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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
 Posted - 05/02/2011 : 01:16:22
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I dont like the term viv defensive, its just regular defensive & food offensive.
They don't defend their viv they defend themselves when they feel threatened. Thats the quick strike-bite-withdraw type of bite, to get you away from them.
The latch on (possibly even constrict) bite is a feeding response, you've just been mistaken for food. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 01:22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by lotabob
I dont like the term viv defensive, its just regular defensive & food offensive.
They don't defend their viv they defend themselves when they feel threatened. Thats the quick strike-bite-withdraw type of bite, to get you away from them.
The latch on (possibly even constrict) bite is a feeding response, you've just been mistaken for food.
not true, a corn may well latch on if striking out, is down to chance if it just bites and lets go or bites and holds on. Neither of those bites are attributed to viv defensive or food strike. |
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Kehhlyr
ǝʞɐɔ sǝʌoן
United Kingdom
8173 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 01:27:46
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quote:
Originally posted by lotabob
I dont like the term viv defensive, its just regular defensive & food offensive.
They don't defend their viv they defend themselves when they feel threatened. Thats the quick strike-bite-withdraw type of bite, to get you away from them.
The latch on (possibly even constrict) bite is a feeding response, you've just been mistaken for food.
I completely totally and utterly disagree with this.
One of my snakes is lovely and soft, a really placid snake.
Unless you go into her viv, she WILL go for you, there is no 2 ways about it and it's not a feeding response either, I've never fed her in the viv. She doesn't just quick bite and withdraw, she will latch on and not let go.
If I go to get her out of the viv she will go for me, once she's out she's fine.
When I go to put her back in she's fine until her head is inside the viv then she goes viv defensive again, weird that a snake can be 2/3rds on my arm but get it's head in the viv then turn round and go for me because I've invaded her territory. |
-=Kehhlyr - The Resident Loon
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Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 11:30:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Kehhlyr
quote:
Originally posted by lotabob
I dont like the term viv defensive, its just regular defensive & food offensive.
They don't defend their viv they defend themselves when they feel threatened. Thats the quick strike-bite-withdraw type of bite, to get you away from them.
The latch on (possibly even constrict) bite is a feeding response, you've just been mistaken for food.
I completely totally and utterly disagree with this.
One of my snakes is lovely and soft, a really placid snake.
Unless you go into her viv, she WILL go for you, there is no 2 ways about it and it's not a feeding response either, I've never fed her in the viv. She doesn't just quick bite and withdraw, she will latch on and not let go.
If I go to get her out of the viv she will go for me, once she's out she's fine.
When I go to put her back in she's fine until her head is inside the viv then she goes viv defensive again, weird that a snake can be 2/3rds on my arm but get it's head in the viv then turn round and go for me because I've invaded her territory.
freaky snake K! 
@sexybear
nah, i didnt misunderstand per-say. i think perhaps you are right, but in a way so am I. it basically depends i think on where you draw the difference between the snake actively defending its vivarium because it is its territory and it feels insecure (what serendipity does) and the snake confusing a warm fast moving object (say, a hand) for prey because its in the place where prey normally is.
so yeah, i concede the point that viv feeding is not =/= to viv defensiveness but viv feeding can have the exact same effect in that it increases the odds of a snake mistaking you for prey. probably worse actually as a defensive snake, particularly a python, will at least give a lot of warning (normally) before resorting to a bite whereas a hunting snake will attack as quickly and stealthily as possible.
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1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
1.0.0 Royal "ophion"
0.1.0 Coastal Carpet Python "Serendipity"
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Obsidian"
0.1.0 Bunny Rabbit (?) "truffle"
R.I.P "Prisma Pequeno" |
Edited by - Benji54 on 05/02/2011 11:31:31 |
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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 13:40:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Benji54
@sexybear
nah, i didnt misunderstand per-say. i think perhaps you are right, but in a way so am I. it basically depends i think on where you draw the difference between the snake actively defending its vivarium because it is its territory and it feels insecure (what serendipity does) and the snake confusing a warm fast moving object (say, a hand) for prey because its in the place where prey normally is.
so yeah, i concede the point that viv feeding is not =/= to viv defensiveness but viv feeding can have the exact same effect in that it increases the odds of a snake mistaking you for prey. probably worse actually as a defensive snake, particularly a python, will at least give a lot of warning (normally) before resorting to a bite whereas a hunting snake will attack as quickly and stealthily as possible.
