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BILMAN
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
 Posted - 26/05/2013 : 17:31:30
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Can someone show me pictures of the differences of male and female snakes?
When I bought Snakey, the woman said that all the eggs were kept at a certain temperature where you wouldn't know if they would be male or female. She said a higher temperature would be one gender and a lower temperature would be the other gender, and in between would be where you won't know until they hatch.
We thought Snakey was a female, but then after about maybe a year we gave a description of his tail and we were told Snakey was a boy.
I kinda want Snakey to be a girl, but a boy is okay too.
These pictures will actually let me know for sure which gender Snakey is.......hopefully.
I don't want to probe my snake or do all the stuff, and only am interested in pictures.
Also, some pictures of an overweight snake would also expand my knowledge on snake weight.
Thanks people :) |
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herriotfan
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5853 Posts |
Posted - 26/05/2013 : 17:50:01
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I'm not sure that incubating at certain temperatures works well for snakes.
Photos will bring fairly random opinions and isn't a good way of sexing.
Visual ways tend to be the length of the tail and it's not a very reliable way, especially if you don't have a few snakes of both sexes for comparison.
The best ways are popping for younger snakes and probing for the older ones.
Both of these should only be done by somebody who knows what they're doing or the snake could suffer internal damage.
If you don't plan on breeding I'd say just be happy with your snake whatever....as I'm sure you are!!!  |
Husband....Very Understanding!!! (Phil)
Son & Daughter (Kevin & Carol)
Granddaughter (Eva)
3.4.0 Cornsnakes Amel (Sidney) Caramel Stripe (Sultan) Amber (Cleo) Carolina (Phoebe) Anery Motley Stripe (Penny) Snow (Lily) Caramel (Holmes)
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Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 26/05/2013 : 18:24:38
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Some snakes, such as hognoses, have visible differences between male and female tails, corns really don't (well it's extremely difficult to tell anyway unless, as Herriotfan says, you have several to compare together, and even then it's highly unreliable!). Even probing is very often proven to be incorrect when so-called males suddenly produce eggs etc!
As for overweight snakes, there are plenty on this thread  http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11891
Edit: Oh and incubation temperatures do make a difference in lizards, but I don't believe they do in snakes - well not corns anyway! |
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Edited by - smart bunny on 26/05/2013 18:25:57 |
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lupi lou
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3670 Posts |
Posted - 26/05/2013 : 19:06:31
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| the theory with tails is that a males tail will be longer and taper off gradually after the vent with the females tail being shorter and tapering off straight after the vent. As the others have said though this is no way near 100% accurate. I know incubation temps influence the sex of Leopard geckos but no too sure if its the same with snakes. |
 
1.0.1 Corns
0.1.0 Dog: springer
1.0.0 Horse
0.4.0 Gerbils
2.2.0 Leopard gecko
0.2.0 Cave gecko |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 26/05/2013 : 22:34:18
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As far as I've been able to research the temperature that eggs are incubated at doesn't have any effect on sex. The only thing I've found is that 'recent research indicates that some variation in temperature may actually produce a more even sex ratio in the hatchlings and produce larger, stronger hatchlings'. Unfortunately you will find that you are told a lot of things that are wrong about corns and looking after them, even by breeders and at reptile shops  . It's why I always check anything I'm told on here before I believe it  .
As has been said, telling the sex from the tail is not easily done, if possible at all. As Lupi has said, it's all to do with length, and you can supposedly tell from scale count as well. I don't see how you can easily do this unless you have snakes of different sexes but similar ages and sizes together to compare.
Herriotfan has mentioned the usual ways of sexing a snake, popping and probing....and I am one of those who has had a probed 'male' lay eggs  !
Personally I don't feel that the sex of the snake matters unless you are planning on breeding, although I know some people do just like to know. The only reason Silvi got probed was because I had HER at my local reptile shop for them to check a lump that had appeared. I haven't put my other 2 snakes through the stress of the travel and the procedure itself....and don't plan to. But I do understand if you do want to find out.
