does not have a stat yet (it's in the post!), but it feels quite hot, whereas inside the vivarium the floor feels less warm... So perhaps the lack of thermostat and mat on the outside have been a fortunate mistake, so he's not getting overheated...? He does seem to like sitting in the warm end half the time and sleeping in the cool hide the rest of the day, so I'm guessing he's not too unhappy with the temp? I'll post an update once the thermometer and thermostat arrive ('speedy delivery' my ass...). I haven't got anything else inside the viv other than 2 hides and a water dish (and substrate). I was planning on getting him some plastic plants in a week or two once he's used to his new place.
I'll make sure that the floor of the hot end is hitting 30 once the (digital (yep - ebay, £4 )) thermometer arrives, and I guess I let the cool end alone? The heating in my house is on every morning and evening so the ambient temp is usually about 21... I know it's supposed to be ~24 though, right? Does that mean I need another heatmat and thermostat? I'm spending more money on this creature than I do on myself haha.
Thanks again both of you for your wisdom. |
RIP baby Friedrich. |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 20:33:26
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imho 30 is a bit high for the warm end, all mine are at around 27. Mat wattage usually increases with the mat size, so they're all pretty much the same if compared by the square inch. Even if you do get one that is more powerful and capable of hitting very high temperatures, the thermostat will prevent it from doing so.
For your cold end, don't worry about that - room temperature is ok unless you live in an igloo. |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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LittleMick
Yearling
United Kingdom
563 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 20:57:37
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I have th eplastic faunarium, which is th eame as Hannah's. Exo Terra Large Flat faunarium, L18" W12" x H7 1/2". Mine is heated by a 6" x 11" 7w Komodo Mat. And my temps can go above the recommended temperature. Hence the themostat to control it.
More watts = more heat. BUT there are a number of factors that can influence that. As Hannah said, the watts won't matter, IF your mat is controlled by a stat. A couple of examples
Corn Snake Home with the above measurements and mat, the heat mat is under the faun, passing through plastic, thin to no layer of aspen substrate, the stat is resting on the faun floor above the heat mat. The heat mat and faun also sit on top of a sheet of polystyrene which delfects the heat upward. The temp rests nicely at 30c peaking at 31c depending on the ambient room temp. So I will turn this down during the hotter months.
Scorpion Home, one of the heat mats I have is stuck on the side of the tank, it's a 10 1/2" x 11" 16w Exo Terra Mat. The heat has to pass through thick glass and is NOT insulated by polystyrene so it is harder to keep the heat up and even though it is controlled by a thermostat the temp never gets high enough to be switched off.
So basically the only guide you shoud really go by is heat mat size = 1/3 - 1/2 of the enclosure floor. If you are struggling to keep the ehat mat up I know some members keep enclosure next to radiators, some use bulbs to raise the ambient temperature, wrap blankets around enclosures, polystyrene under the heat mat.
Hope this helps
EDITED BY ME - I drink too much tea, loads of people have replied by the time I finished my post, lol  |
0.4.0 Gerbils (Gemini, Pica, Gerty and Sasha)
0.1.0 Leopard Gecko (Elle)
1.0.0 Carolina Corn Snake(Elijah)
0.0.1 Emperor/Imperial Scorpion (Abbi)
2.0.0 Roborovski Dwarf Hamsters (Micro & Chippy)
Tropical fish - 6 Platys.6 Mollies.9 Glowlight Tetra.4 Pearl Gouramis.4 Apple Snails.1 Tiger Plec.2 Common Bristlenose Plecs and lots of babies. |
Edited by - LittleMick on 09/02/2010 20:59:16 |
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IdenticalTentacle
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 21:06:27
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Wow, this is a great community, I'm sure I'll be spending far too much time in here now...
