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Isoldael
Yearling
Netherlands
999 Posts |
 Posted - 04/12/2013 : 22:11:38
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Hey all,
I have a question that's been bugging me for a while. Some years ago I bought Jake at a snake expo. I handled him there and all seemed fine (although he was a little wild), so I took him home with me.
After letting him settle in for a while, I found out that he was in fact not settled in at all. He rattled at me, struck at me and just generally acted very stressed.
Over the years he has calmed down -a little-, meaning that I can pick him up without too much rattling and he doesn't strike at me anymore. He is still quite tense all the time though, even when I look at him in his viv from across the room.
And that's my dilemma - while Jake is more than welcome to stay here for the rest of his life (that's why I bought him after all), he doesn't seem to be particularly at ease here. The only time he was more relaxed was when I had him cohabbed with Saphira (no rattling at all then and not so tense when being picked up), but due to Saphira's surgery I can't do that anymore. I've tried some other stuff like different viv setups with more cover, all the normal tricks in the book to calm a snake down, but to no avail.
I think I'm down to two options now (if you have any other ideas, please let me know):
- I keep Jake and try to cause him as little stress as possible
- I try to find him a home where he has more space, is handled less frequently and feels more at ease
I would be very sad to see him go, as he's very dear to me even if he doesn't like me much, but I would seriously consider it if I could find him a good home. On the other hand, I don't really want to give up on him and still hope he'll somehow get less stressed.
What would you do in my place? What do you feel is best for Jake?
Thanks in advance :)
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2013 : 23:04:29
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How old is Jake?
Could it be that perhaps he just needs to get used to living alone? It will be a big change for him to deal with. Some snakes just seem to be a little on the wilder side, some seem to grow out of it and others don't. My Kali isn't too keen on being handled compared to my others but I think that's just her. She rattles her tail and does the shoving thing with her coils sometimes too. Otherwise, she is a happy snake (I think?), her appetite is second to none and she is healthy. I think being with me is much less stressful than being in the wild would be. No dangers to worry about and the meals (and mates!) come right to her with little or no effort on her part! |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
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Isoldael
Yearling
Netherlands
999 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2013 : 23:14:01
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| Jake is an estimated 6-7 years old now and has been separated for about 9 months now. It's not just when I handle that he seems stressed though, it's more... whenever I see him :( So, not sure what to do really |
1.0 anery stripe (Nash)
1.0 hypo pewter (Loki)
1.0 bloodred het amel, charcoal, hypo, stripe 50% phet anery, lavender (Kasumi)
0.1 grey background normal het amel (Saphira)
0.1 tessera het amel, anery, stripe (Lilith)
0.1 amel (Aurora)
0.1 hypo bloodred het anery, charcoal, stripe 50% phet amel, lavender (Mara)
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ozziesmum
Yearling
United Kingdom
736 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 11:31:39
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| Is he just like it with you or all of your family, if it's just you then maybe with a bit more time he will learn to relax if it's with all of your family then it looks like it is just him being him and perhaps he just needs to be a hands off little man to live a happy stress free life. |
Jane.
   
Oscar Black Lab, Saffron, Merlin and Mischief the cats, assorted fish, Rhubarb & Custard the corns, Tuppence the Tortoise, Tripod the Leopard Gecko.
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Lee
Yearling
United Kingdom
522 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 12:13:35
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I know it's said that corns shouldn't live together but I have 2 sisters (5 months) that were together when I bought them and I keep them together now. They are inseparable, their viv is a good sze with 6 or 7 places to hide, 2 hides next to each other on the warm and 2 on the cool with others dotted around however they are ALWAYS together, no matter what time I look they are never apart despite there not being only one 'premium' hide.
I will separate once they get bigger but I can honestly say they have not been apart in the 4 months I've had them, if one is out, the other is out, if one is in a hide no matter how small, the other is crammed in there too. I know they are solitary creatures but they seem to like being together.
