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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
 Posted - 01/03/2013 : 04:06:20
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Just had Cereus out for a cuddle and I remembered that Butter is supposed to be a Caramel x Amel. See this sort of makes sense but not completely. If they were a Caramel x Amel then surely they'd carry some red in them rather than yellow and white? I was originally told that Butter's were made up of 3 genes - Amel, Snow and Caramel. I personally think they look more like Caramel x Snow 
Just me randomly pondering at gone 4am on a Friday morning lol. |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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Dancross0
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2013 : 06:06:43
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Amel removes the black pigment, and caramel removes the red. Anery removes the red and yellow pigments (the yellow on anerys faces and neck is a build up of carotenoids from their food).
A snake with anery, caramel and amel is called a Xanthic snow, which means yellow snow. Wonder why they didn't call it that... |
Aguna CB11 Anery - Typhon CB12 Amber - Plissken CB08 Carolina - Iara CB11 Caramel
Indra CB12 Lavender (?) - Evren CB12 Carolina (?) - Ophis CB11 Hypo Lavender - Sirae CB11 Ghost Motley
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Jayclk
Hatchling
United Kingdom
222 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2013 : 06:08:40
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damn that's complicated for this time of the morning lol
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0.0.1 Corn (Pebble)
0.0.1 Corn (Pecan)
0.0.1 Corn (Peaches)
1.0.0 Corn/Rat (Paco)
0.1.0 BCI (Penny)
0.0.1 Normal royal (Reagan)
1.0.0 Crested Gecko (Gizmo)
0.1.0 Westie - (scooby)
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2013 : 10:36:20
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| Aye it is lol. And Ah OK, forgot about Caramel removing red lol. |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2013 : 10:38:36
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Anery removes the red and yellow pigments (the yellow on anerys faces and neck is a build up of carotenoids from their food).
Really, didn't know that... so that would account for the yellow on snows too - but if that were the case, how come whiteouts/blizzards stay white??? |
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Dancross0
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2013 : 14:36:14
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Charcoal based morphs have less noticeable yellow build up in them, must be something to do with now charcoal expresses itself...
http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/charcoal/?sid=
As described on Ians Viv - "sometimes lacking the yellow colouring."
I could point out that due to when the term anerythristic (lacking red) was coined, caramel wasn't understood. But true anerythristic corns would be caramels, and what we call anerythristic snakes should be called axanthic. But that would call for a massive renaming of a lot of stuff... |
Aguna CB11 Anery - Typhon CB12 Amber - Plissken CB08 Carolina - Iara CB11 Caramel
Indra CB12 Lavender (?) - Evren CB12 Carolina (?) - Ophis CB11 Hypo Lavender - Sirae CB11 Ghost Motley
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2013 : 16:35:06
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| Ahhhh that does make a lot more sense now, thanks :) I had wondered about needing another category for 'no yellow' lol! |
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2013 : 16:37:19
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| Wow... This is actually all very interesting. I want to try and learn a bit more about corn snake genetics because I've been wondering about things a lot lately and if I bred my 2. I've been looking at their markings, Sakana has some "V" shapes down her back and loads of odd and weird markings on her neck. Cereus has crosses down his neck and some really funky markings down his back. I've been wondering if they could possibly produce some "Aztecs" with how weird their markings are? |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
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Dancross0
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1315 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2013 : 02:50:30
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quote:
Originally posted by eeji
anery doesn't remove yellow, just red.
I think this is wrong, and here is why...
Reply no. 208
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13577&highlight=ultra+mystery&page=21
And this is also mentioned on page 162 of 'Corn Snakes; The comprehensive owner's guide' (Kathy and Bill Love) under the colour mutations section for anery.
"...a corn with type A anerythrism possesses a recessive genetic defect that leaves it unable to form red and most yellow pigments..."
Page 162 + 163 "No other colour is evident except traces of yellow on the lower throat, chin, and labial (lips) areas, and these traces may be formed by the seperate accumulation of carotenoids (red and yellow pigments often contained in natural foods)."