The thread Smartbunny has direct you to about overweight snakes is brilliant . The most important fact is the shape of the snake if you cut it in half....sounds bizarre, I know  . Triangular = skinny, loaf-shaped = perfect and circular = overweight.
Hope that helps.
Xxx
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BILMAN
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
Posted - 27/05/2013 : 19:58:25
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Thanks for the info people :)
Kellog, I saw that link smart bunny posted a few weeks ago and that is when I started giving Snakey cardboard tubes :) But I also read that you can tell if a snake is overweight if it has 'hips', but can you show me on any snake picture where these hips would be. English isn't my first language so I know I am probably sounding like an idiot on this site :P
Also, will a female snake lay eggs when it is older, like a chicken, or will it have to reproduce? |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 27/05/2013 : 23:04:29
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You are doing very well if English isn't your first language. I've heard English people that make less sense
This is where the 'hips' would be on a corn snake 
Some female corn snakes lay infertile eggs when they are older even when they don't reproduce but not all do.
I like the scale counting technique to decide if a corn snake is female or male. It isn't as reliable as other more invasive methods but it has been 100% accurate with my 6 corn snakes and if you don't want to breed then it isn't important to be as certain. All you do is count the scales from vent to tail tip. It is easiest to count them on a shed skin than trying to do it on a snake. Count one row of scales then double it. If the number is over 140 the snake is most likely a male. If the number is under 130 it is most likely a female. If between 130 and 140 then it isn't possible to tell using this method.
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2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 28/05/2013 : 09:24:10
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I'd never have known English wasn't your first language, so don't worry about that  . You're making more sense than I do a lot of the time  !
That's such good example of 'hips' Smartbunny, if I can get permission can I steal it to add to the thread on overweight snakes?
My Silvi has laid slugs, infertile eggs, twice now. She's never been with a male and its something that some females will do, but there's nothing you can do to stop it. As long as the female is healthy and of a good weight it hopefully isn't an issue....but obviously that isn't a guarantee, as laying eggs, whether they are planned, unplanned or slugs, can be dangerous for females.
That's very interesting about the scale count Smartbunny, I'll have to remember that as its a good way for people to get a good idea of what sex their snake is without putting it through the stress of probing....as long as they are aware that it isn't foolproof.
Xxx
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BILMAN
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
Posted - 28/05/2013 : 23:56:29
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Haha, I have noticed that my English is a lot better than most of the English people I know, in spelling, pronounciation (THink and not Fink, and knowing the difference between there, their and they're, and to and too, etc.
Moppet, will all corn snakes have those hips? Snakey does and after browsing this site more, I have a feeling that that doesn't mean he is overweight. He also just shedded his skin a couple of weeks ago and so I'll count the scales tomorrow or so.
Kellog, can you tell me how laying an egg could be dangerous for a female please? Also, how you can tell if it has hurt or damaged the snake, and what you can do (before going to a vet) to help the snake? |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 29/05/2013 : 09:23:35
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Most snakes shouldn't have 'hips' like that, it should be a smooth tapering down to the tail, unless the snake is preparing to do a large poo in which case there might be a bulge  .
When laying eggs a female snake can become egg-bound. This is where an egg gets stuck and needs to be 'helped out' by baths and gentle massages, I think, or it may even need surgery. Snakes do die from this, it's one big reason why I'd never breed. The other issue is 'the incredible drain on body resources that egg production places on the female. If not in perfect health, a female can become severely weakened and may succumb to renal failure or disease'.
Unfortunately you can't do anything about a female laying infertile eggs, but from what I can work out its not 'the norm' for them to do so....a few do but the majority. The only thing you can do is make sure your female is as healthy as possible and keep your fingers crossed that she won't lay slugs....and if she does that it won't be an issue. I know that having laid out all the dangers it seems scary , but my Silvi is stunted in her growth because she wasn't cared for properly before I got her. She's very short and I struggle to get her to 400g, even though she's an adult. Despite this she's survived laying 2 clutches of slugs over the last 3 years. Yes, I was worried I would lose her, but only because I know she's not as strong as normal females her age....so if she can do it then most other females can .