Just my view. |
1.2.4 Corn Snakes - Carolina, 2 x Bloodred het Lavender, Amel, Snow, Anery and Carolina.
0.0.1 Cali King - Ziggy - escaped!!
RIP Princess x |
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 14:39:26
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| I don't see that finding another home will make much difference - if he doesn't like handling then that won't change, so he's better off with you who knows what he is like and is happy to do what is best for him and not handle him. One thing though - you say he seems stresed when you look over at him in his viv - but if he was stressed surely he would be hidden away so wouldn't be visible? If he is out in the open then he must be feeling secure not stressed? Why not try minimal handling for a month and see what happens? Make sure 3 sides of his viv are covered if he is in a glass one and that he has tons of hides etc. |
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yalovit
Hatchling
United Kingdom
199 Posts |
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Isoldael
Yearling
Netherlands
999 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 23:17:51
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I already barely handle him - only to feed as I'm not comfortable with feeding inside the viv due to the risk of impaction and such. And yes, he does come out of hiding when he thinks no one is watching, only to shoot back into hiding or start rattling when he spots anything that moves. The only reason I'm considering letting someone else care for him is that they might be able to offer him more space for instance, or perhaps a fellow snake to cohab with as he seemed a lot better like that.
Oh well... :( I just feel sad for him when I see all my other snakes climbing about, exploring, peeking outside and such. |
1.0 anery stripe (Nash)
1.0 hypo pewter (Loki)
1.0 bloodred het amel, charcoal, hypo, stripe 50% phet anery, lavender (Kasumi)
0.1 grey background normal het amel (Saphira)
0.1 tessera het amel, anery, stripe (Lilith)
0.1 amel (Aurora)
0.1 hypo bloodred het anery, charcoal, stripe 50% phet amel, lavender (Mara)
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2013 : 08:52:57
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Isoldael, I have a similar thing with my Bazilishka. Like Jake, she has never fully tamed, she's often very tense, when out, and if she so much as spots me - on the odd occasion I see her roaming the viv - she either freezes in pure terror, or bolts back in the hide.
Last time she bolted, she hit herself really hard on a branch, in the process, she bolted backwards, as fast as her normal strike speed  .
I often think, if I could somehow fly her to US and release her, she would have absolutely no problem surviving - she already behaves like a wild snake, all her instincts to hide, move around with a complete stealth, hunting, lightning fast strikes are all there.
Compared with her, Seb is totally domesticated - out all the time, sleeps curled up in the open, threatens to attack cats, runs towards any human he sees - he wouldn't last 10 minutes in the wild....
Perhaps Jake is like Baz - all his wild instincts are there - unchanged.
I think there's one other option, though it might sound too extreme, too risky, too expensive, so probably not viable, but still:
I understand it would be dangerous for Saphira, if she had eggs, after her op she would be unable to lay them- but what if she decides to lay slugs? Would you consider having her spayed? That way, she would be safe to live with Jake again, and safe from the possibility of laying slugs, too.
Alternatively, you could get another female to live with him, if that's what kept him happy ( I'm not condoning cohabiting, btw, but there have been the odd anecdotal evidence, that very occasionally, some snakes can benefit from it, and Jake obviously did ). Problem is, they'd keep breeding...
I wouldn't give him up. It doesn't sound to me, like he's going to change his personality, whoever he's with, or however much space/ hides he's given, it's just the way he is.
You know him well, and look after him well, so I reckon he's better of with you, then someone, who might get bored with him after year or two.
Just my ( very long  ) ideas.... sorry for the essay . |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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Isoldael
Yearling
Netherlands
999 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2013 : 10:04:21
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Thanks to everyone for their posts so far <3
Razee - no worries about "essays"! I very much appreciate your post and it's good to see that I'm not alone in this. Like Seb I also think that Jake would be absolutely fine in the wild, but sadly that's not an option.
As for Saphira - so far she seems fine, luckily. She's never laid slugs before so I pray that she won't get gravid with them, but I'll just have to wait (getting her a hormonal implant to prevent that would also be an option). Getting her spayed might be possible, but the dangers of anesthesia as well as the risk of infection in reptiles are too great for my taste - I don't want to lose her :(
I do have two more females, but they're both only about 1,5 years old and not nearly big enough to be housed with Jake. Once they are big enough, one of them might be an option (the other is his daughter and... it just doesn't seem right, even if snakes don't have such scruples :p). I might also try to house him with Nash, my male anery stripe, once he's big enough, just to see if they will get along even though they are both male. That would solve the problem of unwanted breeding and perhaps keep Jake happy. Nash is also a year and a half old though, so gonna take a while before he's up to size...
