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Isoldael
Yearling
Netherlands
999 Posts |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
 Posted - 19/10/2012 : 12:59:44
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NO!
That's borderline cruelty in my opinion!!
That snake must be terrified, and even if its not its movement is so restricted..
chrlorine can't be good for them either if it does decide to get off :S
I disagree so strongly with stuff like this, its doing it for the owners amusement and not for the snakes benefit..
outrageous in my opinion. |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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Welshlamb
Yearling
United Kingdom
711 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2012 : 13:32:53
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| I think that's really DARK. Don't think many people are going to thumbs up this idea. I'd give it a miss |
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Isoldael
Yearling
Netherlands
999 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2012 : 13:41:55
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| Personally, I'm not sure why a snake would be terrified - the snake can swim, and yes, it moves, but so would the limbs of a tree, for instance. It could leave the floating bed at any time. As for chlorine, I wouldn't be stupid enough to try it in water that's cleaned with chlorine. I'd try it in our (cleaned) bathtub, or one of those inflatable pools for in the back yard, with the sides of the inflatable bed touching the side of the tub/pool, so the snake could leave any moment if it wanted to ^^ |
1.0 anery stripe (Nash)
1.0 hypo pewter (Loki)
1.0 bloodred het amel, charcoal, hypo, stripe 50% phet anery, lavender (Kasumi)
0.1 grey background normal het amel (Saphira)
0.1 tessera het amel, anery, stripe (Lilith)
0.1 amel (Aurora)
0.1 hypo bloodred het anery, charcoal, stripe 50% phet amel, lavender (Mara)
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Edited by - Isoldael on 19/10/2012 13:42:49 |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2012 : 15:59:53
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but why try it at all?
what is the snake getting out of it?
it is not natural, it would never happen in the wild where as it would climb trees in the wild.
this is very cruel, and yes the snake can swim, but they do not enjoy it.
It would just do it to escape.
im not having a go at you, but im studying animal management at college and our tutors would be OUTRAGED if they saw anything like this. Its not good for the welfare of the snake, and causes unecessary stress. |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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scottishbluebird
it is all my fault
United Kingdom
8403 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2012 : 16:14:01
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Photoshopped?
edit i looked again, i really dont think its real |
     
0.1.0 Corn - Kellogs
1.0.0 Hognose - Storm
0.1.0 Staffy - Lyla
1.0.0 Spaffy(staffy x springer)-Spyro
1.0.0 Ferret - Peanut R.I.P
0.1.0 Crestie - Fudge. Wish List - Pygmy hedgehog. Tropiocolotes |
Edited by - scottishbluebird on 19/10/2012 16:26:03 |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2012 : 18:03:45
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what makes you think its edited?
and why would someone make that on photoshop lol?
im not saying your wrong, im just saying its mad haha |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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Thorne Walker
Yearling
Canada
642 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2012 : 19:03:04
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quote:
Originally posted by QueenVic
what makes you think its edited?
and why would someone make that on photoshop lol?
im not saying your wrong, im just saying its mad haha
Why'd the bear climb up the mountain?
I could see the snake being a little worried about being so exposed from above which is exactly how they'd be in the middle of a backyard lawn.
I doubt the platform is inherently 'stressful'. It's just a little island, something that occurs with great frequency in the rivers and marches that are abundant in the natural world...
If the shadows are accurate the water isn't even that deep...
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1.0.0 CB'11 Volcano Corn 'Kitty'
0.0.1 CB'11 Russian Rat Snake 'Monster'
2.0.0 CB'04 Roof Rabbits 'Baka Neko-San' and 'Usagi Neko-San'
My Setup :http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27228
The Kids: http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26248 |
Edited by - Thorne Walker on 19/10/2012 19:03:23 |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2012 : 19:36:05
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corn snakes do not naturally float about on things in the wild.
I dont care what you say it is not normal for them and will cause stress in most cases.
and yes, it is very exposed and if the snake is anything like mine it does not like water.
even if the snake is fine, why risk it?
completely UNNECESSARY.
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0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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Isoldael
Yearling
Netherlands
999 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2012 : 20:24:28
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Why risk handling your snake? Why risk bathing them? Why risk keeping them as pets at all?
I enjoy keeping snakes, and I enjoy trying to find things that my snake enjoy. So far I've found out that they really enjoy hammock-like structures (e.g. a snake bag hanging from a branch in the viv), that Saphira enjoys being handled and Jake doesn't really, that Saphira LOVES to bathe in shallow water and swim around (she will actually get into the water on her own if I put her anywhere near it) while Jake prefers dry land. I know that Saphira enjoys exploring open spaces and climbing around the plants in the room, while Jake prefers to curl up somewhere out of sight.
