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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
 Posted - 20/05/2011 : 16:31:53
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Brilliant, thank you very much :)
If Espher (my normal) is not het for anything, will the babies all be normals with some of them having a chance of being het for anery? |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 20/05/2011 : 17:32:08
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| if espher has no hets (unlikely though) then they would all be het anery |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 20/05/2011 : 20:12:58
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So its more likely that espher will have hets..
I hope I get some surprises when they hatch lol |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 20/05/2011 : 20:14:18
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| it is more than likely yes, but now way of knowing until your eggs incubate and hatch to see if shes he anery. Good luck |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 20/05/2011 : 20:56:55
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quote:
Originally posted by VicNCal
Right, I think I have the basics of it now :)
So if they are both showing the trait, the hatchlings will too.
If they are both het for it, not showing it, there will be a chance the babies will show the trait or be het for it
It's all to do with chance really. (Please tell me if thats wrong haha!)
I have a new question,
If I have for example an Anery A and a normal that is het for Anery, there is a strong chance that some of the babies will be normals het for Anery (If that's correct...) Will it be definate that they are het, or is it literally a guessing game?
I just can't understand how you can know what they are het for if it's all chance...
The first bit is right, assuming that both parents are showing the SAME trait, like anery.
there is no chance involved, you get possibilities.
I will try and show you this....
This may confuse a little, but is essential, because there are 3 types of genes, recessive, dominant and co-dominant, they are denoted using cased letters, because recessive genes are always recessive to a dominant, they are denoted with a small letter this this 'a'.
A dominant or co dominant is denoted by a capital 'A'
Another thing to remember, is that het is short for heterozygous, which means both genes are different.
If you have two traits, a + b, the father is a visual 'a' and the mother is a visual 'b', then because they have two sets of traits (again, wrong wording, but keeps it simple) the father must be 'aa' and the mother 'bb', both traits passed to them by their parents match, so they are visually that trait.
Now, remembering that babies take one trait gene from each of the parents, you can safely assume that each baby will take 'a' from the father and 'b' from the mother.
Assume for now that 'a' = anery and 'b' = amelanistic
(in reality you can have them meaning whatever trait you want, as long as its recessive, for this excercise)
Ok, so baby has taken one trait from each parent, so now it possesses both 'a' and 'b', so would be 'ab' (remember father was 'aa' and mother was 'bb'
Now, both those traits are recessives, so the babies would look like normals, but carry the genes for amelanistic and anery, and as the genes are different, its known as a het (heterzygous).
Now, to extend it a little further, if you then breed those two snakes ( the 'ab' and 'ab') together, you take one gene from each of the parents, you then have babies that are 'aa' 'bb' so you have visual amels and aneries, you will also get normals and snows, but thats a little complicated now, especially how i have described it.
Thats how hets and visuals work, very roughly. once you start combining more than one trait, it gets complicated, as above!
Once you get the understanding of how it works, its a lot easier to work out multiple hets in your head.
Now, to blow your mind a little more, the whole chance thing....
Ok, you have a normal snake, father which is 'NN' (normal is dominant) and you have a mother that is het for amel so she is 'Na'.
Now, you take from each parent one of their traits, the easiest way to see it is to draw a little box, 2 boxes by 2 boxes, above the top boxes write the fathers traits, so 'N' above one and 'N' above the other, now down the left hand side, write 'N' next to the top box, and 'a' next to the bottom box.
You should end up with something like this
. \ N \ N
N / ./
a \ .\
Imagine there are lines there, and its a box, not my wonky box attempt, its pretty bad, but hopefully you get the idea.
Now, you take one trait from each parent, you have the boxes blank, you put the letters in there.....
\N \ N
N / NN / NN
a \ Na \ Na
Again, its a wonky box, but you get the idea.
Now, you can see that out of 4 babies you have 2 that are 'NN', they are completely normal, no hets.
You also have 2 babies that are 'Na' they are het amel
Now, the interesting bit, all 4 babies are normal, even though 2 of them are hets.
Now, this is where percentages come to play, and where chance becomes possibility, you have 4 babies, 2 are normal, 2 are hets, now, this is known as 50% hets, because EACH baby (not each litter) has the possibility of carrying that het, 50% infact!
Ok, gonna go one step further, mind melt time.
If you do the same box as above, but instead you have a father that is het amel so he is 'Na' and the mother is the same 'Na'
Now, you mix these and you get 'aa' 'Na' 'Na' and 'NN'
This is where it gets funky, your 'aa' is a visual Amel, you can see that, however, the rest of the litter are normals, denoted by the 'N' in their genes, and capital 'N' is dominant, so it over rules the small letter.
Now, you have 3 out of 4 babies that are normal, now, 2 of those 3 are carrying the Amel gene, the 'a' in their genetic makeup, but you cant see it as its over ruled by the 'N' dominant gene.
So... If 2 of the 3 babies are het, and the third isnt, you have a 66% CHANCE per baby that it is carrying the het trait!!!
Once you get your head around the basics, its really easy, promise, just read the books on it, and you can work it out.
Think thats enough for now!!!!! 
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Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Invalid User
Account Deactivated
United Kingdom
0 Posts |
Posted - 20/05/2011 : 23:49:39
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I like the boxes explanation ^^^^^
That's how I first learnt (still leanring lol) and it really helped. |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 21/05/2011 : 13:05:33
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Yeah that box method is brilliant.
So, its much harder to get good morphs than I imagined lol |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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Ailsa
Banned
United Kingdom
804 Posts |
Posted - 21/05/2011 : 13:22:40
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| Genetics, hets, all so confusing when you don't understand snake breeding but hey ho I'll just keep reading and learning from all the posts. |
  
Dakota ~ Bloodred Corn ~ Amber & Chloe ~ Cats
Mind is changing on snakes I want now lol so am researching these to find out what would be best - Milk Snakes and Dwarf Boa possibly - Crawl Cay, Sonoran, Tarahumara or Vera Cruz and poss a Hoggie, African House and Rat snake. Also Trinket Snakes. |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 21/05/2011 : 15:25:37
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quote:
Originally posted by VicNCal
Yeah that box method is brilliant.
So, its much harder to get good morphs than I imagined lol
Depends on the morph! with morphs you can make you just need a pair of the single traits, or with hets, but with hets you have a much much less chance of getting visuals of the pair out.
Making the expensive multiple trait morphs is a long and very time consuming process. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Confused about morphs...