I can see what you are saying, but I totally disagree with the bit in bold, especially when it comes to snakes as placid as corns. I have yet to see any evidence that feeding in the viv increases the likelihood of being bitten, or mistaken for food. |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
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Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 13:49:38
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quote:
Originally posted by SexyBear77
quote:
Originally posted by Benji54
@sexybear
nah, i didnt misunderstand per-say. i think perhaps you are right, but in a way so am I. it basically depends i think on where you draw the difference between the snake actively defending its vivarium because it is its territory and it feels insecure (what serendipity does) and the snake confusing a warm fast moving object (say, a hand) for prey because its in the place where prey normally is.
so yeah, i concede the point that viv feeding is not =/= to viv defensiveness but viv feeding can have the exact same effect in that it increases the odds of a snake mistaking you for prey. probably worse actually as a defensive snake, particularly a python, will at least give a lot of warning (normally) before resorting to a bite whereas a hunting snake will attack as quickly and stealthily as possible.
I can see what you are saying, but I totally disagree with the bit in bold, especially when it comes to snakes as placid as corns. I have yet to see any evidence that feeding in the viv increases the likelihood of being bitten, or mistaken for food.
again i am obliged to agree with the corns bit. however my royal's feeding response is very strong and i took a pretty good hit from him a while back. my fault entirely, i was fiddling with something and thought he was at the other end...he wasnt. hes the most docile snake ive ever owned (or seen for that matter) but in that instance, i got a warningless strike across my knuckles. Also its fine to say "as placcid as corns" but snakes have different attitudes. I mean, read kehhlyr's post! i wouldnt say that sounded overly placcid!  |
1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
1.0.0 Royal "ophion"
0.1.0 Coastal Carpet Python "Serendipity"
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Obsidian"
0.1.0 Bunny Rabbit (?) "truffle"
R.I.P "Prisma Pequeno" |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 15:26:40
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| Feeding out of the viv/faun/rub iss good practice but for reasons of avoiding ingestion of substrate rather than making it less likely to get bitten. Each snake is different and (as footballers would say) 'at the end of the day'... they are wild animals and if they take a notion to bite, your likely to get bitten. Doing something the snake is comfortable with and that gives you more confidence when handling is NEVER a bad thing though what ever your opinion. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
Edited by - lotabob on 05/02/2011 15:28:11 |
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Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 15:38:13
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well put lotabob. i think youve hit the nail on the head there and so, with that, i shall, taking ALL points on board of course, bow out of this mini debate :)
thanks sexybear for a good ole convo tho! :) |
1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
1.0.0 Royal "ophion"
0.1.0 Coastal Carpet Python "Serendipity"
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Obsidian"
0.1.0 Bunny Rabbit (?) "truffle"
R.I.P "Prisma Pequeno" |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 16:44:57
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| What kind of feeding responses are you guys on about? As in every time you stick your hand in the viv you get bitten or the fact you happen to be warm and your hand smells like mouse and sticking hand in viv? |
   
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 16:56:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
What kind of feeding responses are you guys on about? As in every time you stick your hand in the viv you get bitten or the fact you happen to be warm and your hand smells like mouse and sticking hand in viv?
well its a long story for me but here goes. i was messing about with the stat wire which had come loose. i was wearing sweatbands as i had just got in off my motorbike. the wire ran across where i usually USED to feed ophion and i was giggling and shaking it, the wire, (very gently) to get it through the hole. i assume the snake, from his dark hiding place, saw a giggling fuzzy shape, which registered as very warm, in his usual feeding spot and thought "oooh! ill have that!" and hit my hand. i had made the text book error of assuming his head was elsewhere, needless to say, it wasnt. that is (and hopefully will remain) the only time i have EVER been bitten by a snake!*
(*prisma struck at me in his last days but didnt open his mouth, in fairness he had no idea what he was doing bless him) |
1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
1.0.0 Royal "ophion"
0.1.0 Coastal Carpet Python "Serendipity"
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Obsidian"
0.1.0 Bunny Rabbit (?) "truffle"
R.I.P "Prisma Pequeno" |
Edited by - Benji54 on 05/02/2011 16:57:15 |
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Feeding in a different place