I see no problem in experimenting with what your snake likes, as long as it's done safely and doesn't harm the snake. At any sign of (di)stress, you can easily remove them from the situation. And if you do find something they like, you can enrich their environment with it :)
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1.0 anery stripe (Nash)
1.0 hypo pewter (Loki)
1.0 bloodred het amel, charcoal, hypo, stripe 50% phet anery, lavender (Kasumi)
0.1 grey background normal het amel (Saphira)
0.1 tessera het amel, anery, stripe (Lilith)
0.1 amel (Aurora)
0.1 hypo bloodred het anery, charcoal, stripe 50% phet amel, lavender (Mara)
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Thorne Walker
Yearling
Canada
642 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2012 : 21:05:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Isoldael
I see no problem in experimenting with what your snake likes, as long as it's done safely and doesn't harm the snake. At any sign of (di)stress, you can easily remove them from the situation. And if you do find something they like, you can enrich their environment with it :)
+1
However you sugar coat it they are our prisoners, we have an obligation as gaolers to make their lives as fulfilling as we can.
ETA: What about a piece of styrofoam in the bathtub? You could use push pins to give them contact points and let them float in a few inches to see what they thought of it... |
1.0.0 CB'11 Volcano Corn 'Kitty'
0.0.1 CB'11 Russian Rat Snake 'Monster'
2.0.0 CB'04 Roof Rabbits 'Baka Neko-San' and 'Usagi Neko-San'
My Setup :http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27228
The Kids: http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26248 |
Edited by - Thorne Walker on 19/10/2012 21:09:40 |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 20/10/2012 : 16:06:12
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how are you going to tell if it 'likes' it or not.
they dont show any emotion.. :/
just seems a bit pointless in my opinion, there are better enrichments for them, put them in a tree in the garden (or the christmas tree like i do every year lol)
everyone to their own and that but I dont think its necessary even if the snake isn't showing any signs of distress, its not getting exercise from it or anything.. |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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Thorne Walker
Yearling
Canada
642 Posts |
Posted - 20/10/2012 : 21:26:02
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Hmm...
Put them in a tree in the garden... => possible infection with parasites and exposure to bacteria and fungus...
Pine or Spruce Christmas tree? (neither wood is very good for snakes so it really doesn't matter does it...)
And quite frankly.. I can read enough snake 'body language' to understand if either of my snakes is enjoying their situation. Your opinion that they don't show emotion is a little off the mark... |
1.0.0 CB'11 Volcano Corn 'Kitty'
0.0.1 CB'11 Russian Rat Snake 'Monster'
2.0.0 CB'04 Roof Rabbits 'Baka Neko-San' and 'Usagi Neko-San'
My Setup :http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27228
The Kids: http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26248 |
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serena_08
Yearling
United Kingdom
784 Posts |
Posted - 20/10/2012 : 22:07:58
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| This was always going to be a debate on what's right or wrong, bringing the 'natural' world into it! At the end of the day, being kept in a viv isn't natural, being bred for variations isn't natural, feeding thawed mice isn't natural. It's all about us, we keep them for our pleasure! And as long as no harm comes to it, do as you please! Everyone has an opinion on everything we do (or don't) in life. Just be aware of any potential risks etc. if you think Snakey will like it, that's your decision. If it doesn't like it, don't do it again! |
1.0.0 Corn: D-Bo (Amel)
1.0.0 Western Hognose: C*ntyB*ll*cks
0.1.0 MBK: Rosa
0.0.1 Leopard Gecko: Zuko
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon: Kobe
0.0.1 Fire Bellied Toad: Snoop
1.1.0 Cats: Penny and Sheldon
1.0.0 Staffy: MooMoo
I intend to live forever. So far, so good. |
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Emmerz
Hatchling
166 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2012 : 07:57:33
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| this is just getting ridiculous, I agree with both sides! You can can tell whether a snake enjoys something, as I wouldn't do anything to them that they dislike. I know 4/8 of my snakes will willing go for a bathe in the bath and when the get bored they simply 'slither' out of the bath and I put them back in there viv. Some people on this forum take it to the extreme. These snakes manage perfectly fine in the wild, i'm sure a little water won't harm them, and then of course guys you could have a go on people who put there snakes in the grass on a sunny day, I know for a fact admins and people that know a hell of a lot about snakes have no problem in doing this. You're just being pathetic! Mollycoddling them as if they're incapable, sometimes I think snakes are brainier than some people. Isoldael, was just having some harmless fun right? It's blatantly not her snake so there's no problem, you've said that you don't agree with it, your problem. GET OVER IT. |
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Isoldael
Yearling
Netherlands
999 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2012 : 18:13:17
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As for seeing when a snakes enjoys something - if a snake does something of their own will, repeatedly, I'll assume that they don't find it stressful or may even like it. That's pretty much how I determine it :)
Edit: As for the pic copyrights, didn't know there were any. Someone shared this pic on Facebook like this, so, my apologies ^^ |
1.0 anery stripe (Nash)
1.0 hypo pewter (Loki)
1.0 bloodred het amel, charcoal, hypo, stripe 50% phet anery, lavender (Kasumi)
0.1 grey background normal het amel (Saphira)
0.1 tessera het amel, anery, stripe (Lilith)
0.1 amel (Aurora)
0.1 hypo bloodred het anery, charcoal, stripe 50% phet amel, lavender (Mara)
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Edited by - Isoldael on 21/10/2012 18:13:50 |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2012 : 18:59:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Thorne Walker
Hmm...
