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CentricMalteser
Banned
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
 Posted - 22/02/2011 : 02:08:02
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When my mate got his baby corn - anerythristic motley, about 5 months old and 1ft 3ins, the guy told him a plastic viv is fine, and to stick the heat mat INSIDE at the bottom with substrate on it,
no advice on a heat mat or anything
anyway after few days, i touched the bottom, and the plastic had deformed from the heat and the heat mat was over heating to the point of hotter than boiling water
i think they should make it compulsory
and they should also make people buy ALL the equipment before giving them the animal, OR make the persons bring in evidence, such as pcitures or the viv itself to show the setup
i think by doing this they could cut down at least 25% of animal cruelty and neglect |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 02:15:10
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is unfortunate that, also your friend may also have been wise to do his own research other than the petshops.
With regards to producing evidence in the form of photos, I can produce brilliant photos of setups I don't have. |
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GillyDuncan
50% warning
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 02:20:27
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Is there a chance your 'mate' was just useless at research and getting info and lied to you?
I know of a total of zero shops that would put a mat INSIDE a faun, they usually say "put it under, it doesn't need a stat as you just slide it out a bit until you get the desired temperature"
quote:
Originally posted by gmac
...............I can produce brilliant photos of setups I don't have.
I remember seeing a photo of your hot room on the chat one night, it was brilliant. |
Surely the serpent will bite without enchantment; and a babbler is no better. |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 02:21:10
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^^^^^ what he said, and what she said! shops wont not sell you something, thats not how retail works. if you want something, whether you need it or not, they will sell it to you.
If you want to stop neglect, then you need to target the people who dont bother to research an animal before they buy it, or even the people who simply dont care, and buy a trophy animal.
Picking on petshops because they will only sell what people want to buy is a bit naive.
I assume you have a fairly thorugh break down of your research into animal cruelty to base your claim of reducing neglect by 25%???? |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Edited by - mikerichards on 22/02/2011 02:22:03 |
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Kehhlyr
ǝʞɐɔ sǝʌoן
United Kingdom
8173 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 02:24:55
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Also neglect is totally different to lack of information/research.
If I was to leave my snakes without food/water etc that would be neglect. |
-=Kehhlyr - The Resident Loon
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ilovemypets1988
Hatchling
United Kingdom
328 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 04:34:25
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i agree mike and k, neglect is something that is intentionally done, whether you know if its right or wrong, when its because of a lack of research (to quote a friend) its stupidity and being naive in itself.
snakes aint like most other domestice animal (such as cats and dogs, they cant express there "feelings" when something is wrong and the keeper will only know from studying the normal behaviour of the animal and knowing whats not normal, and as for the shop (or any shop) saying to put something that gets extremely hot inside a plastic box is unbelievable to say the least, everyone knows what happens to plastic when it gets hot. |
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LynneM_212
Hatchling
United Kingdom
236 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 08:21:28
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I agree, before i bought my snake, i did soooo much research there was no need to ask questions as i knew already....
When i had questions, it was when i had bought her and was unsure... and i came on here and the reason i came on ehre is because they are all snake lovers and mostly always say the same !!!
Its common sense really to know not to put a heat mat inside a plastic faun... its obvious what will happen...
Theres no way you can prove you have a setup, like what was said earlier there are soooo many pictures even just on this forum with complete setups the shop or breeder wuld just never know !!
I think it is mainly down to the owner to do their research on the pet... like health, food, set up, illnesses... heating, lighting... EVERYTHING!!1 hearing it all once from a shop isnt enough you need to read and read and read like i did... :) |
1 corn snake: Kchalice-Serendipity
2 dogs: Kane and chester
1 C0ckatill: Rolo
1 gold fish: chips
2 Cats : Max and Jess
Location : Folkestone, Kent |
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CentricMalteser
Banned
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 13:30:37
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I was with him when he went to get it, and the guy who honestly didnt seem that clued up, did say put the heatmat inside the faun
and use the circular holes with cross hairs to feed the cable out (after taking the plug off n then putting it back on)
luckily, i did my research, and so did he, and he did a perfect set up
but i think if some how something was implemented to make sure ppeople had the correct setup, it would reduce animal cruelty |
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Invalid User
Account Deactivated
United Kingdom
0 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 14:28:02
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Pet shops are there to sell and most just want to make a profit but there are exceptions.
I was not told by my petshop that I needed a thermostat for my snake setup but I had done my own research for many months before buying my fist snake so I knew what to get.
Petshop staff aren't going to go round to peoples houses and to see the setups and interview the potential owners so before they sell them a snake!
Sadly too many people buy pets of any sort without doing there research but luckily there are forums like this one where people can get the correct advice and sort any problems early.
Petshop are at fault but so are people who rush into things without doing any research. |
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sparkaly
Hatchling
212 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 14:37:53
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I bought my little fella from a reptile shop and even tho I'd asked about a heat mat and stat he told me all I needed was a lamp. I'd read up on it and read loads of posts on hear but he chap still said I didn't need one. So with my new little snakey and the set up he advised we came home. I still wasn't happy tho so that night I went on line and ordered Charlie his heatmat, mat stat and digital thermostat along with a dimming thermostat. What I did find is that the cold side of my viv went to cold (down to 16) so the light and dimming thermostat just keeps it at the right temps.
I'm so glad I did research before hand, had I not Charlie would be a very unhappy snake |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 17:10:17
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quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser
I was with him when he went to get it, and the guy who honestly didnt seem that clued up, did say put the heatmat inside the faun
and use the circular holes with cross hairs to feed the cable out (after taking the plug off n then putting it back on)
luckily, i did my research, and so did he, and he did a perfect set up
but i think if some how something was implemented to make sure ppeople had the correct setup, it would reduce animal cruelty
Clearly not, you contradict your first post.