Xxx
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mjpeters
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1539 Posts |
Posted - 29/05/2013 : 14:37:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Moppet
I like the scale counting technique to decide if a corn snake is female or male. It isn't as reliable as other more invasive methods but it has been 100% accurate with my 6 corn snakes and if you don't want to breed then it isn't important to be as certain. All you do is count the scales from vent to tail tip. It is easiest to count them on a shed skin than trying to do it on a snake. Count one row of scales then double it. If the number is over 140 the snake is most likely a male. If the number is under 130 it is most likely a female. If between 130 and 140 then it isn't possible to tell using this method.
I guess thats not going to work with snakes that have lost part of their tail?Thought I'd mention it because our dear Georgey saw the vet(a snakey vet)and he told me that he'd never know that George had a bit missing.There must be others out there with bits missing too |
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BILMAN
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2013 : 01:16:37
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| Kellog, so does that mean that the snake Moppet showed is overweight then, because of the 'hips'? So then Snakey is overweight too :P How do I make him lose weight? I read on that overweight snake topic that you should play with it so it has to climb in your hands, and also the cardboard rolls. Any other more techniques? |
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2013 : 08:38:35
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The snake in Moppet's picture is very overweight, yes! Another favourite exercise is climbing stairs. How often and what size mouse do you feed Snakey?
Oh, and your English is amazing, I'd never have realised it's not your first language! May I ask where you are from? |
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Edited by - smart bunny on 30/05/2013 08:39:08 |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2013 : 11:09:38
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Sorry, should have explained myself better. I always use more words than necessary . As Smartbunny has said, yes that snake is overweight....and her question about feeding is important. If Snakey is overweight then not only will he need exercise but also a change in his feeds. How much does he weigh?
Exercise can be anything you can think of....as much handling as possible, stairs are really good, getting the snake to climb furniture or even make obstacle courses for it to explore on the floor, etc....
If you're concerned then posting a pic may help us judge better....although you can't always tell from a pic.
Xxx
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BILMAN
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
Posted - 31/05/2013 : 23:25:41
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smart bunny, i feed Snakey one large mouse every week in Winter, and in Summer I feed him two large mice every week, but these "large" mice look pretty medium to me. And sometimes he won't eat fora a week or two, I think three weeks at maximum.
I was born in Malaysia and lived there for seven years, but moved to UK for a better education. I'm half English and half Malay. My English I know is very good, but I still make mistakes when it comes to questions and answering :P In fact, I would say that English is a joint first language :)
Kellog, I'm not sure about Snakey's weight as I haven't weighed him for some time. He has a climbing structure I made from bamboo and string for him which he almost never uses, and I'm going to make a bamboo ladder for him when my mother cuts some fresh bamboo down. He also has a few cardboard rolls, with more to come.
I'll get a picture of him when I can.
Also, can someone show me a picture of a normal weight snake please? Just so I can get an idea.
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 31/05/2013 : 23:53:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kellog
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That's such good example of 'hips' Smartbunny, if I can get permission can I steal it to add to the thread on overweight snakes?
...
That's very interesting about the scale count Smartbunny, I'll have to remember that as its a good way for people to get a good idea of what sex their snake is without putting it through the stress of probing....as long as they are aware that it isn't foolproof.
...
Do you mean me? |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2013 : 00:06:20
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Most corn snakes don't have hips.
Not all corn snakes which have hips are overweight. Usually it is females which get them and from the research I did into it, they are not always overweight. In fact, from the small section of the snake that is visible in the photo I put on here, that snake doesn't appear to be overweight apart from the hips. I think sometimes snakes which have been overweight in the past then lost weight do keep the 'hips'.
I think it is more common for females who have laid eggs to get hips and they sometimes just never go away.