Thanks guys, you've put my mind at ease. I've been worrying about little Friedrich all day, now I look forward to next week when I can start holding the wee fella. |
RIP baby Friedrich. |
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HannahB
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
5491 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 22:07:55
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quote:
Originally posted by IdenticalTentacle
I almost didn't believe an animal could survive so long without food (what a n00b), so thanks for clarifying that for me.
corns are really hardy - hardier than we give them credit for..in the wild they can go for several weeks without feeding so its not a massive issue for him for not being fed for an extra few days
glad we could help you out so much |
2.0 Normal Royal Pythons - Q and Little One
1.0 Chihauhaun Mountain Kingsnake - Simba
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IdenticalTentacle
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 14:17:35
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Right, my digital thermometer just arrived and after placing the probe on the floor of the vivarium above the centre of the heat mat (which is still stuck to the outside of the bottom of the tank) where the substrate is at its thinnest, it finally settles down to a readout of 29.5 C. I know the hottest bit of his viv is supposed to be around 27 - 30, so at least I know he hasn't been roasting or freezing for the past few days.
However, I'm having a bit of a conundrum with the thermostat... The wire for the stat probe is thicker than the snake himself, so I don't know how I'm going to get the probe in the tank without leaving a gap big enough for him to escape through (not to mention with a handy wire for him to crawl up leading right out of it!)... I'm guessing I'll have to make a hole which the wire can fit through perfectly... But how the hell do I do that? Not to mention, how the hell do I do that without freaking poor little Friedrich out?
Here's a picture of what I mean if my description isn't clear:
http://s994.photobucket.com/albums/af63/IdenticalTentacle/?action=view¤t=SAM_0056.jpg |
RIP baby Friedrich. |
Edited by - IdenticalTentacle on 10/02/2010 14:18:46 |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 14:19:48
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| do you not already have a hole in the lid of the faun, if you do just make it a wee bit bigger for the probe to fit through. thats what weve done with ours |
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Edited by - gmac on 10/02/2010 14:21:09 |
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IdenticalTentacle
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 14:53:02
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| Yeah, there is a hole in the top, 'bout half the size I need.. How should I make it bigger, though? Dunno if that'd be any easier than making a new hole entirely. It's plastic, so I was thinking about heating a screwdriver over the stove and forcing it through, but that might make quite a mess of melted plastic. I could perhaps find a hand-drill and drill through the clear lid, but that might leave sharp edges. It's not really a major problem, just wondering if anyone had any experience with this. |
RIP baby Friedrich. |
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Kehhlyr
ǝʞɐɔ sǝʌoן
United Kingdom
8173 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 15:46:15
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A heated screwdriver will do it. Just melt the existing hole a little larger.
You get very little residual melted plastic left over and any that is there can usually just be picked off. |
-=Kehhlyr - The Resident Loon
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IdenticalTentacle
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 20:24:40
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| My latest problem now is that I can't get the thermostat to work very well. No matter where I position the probe, the digital thermometer always drops as low as 25 before the heat mat comes on, and then gets as high as 31 before it knocks off again. I know thermostats are not very accurate, but this is ridiculous. Are these acceptable temperature ranges, am I just being overly paranoid? It seems like if I want the range to actually be between 27 and 30, I may as well sit there all day watching the thermometer, switching the mains supply to the heat mat on and off myself! |
RIP baby Friedrich. |
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Fal
Hatchling
United Kingdom
245 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 20:30:56
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| You've certainly found the right place with this forum to get help, and good to see you on here trying to make improvements for your new snake! :) I have had problems with my stat turning off the mat at too low a temp, I've just played around with moving the probe of the stat and then seeing what happens and so on... a bit of patience, persistence and trial and error and I am sure you'll get there :) |
Corn Snake - Bella. Bearded Dragon - Draco. Leopard Gecko - Mojo. Cat - Neo. In our family we also have: Cali King Snake, Spiny Flower Mantis (RIP), African Lined Mantis (RIP), Ghost Mantis (RIP), four Hermit Crabs, a Budgy and a Dog - Mystie... oh and a YAMAHA YZF-R1 but she's feeling a bit neglected at the moment :( |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 20:37:15
