| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
 Posted - 29/01/2011 : 12:01:54
|
i had a really awful day yesterday. after little Prisma Pequeno's "strange" behaviour morphed into something altogether more shocking, i rushed him to the vets to discover he has inclusion body disease. most of you probably know what that is and what it involves.
Im really upset and trying to mix caring for Prisma with the safety of my other snakes. I am going to have to have them all screened for the disease. I dont know what ill do if any of the rest come back positive. Some might laugh if they saw how distraught i am about my baby boa but i know noone on here will. Poor Prisma (whose name means "little prism") is only about 5-6 months old and is too weak to get around his viv and far to weak to eat. i wont go into detail so as not to distress any of you but those of you who have dealt with it or heard of it will no what im going through and how on monday im going to have to make the hardest decision i will ever have to make.
I am trying to be practical about it so i have checked my other snakes (including holding Serendipity for the first time) for initial symptoms and at the moment all seems okay...i hope. I have moved prismas viv into another room and, as always, am washing my hands with alcohol gel between touching each snake. If anyone HAS had to deal with IBD in their collection before and has any advise on extra measures and could tell me how its actually spread (apart from mites and housing snakes together) i would really apreciate it (eg is it airbourne or is it body fluid based etc etc.)
I will show Prisma all the love I can until its time.
ps, sorry to be a downer, just wanted someone to talk to who undestands... |
1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
1.0.0 Royal "ophion"
0.1.0 Coastal Carpet Python "Serendipity"
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Obsidian"
0.1.0 Bunny Rabbit (?) "truffle"
R.I.P "Prisma Pequeno" |
|
|
Invalid User
Account Deactivated
United Kingdom
0 Posts |
|
|
Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 12:16:25
|
| thanks louise, that link is very detailed. i will print it off and read it thoroughly when i get home from work. Given me a bit of cause for concern about Serendipity though. |
1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
1.0.0 Royal "ophion"
0.1.0 Coastal Carpet Python "Serendipity"
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Obsidian"
0.1.0 Bunny Rabbit (?) "truffle"
R.I.P "Prisma Pequeno" |
 |
|
|
lrv2307
Yearling
United Kingdom
863 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 12:39:34
|
so sorry to hear about that mate
big hugs xxxx |
lrv (louise)
Uxbridge, Middlesex
0.1.0 snow - morgana
0.1.0 cali banded king - boudica
0.0.1 crested gecko - galaxy
** wish list**
ghost corn
anery corn
|
|
|
|
Figs
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3319 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 12:51:44
|
Oh no!
So sorry to hear Benji 
Fingers crossed for your other snakes, i really hope they'll be ok for you |
|
|
|
Kehhlyr
ǝʞɐɔ sǝʌoן
United Kingdom
8173 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 13:44:04
|
All the best as well mate, hopefully it wont have spread elsewhere. It particularly seems to affect royals very quick from what I know.
Keep us informed about how everything goes.
Out of curiosity how did they test for IBD? |
-=Kehhlyr - The Resident Loon
  |
|
|
|
Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 13:57:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kehhlyr
All the best as well mate, hopefully it wont have spread elsewhere. It particularly seems to affect royals very quick from what I know.
Keep us informed about how everything goes.
Out of curiosity how did they test for IBD?
i couldnt bear it if it got to ophion. he was my first snake and my first proper pet!