I have lots of 'normal weight' snakes. I am more than happy to put photos up for you
This is Kali, my adult. She is what I would call a normal weight, maybe at the top end of normal as I was fattening her up to breed
mjpeters - I guess if a snake has lost part of their tail then the count wouldn't be normal. All of my snakes have one scale at the end of their tail which is longer than the ones before it and slightly 'pointy' looking but you have to look very very closely. I don't know whether a snake who has lost a little of their tail would be missing the last 'pointy' scale or if the remaining scale would appear to be that shape. |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
Edited by - Moppet on 01/06/2013 00:29:36 |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2013 : 00:27:13
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quote:
Originally posted by BILMAN
smart bunny, i feed Snakey one large mouse every week in Winter, and in Summer I feed him two large mice every week, but these "large" mice look pretty medium to me. And sometimes he won't eat fora a week or two, I think three weeks at maximum.
If Snakey is overweight then you would need to reduce the amount you are feeding him. My adult Kali normally gets one large every 10 to 14 days when I'm not breeding her.
I think the easiest way to tell if they are overweight is to imagine that you cut them in half. The shape of the crossection (the bit where you imagine that you cut) tells you if they are overweight or not. It should be the shape of a loaf of bread or an upside down U. If it is a circle then your snake is overweight. If it is more like a triangle then they are underweight. |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2013 : 08:48:31
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quote:
Originally posted by BILMAN
smart bunny, i feed Snakey one large mouse every week in Winter, and in Summer I feed him two large mice every week, but these "large" mice look pretty medium to me. And sometimes he won't eat fora a week or two, I think three weeks at maximum.
Oh, erm that sounds like quite a lot! The advice for an adult snake is one large mouse every 10-14 days, so 2 a week and your snake is probably overweight to be honest.
Corno was on 1 large weekly, and she is not yet 2 so is still growing, but I was worried that she was starting to get maybe slightly too rounded, so I dropped her back to 1 large every 10-14 days to prevent her becoming overweight.
Also it is normal for males to go off their food for a while during breeding season, anything up to 4 months.
Lol Moppet, I noticed but didn't want to say anything, didn't want to embarrass our new mod, she might start using special powers on us ;) |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2013 : 10:30:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Moppet
quote:
Originally posted by Kellog
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That's such good example of 'hips' Smartbunny, if I can get permission can I steal it to add to the thread on overweight snakes?........
Do you mean me?
quote:
Originally posted by smart bunny
Lol Moppet, I noticed but didn't want to say anything, didn't want to embarrass our new mod, she might start using special powers on us ;)
*sighs* I'm never going to live this down am I.....constantly confusing people . You are safe from my special Mod powers....I only use them when it's to my advantage .
What BOTH SMARTBUNNY AND MOPPET have said is right Bilman, you are probably over-feeding Snakey at the moment. The problem is that snakes are opportunistic feeders and will eat whatever is on offer if they feel like it, whether they need it or not. The weeks when he doesn't eat may be down to breeding season but I think it might be that he's just full. Generally large mice weigh 19 - 25g, so if you weigh them you'll get an idea as to whether they are larges or mediums. I'm the same at Smartbunny and Moppet .....I feed my adult a large every 10 days. He no longer needs the food to grow, so it's just enough to maintain him. How old is Snakey? It's a good idea to keep a record of his weight, it is a good indicator of health and whether there are any problems. I weigh mine before each feed, because then it's regular and I know they are 'empty' of poo that will add to their weight.
Sorry, I know I've rambled and hope I've made some sort of sense. English is my first and only language but my brain fog makes it seem as though it isn't !
Xxx
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BILMAN
Snake Mite
17 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2013 : 15:56:59
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Moppet, smart bunny, Kellog, I was told to feed those amounts by my old pet shop guy. I guess he was wrong :P I had a friend form school who used to have a Corn Snake but his family went on holiday and gave it to that same pet shop guy to look after till they got back, and when they returned to pet shop guy, my friend held his dead snake in his hands. I guess that should have been a clue that that guy was pretty bad, with advice and caring.
I guess Snakey is going on a diet then, and extra handling and I'll need to get to work on his bamboo ladder as soon as my mother cuts the bamboo down :P
Does anyone know how quickly Corn Snakes will lose weight? |
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Male or Female snake?
