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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
 Posted - 09/05/2011 : 20:34:18
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Okay, so i cant get my head around corn snake genetics.
Is it based solely on het traits being paired to form a morph, but if there are no hets or het matches the hatchlings will be like one of the parents and het for the other?
If some one could explain simply id appriciate it!
Its all very confusing.
Also i have a male anery, is there anything i can breed him with to get a particular morph?
Cheers, and dont laugh if im way off! |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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gingerpony
Queen Bee
United Kingdom
10455 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2011 : 20:44:17
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very basically......
if a visual or het gene of the female matches a visual or het gene of the father then whichever gene matches could be produced in the resulting clutch
eg. amel mum paired with a carolina het amel dad would produce amels in the clutch (as well as carolinas het amel) |
cornsnakes, ratsnakes, bullsnakes, boas and day geckos
Location:Leeds/York/Selby area |
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Lixra
Hatchling
United Kingdom
286 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2011 : 21:03:55
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I've found corn genetics more simple than some other reptiles species as almost everything is a simple recessive trait.
Let's say you have an amel corn and an anery type A corn (with no hets). If you bred the two together, since there's no common genes between the parents you would get all normal corns het for both amel and anery (they would be 100% het, since both parents are displaying the recessive genes). If you bred those double het babies together, you would have a chance to get aneries, amels, snows (displaying both traits) and normals (displaying neither trait, but having a 66% chance each of being het for amel and anery - each of those normals would have a 25% chance of being het for both, a 50% chance of being het for one or the other and a 25% chance of not carrying either).
As you can see, probabilities make the math a bit more complicated. 
In regards to your Anery B (Charcoal) corn, if he has no known hets, you could pair him with a Charcoal female and get Charcoal babies or pair him with a Blizzard, Pewter, or something else displaying the charcoal trait, then you'd get charcoal het amel (if paired with a blizzard) or het diffused (if paired with a pewter), but they wouldn't be displaying the traits they're het for.
Then when you add dominant, co-dominant and genes that interact with each other in het form (like Motley/Stripe or Ultra/Amel), that's when it starts to get really complicated!  |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2011 : 22:34:36
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:o silvers not type b, hes type a. Cant believe i put that in my sig lol.
My mistake, could you answer the same question regarding a type a?
And thankyou very much, its helped me out a lot! |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2011 : 23:06:01
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| same as what Lxra has said, breed with anery to get aneries or any other morph with the anery gene will give you anery with hets for the other genes. |
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a33272
our battery charger
United Kingdom
3063 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2011 : 23:59:50
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| im rubbish at morphs an lixra well shes just blinded me with science there, you all make it sound like its so easy to understand, theres some bizzare love triangles u lot are able to work out there |
    
0.1.0 creamsicle corn-Marmalade
1.0.0 jungle carpet python-Bumble
1.0.0 corn Casper
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Edited by - a33272 on 10/05/2011 00:01:44 |
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Mamma
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4494 Posts |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 15:16:32
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Haha, it is extremely confusing.
I think i'm beginning to get the general jist of it though.
It's strange, i've read through pages and pages on the internet and i've read through the genetics section in Kathy & Bill loves book a hundred times, but they never made sense.
Lixra writes 2 paragraphs and It makes more sense!
Any further explanations would be appriciated and any more ideas regarding Silver. Cheers! |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 15:18:19
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| Also, if I bred him with a stripe would that make any difference? |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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Lixra
Hatchling
United Kingdom
286 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 16:37:17
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If you bred him with a classic stripe you would get normals het for anery and stripe, pairing him with an anery stripe would give you aneries het stripe. These again would be 100% hets because one of the parents is displaying the recessive trait.
As far as breeding ideas there's loads of morphs containing the Anery A gene! If Silver has no know hets and the female you pair him with does, the babies have a 50% chance of being het for the trait the parent carries. For example: I have a Pewter male who is 50% possible het (ph) Hypo. One parent is a Pewter with no hets, the other is a Pewter het Hypo. All the babies from that clutch had a 50% to get the Hypo gene and 50% chance to not get it.
As far as the more popular morphs go...
Pairing to an Anery will of course give you Aneries
Double Recessives:
Ghost (Anery & Hypo) - babies will be Anery het for Hypo
Granite (Anery & Diffused) - babies will be Anery het for Diffused
Snow (Amel & Anery) - babies will be Anery het for Amel
Triple Recessives:
Platinum (Anery, Charcoal & Hypo) - babies will be Anery het for Charcoal & Hypo
Ghost Bloodred (Anery, Diffused & Hypo) - babies will be Anery het for Diffused & Hypo (Looking forward to hopefully producing some of these next year!)
There's loads more, but these are the more popular ones that you probably wouldn't have too hard a time finding if you wanted to pair one of those with your male. |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2011 : 23:22:56
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Ignoring the single trait that is possibly dominant, every other morph is a recessive or a mix of recessive traits.