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Aguna CB11 Anery - Typhon CB12 Amber - Plissken CB08 Carolina - Iara CB11 Caramel
Indra CB12 Lavender (?) - Evren CB12 Carolina (?) - Ophis CB11 Hypo Lavender - Sirae CB11 Ghost Motley
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Edited by - Dancross0 on 03/03/2013 21:28:11 |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2013 : 21:41:07
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you cannot base something on the opinion of two people, one of which is a forum post in what seems a light hearted ranting thread.
If anery removes yellow, then can you explain my snow? (she's proven not het or homo caramel btw)......
also, this....
quote:
Page 162 + 163 "No other colour is evident except traces of yellow on the lower throat, chin, and labial (lips) areas, and these traces may be formed by the seperate accumulation of carotenoids (red and yellow pigments often contained in natural foods)."
...could also apply to every other morph, and indeed the natural colour of the cornsnake if they think yellow is formed from purely food sources in anery.
Charcoal also removes red, charcoals eat the same mice as anerys, yet the vast majority have very little yellow, the same can be said for lavender too.
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Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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Edited by - eeji on 03/03/2013 21:46:26 |
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Dancross0
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1315 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2013 : 21:58:05
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Well, the yellow pigments are still funtioning in most other morphs, and in the case of charcoals and lavenders, the way the stored pigments are masked by the way the gene expresses itself.
Charcoals can still show yellow, and with it being a seperate gene from anery, it may affect the pigment productions in a slightly different way that maskes the yellow.
The way anerys develop yellow colouring as they age certainly gives a build up of carotenoids from food a strong reason for the yellow.
Anyways, I think that we may have to agree to dissagree about this. It's livened a slightly hungover sunday evening... |
Aguna CB11 Anery - Typhon CB12 Amber - Plissken CB08 Carolina - Iara CB11 Caramel
Indra CB12 Lavender (?) - Evren CB12 Carolina (?) - Ophis CB11 Hypo Lavender - Sirae CB11 Ghost Motley
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2013 : 22:54:09
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| So, wait... I'm confused... XD Does anyone else think that a Butter looks more like Caramel x Snow than Caramel x Amel even if it's proven that it's Caramel x Amel? |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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Dancross0
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1315 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2013 : 23:22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by eeji
if the yellow is caused by food sources, then the way a gene behaves should have no effect because the yellow colouring wouldn't be genetic?
Depends on how the gene effects the arrangement of the colour pigments. The yellow may be masked, or the genetic defects that causes the lack of reds and yellows somehow uses them. I don't know how it works, but it makes sense to me...
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Aguna CB11 Anery - Typhon CB12 Amber - Plissken CB08 Carolina - Iara CB11 Caramel
Indra CB12 Lavender (?) - Evren CB12 Carolina (?) - Ophis CB11 Hypo Lavender - Sirae CB11 Ghost Motley
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Dancross0
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1315 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2013 : 16:24:48
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quote:
Originally posted by eeji
you cannot base something on the opinion of two people, one of which is a forum post in what seems a light hearted ranting thread.
Been looking at this again, and it seems you didn't look at the link, so carrying on...
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13577&highlight=ultra+mystery&page=22
Reply no. 214
I'm more inclined to view Bill and Kathy Loves', Dr Bechtel (who bred the 1st amels in captivity, kickstarting the whole corn morphs...), and Rich Zuchowski's opinions. |
Aguna CB11 Anery - Typhon CB12 Amber - Plissken CB08 Carolina - Iara CB11 Caramel
Indra CB12 Lavender (?) - Evren CB12 Carolina (?) - Ophis CB11 Hypo Lavender - Sirae CB11 Ghost Motley
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2013 : 19:19:27
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i did read, and it is still opinion no matter the background of the person until there is some scientific back up and evidence. Yes I agree that these people are vastly experienced and there maybe is something in what they are saying.
I think the bottom line is because there hasn't been the intense study required things are still open to different interpretations simply because there is so much still to learn. |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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Just me wondering at 4am lol