They couldnt actually test for IBD specifically without a biopsy, which i am not willing to put him through. They are certain it is some kind of severe neurological condition and it fits the bill for IBD so we are treating it as such. Its horrible to think about but i will have a post mortem done to assertain with certainty what has caused it. I suppose in a way i am lucky i have no more boa's at least in pythons, the manifestation is quick and obvious. Thanks all for your well wishes. |
1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
1.0.0 Royal "ophion"
0.1.0 Coastal Carpet Python "Serendipity"
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Obsidian"
0.1.0 Bunny Rabbit (?) "truffle"
R.I.P "Prisma Pequeno" |
|
|
|
PunkAsF82
Yearling
United Kingdom
909 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 15:50:14
|
Sorry to hear this Benji It's horrible knowing your animal is suffering but we're all here to support you through this hard time
x |
~~ My Zoo ~~
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon - Cooper
0.1.0 Amel corn - Lucky
0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko - Layla
1.1.0 Cats - Zelda the Maine Coon & Link the Ragdoll X Tabby
0.0.50 Malawi Cichlids
0.0.20 Community fish tank
|
|
|
|
herriotfan
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5853 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 15:53:07
|
| No words I can say really help but my thoughts are with you. Sending love and hugs xx |
Husband....Very Understanding!!! (Phil)
Son & Daughter (Kevin & Carol)
Granddaughter (Eva)
3.4.0 Cornsnakes Amel (Sidney) Caramel Stripe (Sultan) Amber (Cleo) Carolina (Phoebe) Anery Motley Stripe (Penny) Snow (Lily) Caramel (Holmes)
1.2.0 Royal Pythons(Peeps, Pandora & Pepsi)
1.0.0 Hognose (Hudson)
2.1.0 Dogs (Dillon, Alfie, Ellie)
0.1.0 Senegal Parrot (Peanut)
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons (Bonnie & Clyde)
1.0.0 Crested Geckos (Echo)
0.2.1 Hermanns Tortoises (Ebbie, Rosie & Twiglet)
0.1.0 Guinea Pig (Dolly-Pipsqueak)
0.1.9 Tarantulas (Poppy, Gypsy, Bumble, Insey Winsey, Sonic, Cookie, Raven, Fudge, Titch & Sox)
??? Foster animals
Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex
|
|
|
|
Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 16:03:38
|
| thanks very much guys and girls. great to have people who understand and sympathise to talk to. I have spoken to the vet today, after doing some research, and decided that Prisma will go to sleep on Monday. i just cant bear seeing him like he is (i have to carry him to his water bowl, carry him back to bask, then move him somewhere else to hide etc.) its really no life for him. I will show him as much love as i can over the weekend and of course, be there to hold his tail on monday. Thanks everyone. |
1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
1.0.0 Royal "ophion"
0.1.0 Coastal Carpet Python "Serendipity"
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Obsidian"
0.1.0 Bunny Rabbit (?) "truffle"
R.I.P "Prisma Pequeno" |
|
|
|
MeandMilo
Egg
United Kingdom
87 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 16:39:28
|
| im so sorry about primsa |
 |
|
|
|
Invalid User
Account Deactivated
United Kingdom
0 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 16:40:32
|
Oh so sorry to hear that Prisma will be pts.
Sending you hugs. xxx |
|
|
|
lee2308
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
3348 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 17:55:03
|
sorry to hear your bad news,someone correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure IBD cant be diagnosed until the snake has died and a post mortem has been done,it is not possible to screen live snakes for it as the pancreas or liver that has to be cut apart to get a definite diagnoses,so if your paying a vet to screen for it your wasting your money.There are loads of other condition that show similar symptoms.
|
 |
Edited by - lee2308 on 29/01/2011 17:55:41 |
|
|
|
Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 17:57:07
|
| screening can be done in two ways. one is a blood test which can confirm or deny the presence of a neurovirus/neurotoxin but not specifically for IBD. the second way is a liver biopsy which can be done whilst the snake is still perfectly alive and will yeild 100% results. that said, because of the rapid gestation period for this disease in pythons it WOULD be somewhat futile to test them as by the time the results were back, the snakes would already have died. thanks for your concern tho mate! :) |
1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
1.0.0 Royal "ophion"
0.1.0 Coastal Carpet Python "Serendipity"
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Obsidian"
0.1.0 Bunny Rabbit (?) "truffle"
R.I.P "Prisma Pequeno" |
|
|
|
lrv2307
Yearling
United Kingdom
863 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 18:13:11
|
oh benji........am so sad your going to have to let prisma go, but your doing the right thing i think
hope you have lots of pics to remind you at how lovely he/she was and will always be in your heart
big hugs xxxxxx |
lrv (louise)
Uxbridge, Middlesex
0.1.0 snow - morgana
0.1.0 cali banded king - boudica
0.0.1 crested gecko - galaxy
** wish list**
ghost corn
anery corn
|
|
|
|
lee2308
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
3348 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 18:23:14
|
just been having a google to see if i had it right and found this on http://www.boa-constrictors.com/com/Haltung/IBDEng.htm ,but your right in what you say about them dieing fast,pythons may only last a couple of months as where a boa could live for ever with out showing symptoms.