If it was a perfect setup then there would be no warping, or even a heatmat IN the faun.
If something somehow could be done to stop morons owning animals then it would be a better world, sadly, that's why the rspca exist. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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LynneM_212
Hatchling
United Kingdom
236 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 17:39:58
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quote:
Clearly not, you contradict your first post.
If it was a perfect setup then there would be no warping, or even a heatmat IN the faun.
Haha sorry this made me laugh... ive just re read the first post and you are right ... so now im confused as to whether it was a perfect set up and nothing went wrong ... or it wasnt and the plastic melted ?? |
1 corn snake: Kchalice-Serendipity
2 dogs: Kane and chester
1 C0ckatill: Rolo
1 gold fish: chips
2 Cats : Max and Jess
Location : Folkestone, Kent |
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CentricMalteser
Banned
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 18:01:23
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i meant we left few dayds for everything to be heated and set up
and thats when we discoevered the warping
and then we got it to a perfect set up |
Edited by - CentricMalteser on 22/02/2011 18:02:11 |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 18:14:28
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Ok fair enough, so his corn is in a perfect setup, small faun with all the bits he needs for a young snake.
Why then did you put yours in a big viv knowing that it wasn't a perfect setup?
Isn't this about what the thread is about, people being neglectful of the snakes needs??
Wouldn't you class putting a snake in a viv too big for it, causing stress, neglectful? I would. If it as any other animal you would get prosecuted |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Edited by - mikerichards on 22/02/2011 18:14:53 |
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 18:16:26
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| Keep it on one thread please Mike. |
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stotty01
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1168 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 19:59:23
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| i dont seee why some rep shops dont use thermostats....as sureley they will get money from it wont they? safe to say when i bought medusa the first thing i was given was the thermostat :) |
my aunties, bestfriends, hairdressers, friends boyfriend had a snake and it stretched out to measure him to eat him......true story.....
1.0.0 tortoise
1.0.0 sinaloan milk snake
1.0.0 jack russel
0.1.0 anery corn medusa
1.0.0 snow corn abomninable
0.1.0 royal python priscilla
http://www.youtube.com/user/stotty01 dads youtube channel
Tail n scales, Linton, Cambs, CB21 4XN, Tel no 01223 893 508 http://www.tails-n-scales.co.uk/
wish list: boa! |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 20:04:45
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quote:
Originally posted by matty18714
Keep it on one thread please Mike.
Sorry Matt, my reply was specific to this thread though. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 20:54:57
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It is a sad state of affairs that reptile shops don't tell the whole story, leaving out some pretty major equipment such as stats and guards, etc. Its also very common for them to sell you a 2 foot vivarium when its too big for hatchies and other than the already discussed stress related issues, they are not built for hatchlings who can stroll easily out of the gaps. I did lots of research and thought I had it all figured out and when I went to purchase the setup was completely talked around and into buying their higher profit starter setup.
I'm guilty of this as a beginner so I can happily say this without any sugar coating. Its down to the owner/purchaser to do the research as to what is needed, if people stop buying their 'starter' sets they would have to change the way they sell them. Though people who know this already have snakes and (holds hand up gingerly) only find out after the fact. I was actually duped twice, 2 setups, both wrong, benefit of the doubt given and now its my way or bugger off I'll give my money to someone else. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
Edited by - lotabob on 22/02/2011 20:55:36 |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 22:30:42
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crap pet shops in a nutshell:
big viv = big profit margin
thermostat = another £20+ on the price, might put a customer off the big viv
There is hope however, one big rep shop in Manchester had a really bad reputation but has managed a complete turn around now and has (lots of) people recommending it again. |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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Newbie 105
Hatchling
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2011 : 02:16:31
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| I have a glass viv and my mat is is inside under a thick layer of aspen but mines controlled by a thermo stat ? |
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CentricMalteser
Banned
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2011 : 03:22:26
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you have to be careful with heat mats directly onto glass, as glass can heat up very quickly and easily,
do you have a thermometre on cold and warm side? and if so what are the temp readings
if its controlled by a thermostat, I dont think the glass getting hot would be too much of a problem, but would suggest, putting thin newspaper over the heat mat so their isnt any direct contact between your snake and the heat mat, and a thin layer of aspen on top
you then cud have the following two set ups
a) thermostat prob and thermometre probe together on top of the aspen where heat mat is and the hide on top of it, your snake wont care about the probes
OR
b) have the thermostat prob directly on the heatmat and the thermometre prob on top of the aspen
OR c) which is the BEST option for GLASS vivs, you should have your heat mat on a counter or table, and then your glass viv on over it, most glass vivs have feet so their should be a gap between the outside of the bottom of the glass viv and the heat mat,
connect heat mat to themrostat as per norm, and place both thermometre prob and heat mat prob together inside the viv on top of the thin layer of aspen where the mat is n then the hide on top and you shouldnt have any issues,
there is debate as to whether it should go inside, or outside, or on the wall, but there has been glass vivs cracking due to overheating (though yours wont as you got a themrostat), but reliable sources quote what i did in C.
In my wooden Viv, I have it set up as option A, and dont have any issues but as i said mines wooden
hope that helps
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie 105
I have a glass viv and my mat is is inside under a thick layer of aspen but mines controlled by a thermo stat ?
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how pet shops can stop neglect!!