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| does your thermometer have a probe? If so try attaching the probe of the thermometer to the probe of the stat then place both in direct contact with your warm spot (ie where the snake will warm itself) Attach them together using rubber bands DO NOT use tape as tape + snakes = possible disaster |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
Edited by - elament on 10/02/2010 20:40:30 |
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Fal
Hatchling
United Kingdom
245 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 20:52:34
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| You see that's how I do it with both my Leo and Beardie and it works a treat - but for the corns faun I put the stat probe on the mat and.. well.. it heats up before the faun does, or rather the faun loses heat quicker than the stat probe under the faun, so perhaps Tentacle is having the same problem because it's a plastic, heavily vented faunarium! So yeah, try what Elament says or try covering up some of the lid vents to stop the heat rising and escaping too easily?? |
Corn Snake - Bella. Bearded Dragon - Draco. Leopard Gecko - Mojo. Cat - Neo. In our family we also have: Cali King Snake, Spiny Flower Mantis (RIP), African Lined Mantis (RIP), Ghost Mantis (RIP), four Hermit Crabs, a Budgy and a Dog - Mystie... oh and a YAMAHA YZF-R1 but she's feeling a bit neglected at the moment :( |
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kdlang
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3556 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 21:18:20
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| I made the hole in the top of my faun bigger with a pair of scissors lol. Not ideal but it did the job. After feeding the thermostat and thermometer probs through i fastened them together with a elastic band so they were reading from exactly the same place, then held them in place with Alice's warm hide so he didn't move them. It seemed to keep the temperatures pretty steady between 27 and 29 degrees which I was happy with. Sometimes we had higher readings but I think it was more when Alice was in his hide and probably closer to the probs. What kind of thermostat have you got? |
4.1.0 corns - Izzy (Carolina) Alice (Amel) Peanut (Butter Motley) Swayze (Ghost) Carmellia (Butter Motley)
0.1.0 cat - Kizzy
1.0.0 Dog - Dobbie
Location - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
www.support-dogs.org.uk |
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IdenticalTentacle
Snake Mite
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 23:27:09
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| I have a Ministat 100. I have tried all sorts all day long... Both probes next to each other, the stat probe touching the heat mat, the stat probe slightly further away, it's driving me mental! I guess trial and error is what's gonna resolve the problem eventually, I'm just nervous I'm putting my corn through hell while I try to get it right. |
RIP baby Friedrich. |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2010 : 09:50:31
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I had this problem too with two habistat mat stats and to be honest I backed them at the rep dealer. No matter which way I tried to put the probes the stats would switch on and stay on till ridiculous tempratures then turn of and stay off until the temp in the viv plummeted to 25 or lower. I gave up trying after a couple of days and got my rep dealer to replace it and the one he replaced it with was just as bad. Thinking it was something I was doing I rang him and (bless him) he brought round another one which I set up exactly the same way and its perfect! I now got both stats running within a tolerance of .5c. I even rung eurorep up to complain and they said what I was describing was impossible!! LOL.
If you got a dodgy stat and its got warrenty return it i say.
Also Is your viv or faun in direct sunlight? Sounds implausible I know but i recently discovered just the power of the sun shining through the front glass of my viv was enough to warm the stat probe up enough for it to malfunction. |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2010 : 10:36:33
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All sounds good! Mat stats work that way all the time, they turn on when the temp drops a bit, then off slightly higher than set, that's normal. If you want a stat that will give you very close tolerances then you need a pulse stat or dimmer.
Leave you thermometer probe in the viv, and put the stat probe taped to the mat, then you can set the temps by the thermometer rather than the innacurate guage on the stat.
If you are worried about holes that the snake can get through then you can silicone them, just leave the snake out for at least 25 hours for the vapour to go away.
Hides wise, you can never have enough, but, they don't have to be conventional, you can use fake plants, these make quite a nice hide, plus they look nice and can be climbed.
Make sure the viv/faunarium is not positioned so as to be in a draft, that can cause rapid temp drops.
I gather the snake is quite small, its better now to provide more shelters as young snakes can become insecure in large open spaces, and will appreciate the extra cover.
All my young snakes live in quite small tubs, roughly 12x6x6, which is adequate for their size, they only have 1 hide and a small water bowl, they don't need vast spaces, but then for show its nicer to have a beautifully set up viv! Mine aren't for show, so have what they need, rather than what makes them look nice.
Good luck with it. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Heat mats?