4. How is the inclusion body disease (IBD) diagnosed or excluded?
The only remotely reliable method is an examination of the pancreas for inclusion bodies. However, this can be practiced on the dead animal only. It is known that in most cases, in which the inclusion body disease (IBD) is confirmed, inclusion bodies can be found in the pancreas. A biopsy of the liver can probably also confirm the inclusion body disease (IBD) or rule it out. The latter method has the advantage that it may be performed on the live animal.
There are several ways to determine the inclusion body disease (IBD) on live animals. Since inclusion bodies frequently occur in the liver, kidney, and epithelium of the esophagus and stomach, a biopsy of one or more organs may be helpful. Blood examinations are also a possibility.
However, none of these methods provide a 100% certainty. A positive result is definite (provided a correct valuation by the examiner! - more on this topic a few lines below) , whereas a negative result does not prove that the animal is not infected with the inclusion body disease (IBD). This means that despite all tests turning out negative, the reptile may still be infected with the inclusion body disease (IBD).
|
|
Edited by - lee2308 on 29/01/2011 18:30:31 |
|
|
|
lee2308
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
3348 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2011 : 18:32:56
|
| oh,forgot to ask,did you have a liver biopsy done on prism? |
|
|
|
|
Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 12:05:38
|
| prisma died last night so i he will have a PM done on monday. |
1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
1.0.0 Royal "ophion"
0.1.0 Coastal Carpet Python "Serendipity"
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Obsidian"
0.1.0 Bunny Rabbit (?) "truffle"
R.I.P "Prisma Pequeno" |
|
|
|
scubadude
Hatchling
United Kingdom
366 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 13:03:47
|
Benji,
I am so,so sorry to read about Prisma and the outcome, nothing I can say is going to make you feel any better. Keep us informed of the test outcome for the others, I'm sure we'll all be keeping our fingers tightly crossed for you and your snakes. |
1.0.0 Classic corn snake - Dodge,2.2.0 Normal Royal - Palin,Detritus, Lyssa & Sofia,1.0.0 Spider royal - Anan,1.0.0 Mojave Royal - Ocha,1.0 Butter Royal - Huritt,0.1 Pastel ph ghost - Weeko,0.1 Yellowbelly - Loni,1.1.0 crawl cay boas -Maya & Pech,1.0.0 Hypo hog island boa - Harley,0.1.0 Hog island Boa - Babe
   
   
opinions are like ars*holes, everyone's got one, but you don't need to share them with the world. |
|
|
|
lee2308
The Corn Snake Moderator
United Kingdom
3348 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2011 : 19:13:14
|
| sorry to hear that benji,but your doing the right thing having a PM done as you definatly need to know,if it is IBD i was told that its not worth risking using any of the setup again for new arrivals as it's not clear how easy it is to kill the desease and just safer to start from scratch. |
|
|
|
|
Benji54
Hatchling
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2011 : 11:37:14
|
| exactly. all the inner materials will be destroyed. the viv itself i WILL keep but it will be wallpaper stripped, relaminated, disinfected and left for a while before anything is housed inside. Even then it will only house colubrids and no more boids. sad thing is, i now can no longer justify the risk of introducing a boa to my collection...ever. |
1.1.0 corns "wotsit" and "biscuit"
1.0.0 Royal "ophion"
0.1.0 Coastal Carpet Python "Serendipity"
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Obsidian"
0.1.0 Bunny Rabbit (?) "truffle"
R.I.P "Prisma Pequeno" |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
worst news i could have had...IBD