Very simply, each snake has 2 sets of traits, one from the father one from the mother.
If those two traits match, you get a visual of that morph. If they dont, you get a normal, het (literally meaning the 2 traits dont match, but slightly more complicated)
So for example, you have an Amel Father and a Normal mother, you take one trait from each, so one Normal and one amel, amel is recessive to normal, therefore the baby that is produced is normal, but, is also het for amel.
Similarly, if you put an amel mother to an amel father, you take one trait from each, and as the two match in the baby, you get an amel baby.
This works for all traits, however, the normal never goes away, so for example, if you put a Amel to an anery, you are taking one trait from each, but, because each one of those is different, the baby looks normal, however, because its been given one trait from each parent, its het for amel AND anery.
My wording is not right, you dont take one trait, you cant, i termed it like that to try and make it easier to understand.
If you want your snake to produce visual babies, then you HAVE to pair it with another snake that carries the SAME genes, if its different then you will only get normals.
But, you can pair your snake with something different, and the babies will be 100% het for both the parents visual traits, and a percentage het for any of the parents het.
What is important though, is the the % of the hets is % CHANCE per egg, not % of the clutch.
Its worth knowing which traits do what, you can have colour traits, pattern traits, colour AND pattern, and even scaleless.
Dont expect to be able to understand it really easily, its hard work, i dont get most of it, its a strange concept!! |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Edited by - mikerichards on 16/05/2011 15:06:34 |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2011 : 23:49:54
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simple answer:
recessive to normal morphs: (99% of corn morphs) mum and dad both have to pass down the same copy of a mutant gene for a morph to be visible
dominant over normal morphs: (only one corn morph, Tessera) Only one parent has to pass down the mutant gene for a morph to be visible
codominant with normal genes: (no corn morphs are codom with normal) If one parent passes down a mutant gene it looks different to normal, if both parents pass down the same mutant gene it looks different to normal and different to if only one mutant gene is passed down. |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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Edited by - eeji on 14/05/2011 23:51:25 |
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kdlang
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3556 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2011 : 09:11:45
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quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
This works for all traits, however, the normal never goes away, so for example, if you put a Snow to an anery, you are taking one trait from each, but, because each one of those is different, the baby looks normal, however, because its been given one trait from each parent, its het for amel AND anery.
I thought Snow to Anery would produce Anery het Amel babies.
That is a really good explanation tho Mike. |
4.1.0 corns - Izzy (Carolina) Alice (Amel) Peanut (Butter Motley) Swayze (Ghost) Carmellia (Butter Motley)
0.1.0 cat - Kizzy
1.0.0 Dog - Dobbie
Location - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
www.support-dogs.org.uk |
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vetdebbie
Hatchling
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2011 : 10:15:48
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| snow to anery would indeed produce anery het amel babies |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 16/05/2011 : 15:06:04
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quote:
Originally posted by kdlang
quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
This works for all traits, however, the normal never goes away, so for example, if you put a Snow to an anery, you are taking one trait from each, but, because each one of those is different, the baby looks normal, however, because its been given one trait from each parent, its het for amel AND anery.
I thought Snow to Anery would produce Anery het Amel babies.
That is a really good explanation tho Mike.
Ha Ha!! sorry, i meant amel to anery, i was thinking too far ahead of myself!! You are right though, snow to anery would be anery het amels.
My mistake, sorry. gonna correct it now! |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2011 : 17:37:43
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It's boggling my mind, but I love it haha!
Keep the explanations coming guys, this is great!
and yeah, thanks Mike that was a really good explanation.
And Eeji, you're still a little too technical for me, but im going to do some reading up on it now lol.
Every explanation sheds a little more light on this for me :D |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 20/05/2011 : 15:19:17
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Right, I think I have the basics of it now :)
So if they are both showing the trait, the hatchlings will too.
If they are both het for it, not showing it, there will be a chance the babies will show the trait or be het for it
It's all to do with chance really. (Please tell me if thats wrong haha!)
I have a new question,
If I have for example an Anery A and a normal that is het for Anery, there is a strong chance that some of the babies will be normals het for Anery (If that's correct...) Will it be definate that they are het, or is it literally a guessing game?
I just can't understand how you can know what they are het for if it's all chance... |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 20/05/2011 : 15:22:26
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| anery A x het anery A you will get some Anery and some normal het anery |
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QueenVic
Yearling
United Kingdom
849 Posts |
Posted - 20/05/2011 : 15:34:55
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I see, so if any of my eggs hatch as Anery A's, the ones that are normal from the clutch will be definately het for Anery?
And if they are all normals that come out, will they all be normals het aneryA or..? |
0.1.0 Normal (Espher)
1.0.0 Snow (Midnight)
2 GALS
1 rat (Jasper)
1 very needy staffy (Coco)
Location: Ossett
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 20/05/2011 : 15:58:55
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| yes, the ones that are not aneries, will be normal het anery |
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Confused about morphs...
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