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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
 Posted - 26/01/2010 : 20:35:54
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Having had the benefit of two digital thermometers I conducted a little experiment on colins viv this evening. I will leave it up to you to come to some conclusion to the findings...
I attached one digital thermometer probe to the probe on the stat so I could get temp reading at the stat probe position to see how the thermostat behaves. I then set the other thermo with the probe at substrate level (where the snake would be) to see what the difference is.
When I attached the thermostat probe (with thermo probe attached) to the heatmat (as instructed by the manufacturer) I found that the stat turned off the heatmat far more frequently (not suprisingly) and as a result the temprature at substrate level (where snakey would be) plummeted to under 26 degrees whilst the probe at mat level was reading in excess of 34 degrees. Therefore I have concluded that just 1/2" of substrate (aspen) could effect the temprature at substrate level as much as eight degrees.
Lifting the probes that were attached to eachother so they were at substrate level I was able to set the stat so it maintained a steady 27 degrees (at substrate level) whereas with both probes attached to the mat I was not.
Now I am confused.
I have been told the probe for the stat should be attached to the mat but I have found that doing it that way the result at substrate level was temps well below 25.
Personally I have found suspending the probe at substrate level to be most accurate.
So the question is cornys should be kept at a warm end temp of 27-30 degrees. Is that mat temprature or substrate level.
I am a tad confused lol
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1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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Lilpunk
Yearling
512 Posts |
Posted - 26/01/2010 : 20:45:42
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I think (if I am not under any pre-conseptions) that it is the temperature of the substrate- that the snake will be lying on - which is the important factor and so the one we measure. If you place the probe on the mat, which some people do, it regulates the temperature fine, but it might be a little bit cooler in the viv if the mat is outside it and the heat has to get through the viv bottom as well as the substrate. I personally would go for substrate, but that's just me  |
0.0.1 Carolina corn - (renamed) Lumos.
2.0.0 Shetlands - Winston & Rupert.
1.3.0 Guinea pigs - Coffee, Nutkin, Rosemary & Thyme.
0.1.0 Yorkshire Terrier - Poppy. |
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reptiledanny
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1809 Posts |
Posted - 26/01/2010 : 20:48:10
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| i kind of get what you are talking about. when i had my thermostat probe on the heat mat the temps in the tank were going from 30 down to 24. i have now put the stat probe in the tank and the temps are at a steady 28-30. much better. |
1.1 royal pythons 0.1 hog island boa 1.0 corn snake
sig made by stapey |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 26/01/2010 : 21:11:14
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| Weird it is, having spoken to a bloke at eurorep ( the people that make habistat stats) he told me the probe for the stat should be attached to the mat but doing that the temps are all over the place whereas when you put the probe at substrate level it is much easier to establish a steady temp |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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n/a
deleted
378 Posts |
Posted - 26/01/2010 : 21:38:43
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What thermostat you using? If its an on off stat then there will be variences anyway (although as you said you can tinker with it to get a more steady fluctuation). Pulse proportional stats are more expensive, however the temperature varience is very little in comparison.
If heat mat is in the viv I would get readings at or on top of the mat as the snake can burrow through the substrate and as you said there could be an 8*C varience. You wouldn't want to theoretically heat the mat to 38*C to get the substrate level to 30*C. Having said that I (and others) use a cut of floor vinal (conducts heat very well) over the mat, place the hide in and only substrate around the rest i.e. none in the hide. This means the surface where the snake will be in contact with has less variables i.e. changes in depth of substrate but can still burrow in the viv.
If the heat mat is under the viv then again I would put the probes on the very bottom inside the viv.
Snakes are clever and will realise that the heat is there when they need it. |
0.1.0 Anery corn- LegLess
1.0.0 Carolina corn- NoFeet
1.0.0 Syrian hamster- Jabba
0.2.0 Albino ferrets- Mable & Sue
1.0.0 Cat- Ned |
Edited by - n/a on 26/01/2010 21:43:57 |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 26/01/2010 : 21:55:57
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| no matter where your mat is or where the thermostat probe is, the thermometer probe MUST be inside the viv where the snake is. Take an average above and below the substrate if you have a thick layer and try to aim for 27 degrees. This way it will be slightly cooler up top and warmer underneath and is yet another direction to thermoregulate :) |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 27/01/2010 : 11:09:02
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yep ben its an on off stat I am intending to get pulse stats when I can afford them (need 2) The vinyl tile thing is a good idea i intend to do nexi week when i go down town to find some
cheers
steve
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1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 27/01/2010 : 11:54:03
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What you are basically saying is (if im correct) Is that the temp of the mat is higher than the temp of the substrate (1/2" higher).
This is pretty standard i would of thought, Aspen is a good insulator and will stop the heat coming through.
If your snake spends most of its time on the substrate in the hide then this is where your stat probe should be.
So its useles having the mat 30c if the snake is sitting 0.5 inch above it where it is 22c for example.
In answer to your last question (where should the 27c-30c be read from), i would suggest its taken from wherever your snake spends most of its time when in the hot end. My corn doesnt burrow so i put the probes on top of the substrate, which is where she will be lying.