Put them in a tree in the garden... => possible infection with parasites and exposure to bacteria and fungus...
Pine or Spruce Christmas tree? (neither wood is very good for snakes so it really doesn't matter does it...)
And quite frankly.. I can read enough snake 'body language' to understand if either of my snakes is enjoying their situation. Your opinion that they don't show emotion is a little off the mark...
We have a plastic xmas tree so pretty sure theres no risk there pal, so no need to be cocky.
As for them not having emotions, it is not my opinion, it is scientific fact. They are not dogs lol, they are reptiles.
and exposure to parasites, unless they are mites which i doubt would live in a tree in my garden, they would have to ingest them to be affected.
I am merely stating my opinion that unnecessary enrichment, that doesnt reflect natural behaviour is pointless, and MAY cause stress.
im not saying dont you dare do it, im saying I wouldnt because i care far too much about the mental welfare of my snakes, something that is almost impossible to read.
Do whatever the hell you want, but as someone already said, they are essentially our prisoners, and therefore we must take it upon ourselves to make sure they are looked after perfectly.
And on of the 'five freedoms' listed in the animal welfare act 06 for captive animals is "Freedom from fear and distress"
Dont bite my head off, I just feel strongly about animal welfare. |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2012 : 19:04:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Emmerz
Mollycoddling them as if they're incapable, sometimes I think snakes are brainier than some people. Isoldael, was just having some harmless fun right? It's blatantly not her snake so there's no problem, you've said that you don't agree with it, your problem. GET OVER IT.
This forum is for opinions, and I put mine forward incase people hadnt thought of it before.
it may seem like harmless fun, but to me its animal cruelty, and thats something i dont just ignore.
There is no need to be such a **** about it though is there? put your opinion across but dont tell me to get over it.
Should i just get over all the other cases of animal cruelty aswell?
I feel blessed to be able to keep such an unusual thing as a pet, so why would i risk its mental welfare just so i can go "oo look its floating about on a lilo like a person!" the snake is not getting anything out of this.
say your opinions, but dont tell me to GET OVER IT when I feel so strongly about it. |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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Isoldael
Yearling
Netherlands
999 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2012 : 19:08:32
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quote:
Originally posted by QueenVic
As for them not having emotions, it is not my opinion, it is scientific fact. They are not dogs lol, they are reptiles.
Actually, no such thing has ever been proven. In fact, more and more scientific evidence keeps popping up about species of animals feeling emotions. I wouldn't say that snakes have emotions or not as I have no facts to base it on, but I definitely wouldn't say they don't. Just because we can't see them smile or cry, doesn't mean they don't feel anything. |
1.0 anery stripe (Nash)
1.0 hypo pewter (Loki)
1.0 bloodred het amel, charcoal, hypo, stripe 50% phet anery, lavender (Kasumi)
0.1 grey background normal het amel (Saphira)
0.1 tessera het amel, anery, stripe (Lilith)
0.1 amel (Aurora)
0.1 hypo bloodred het anery, charcoal, stripe 50% phet amel, lavender (Mara)
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2012 : 19:16:17
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its hard to define, because they obviously have fear and stress, but these are reactions to a stimulus.
I do not believe they feel happiness or sadness or jelousy or loneliness or any thing like that, which are what id class as emotions.
but they show distress to situations, and stress and fear. I would not class these as emotions though..
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0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2012 : 19:17:44
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| and i agree that ALOT of animals do show emotion, most mammals do but i do not believe that reptiles do, same with amphibs and inverts. |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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Found this on the net...
Topic Locked