Anyway, thanks again for your advice, guys :) |
1.0 anery stripe (Nash)
1.0 hypo pewter (Loki)
1.0 bloodred het amel, charcoal, hypo, stripe 50% phet anery, lavender (Kasumi)
0.1 grey background normal het amel (Saphira)
0.1 tessera het amel, anery, stripe (Lilith)
0.1 amel (Aurora)
0.1 hypo bloodred het anery, charcoal, stripe 50% phet amel, lavender (Mara)
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2013 : 20:28:11
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| No, I didn't think it would be an easy option with Saphira... Jake will just have to wait for one of the others :-) |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2013 : 17:58:41
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| I have a stressy girl, I can handle her a lot better than I used too but I never handle her as much as the other snakes as its clear she doesn't appreciate it. How big is his viv? Smaller vivs can help a lot as well as being out the way of people traffic, I've seen a massive improvement with my girl. I also found her being in another room away from other snakes helped, weather its cause she didnt "like" the other snakes or that room was people of less noise I don't know. I don't see how cohabbing helps. The reason you may feel it worked in the past as to a snake, another snake its another piece of decoration of a place to hid in the viv if its not breeding season. The worst thing can do in my opinion is to cohabit a stressy snake as the risks increase. |
   
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
Edited by - Sta~ple on 07/12/2013 18:00:03 |
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Isoldael
Yearling
Netherlands
999 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 17:12:10
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| My theory for why cohabbing made him much less stressed, is that he constantly had something else moving around him / touching him, which got him used to the sight and feeling. He certainly didn't do any worse when he was cohabbed ^^ |
1.0 anery stripe (Nash)
1.0 hypo pewter (Loki)
1.0 bloodred het amel, charcoal, hypo, stripe 50% phet anery, lavender (Kasumi)
0.1 grey background normal het amel (Saphira)
0.1 tessera het amel, anery, stripe (Lilith)
0.1 amel (Aurora)
0.1 hypo bloodred het anery, charcoal, stripe 50% phet amel, lavender (Mara)
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 17:42:01
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| I have seen more than 1 post in other places where snakes have actually been better of co-habbing than separated. Obviously we are not going to get into a co-habbing discussion or gmac will ban us lol!! But I know of people who separated snakes after they had been cohabbed, and both snakes stopped eating and generally seemed very 'unhappy'. After 6 months they finally gave in, put the snakes back together and they both started eating again and went back to normal behaviour. I don't think co-habbing is as black and white as I used to, I just don't think it should be done by a newbie who doesn't know their snakes! It sounds like Jake may be one of those snakes for who cohabbing is actually a good thing. |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2013 : 20:26:36
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| I think its black and white. One member here used to cohabb as otherwise one snake was "stressy", had done it for many years. One day, one decided to snack on the other. I don't think cohabbing as it makes your snakes "less stressy" is any excuse as the risk are still there. I'd rather have a stressy snake than be one snake down. My opinion of course. |
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
Edited by - Sta~ple on 08/12/2013 20:27:14 |
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Isoldael
Yearling
Netherlands
999 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2013 : 11:27:09
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| Personally I've never heard of a case of cannibalism where it didn't have one more direct cause (e.g. feeding together, not feeding the snakes for very long, cohabbing two snakes of very different sizes, etc.). Anyway, smart bunny is right, I shouldn't be starting that discussion here :P |
1.0 anery stripe (Nash)
1.0 hypo pewter (Loki)
1.0 bloodred het amel, charcoal, hypo, stripe 50% phet anery, lavender (Kasumi)
0.1 grey background normal het amel (Saphira)
0.1 tessera het amel, anery, stripe (Lilith)
0.1 amel (Aurora)
0.1 hypo bloodred het anery, charcoal, stripe 50% phet amel, lavender (Mara)
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 16/12/2013 : 10:46:57
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| Perhaps read the cohabiting thread in the sticky section then :p I know its a million pages long lol but it does happen. The only snakes where most people will say cohabiting is fine is garter snakes as far as I know. |
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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Could use advice - stressed snake