Hope this helps
Gaz |
0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 27/01/2010 : 11:55:25
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Also, as bengy says above, you could use a piece of vinyl flooring on top of the mat and then little or no substrate in the hide.
Then put your probe in the hide, on top of the matting.
And you are guaranteed to be reading from where the snake is lying.
Gaz |
0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 27/01/2010 : 16:45:19
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I agree totally Gaz I have mine set up exactly like that now and I have been able to maintain a steady 28.5 all day. Colin is not a burrower so whats the sence in providing 28 degrees at the mat if he has to burrow for it? I am intending to adopt the vinyl tile method next week when I am in town but for now i am sticking with 28 at substrate level. One thing I would say is those of you that dont already have a digital thermometer with a probe...go get one. I previously relied on those round dial types (they were supplied with the vivs and I have found them to be up to two degrees inaccurate)) and a boots digital thermometer (which turned out to be fairly accurate although it read "air temp" and not substrate temp)
I have found (and its only my personal opinion) that by taping the thermometer and stat probs together you can attain far more accurate temp readings at the exact place your snake hides to thermoregulate. Its just my opinion I am sure we all do it a manner of ways but it works for me although I am going to tweak that a little when I get some vinyl tiles.
Incidently can you use vinyl on a roll the type that has a spongy underlay (worried it may burn or give off some kinda gas)as I have some of that already I can pinch. If not which type of tile is best to use?
Cheers
Steve
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1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 27/01/2010 : 17:24:23
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As far as i can gather, you have to be very careful using tape or adhesive of any type in the viv/faun.
Snakes can cause themselves alot of injury on it.
I think the best thing is to get a piece of standard vinyl flooring and use aquarium silicone.
Thanks
Gaz
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0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 27/01/2010 : 18:10:28
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| I stand corrected gaz that is a good point some tapes can be harmful to snakes I used cable ties to attach the two probes together |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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n/a
deleted
378 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2010 : 12:27:07
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quote:
Originally posted by elament
I stand corrected gaz that is a good point some tapes can be harmful to snakes I used cable ties to attach the two probes together
Yes thats the best way.
EDIT: If you're intending to use cable ties ensure that when you cut off the waste end you round the edges. We wouldn't want to scratch poor snakey! |
0.1.0 Anery corn- LegLess
1.0.0 Carolina corn- NoFeet
1.0.0 Syrian hamster- Jabba
0.2.0 Albino ferrets- Mable & Sue
1.0.0 Cat- Ned |
Edited by - n/a on 29/01/2010 14:45:01 |
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gingerpony
Queen Bee
United Kingdom
10455 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2010 : 08:11:19
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| or an alternative is to rubber-band the probes together like i do.................. |
cornsnakes, ratsnakes, bullsnakes, boas and day geckos
Location:Leeds/York/Selby area |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2010 : 09:36:30
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| Thas a flippin brilliant idea GP why didnt i think of that? |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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dinner83
Hatchling
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2010 : 13:37:34
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| i have a glass viv and my heat mat is under it not in it so where should i have my therm and stat probe, directly on the glass or on top of the aspen? or would it be better to move the mat inside the viv? |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2010 : 18:55:37
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| where have you got it now dinner? |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
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dinner83
Hatchling
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2010 : 19:08:21
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| i have just bought it because when i got the snakes of my sis there was just a heat mat, so havent put it in yet |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2010 : 20:23:48
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ah right well if you have read this thread then you will know the hazzrds of having a heatmat inside the tank. If you do this you MUST make sure the snake cannot get underneath the mat. If you put the probe on top of the glass remember that aspen is a good insulator and the temp at substrate level will be quite a few degrees below what your stat is set for. Therefore your snake will have to burrow to get nearer the heat (which they will do they aint stupid). Whereas if you set the probe for your stat at substrate level I would imagine the heatmat would have to be chucking out quite a bit of heat to penetrate through a plate of glass and the aspen and still maintain a steady 27-30 degrees which is what corns need. Ideally (and I am no expert feel free to correct me guys/girls) the temp should be at 27-30 degrees c where your snake will sit to get warm so if your snake is on the substrate then it should be measured at substrate level.
Personally I would recomend that you get yourself a thermometer with a probe also and rubber band the two probes together so you can measure the temprature at the exact point where the probe for the stat is. Above all else to echo what has already been said on this thread NEVER trust the dial on your thermostat they very rarely do what you set em for. Whatever you do get that thermostat set up as soon as you can heating a viv with just a mat (unregulated) is not recommended |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
Edited by - elament on 30/01/2010 20:27:39 |
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dinner83
Hatchling
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2010 : 20:42:56
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| thanks for the advice i will get it put in now and i have got a digital thermometer ordered hopefully will be here on mon fingers crossed. thanks again phil |
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elament
Yearling
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2010 : 20:58:25
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| Have you got a thermometer you can use now, even if its a dial one dont trust that dial on the thermostat! |
1.1.0 Amel Corns Colin and Xena
1.0.0 Dog Talan
1.1.0 Cats Wotsit and Willow
1.0.0 Ferret Chaos
Location: Lowestoft Suffolk |
Edited by - elament on 30/01/2010 21:01:17 |
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Temperature Differences
