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infatuateddrummer
Egg
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
 Posted - 18/01/2011 : 21:28:51
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| Hey what does everyone use to secure the heat matt to bottom of viv?? Just went to feed Zeus and found him curled up under the matt it was pretty cold in the house he came out once smelt the fuzzy so not to worried and cause it not stuck down he can easily move!! Can they sense when they too warm and too move? |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2011 : 21:31:04
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I use a sheet of linoleum over the full base of my mat.
And yes when he needs to move he will. |
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a33272
our battery charger
United Kingdom
3063 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2011 : 21:32:51
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| they thermoregulate so will move in and out of each end, my mat is pinned down with drawing pins |
    
0.1.0 creamsicle corn-Marmalade
1.0.0 jungle carpet python-Bumble
1.0.0 corn Casper
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lucyloop
Hatchling
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2011 : 21:35:30
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| mine is pinned down with a rock and a hide |
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2011 : 21:35:38
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Drawing pins!?! What a clever idea.
I spent ages debating what to secure mine with. In the end I siliconed a tile of vinyl over. When I get my viv stack I was considering just using the weight of the hide, but drawing pins sound a good idea!
Gaz |
0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2011 : 21:37:33
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GMAC - You say that when they want to move they will, how do snakes get burnt then? Not being ****y at all, I've always wondered this. I know they move if too hot so how do they get burnt when people don't stat?
Gaz |
0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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infatuateddrummer
Egg
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2011 : 21:57:46
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| I'd say they get burnt when there matt is not on a thermostat !! |
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2011 : 22:07:24
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I am well aware of this clever lad.
It is common knowledge that they thermoregulate. So my question is - why do they not move if it is too hot?
Use of a stat has no bearing on my question.
Gaz |
0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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a33272
our battery charger
United Kingdom
3063 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2011 : 22:17:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Gaz_1989
I am well aware of this clever lad.
bit uncalled for that comment
but
just because they thermoregulate doesnt mean they feel heat in they way we do, they absorb heat in from there belly they heat could take several hours to fully penatrate they body, if this is done on a mat that is to hot over time it will damage there scales |
0.1.0 creamsicle corn-Marmalade
1.0.0 jungle carpet python-Bumble
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2011 : 22:20:43
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| The snake gets cold, moves to the heat but the unstatted mat is running so hot it burns the surface of the snake before it has totally warmed up, once it warms up it moves off the mat. They feel heat by how hot their core temperature is. You put you hand into a fire it would take a while for your whole hand to heat up but you'd be severaly burnt. Similar process. |
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2011 : 23:33:51
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I don't think the comment was uncalled for. Infatuated drummer was clearly being sarcastic in his very unhelpful reply.
Thanks for explaining more clearly. I wasn't doubting that stats are absolutely nessescary, just wondering why snakes allow themselves to burn.
Thanks
Gaz |
0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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infatuateddrummer
Egg
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 18:30:20
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| I wasn't actually mate sorry of seemed that way least we both have answer tho!! All good in the end! |
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mikeyd_26
Yearling
United Kingdom
716 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 19:10:50
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| i think they thermoregulate due to natural instinct, there body telling them there warm or cold, there nerves also work differntly to ours so they dont feel pain/heat the same way therefore get burned. i think this is close to been right otherwise im talking c**p lol! |
   
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 19:42:30
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its true they dont feel heat the same way as us, however, the mechanics are slightly different.
a book i read many many years ago went into detail on why it happens, and from what i remember, and very simply, the snake feels the burn as something else, and tend to try and clamp down on it.
Not only that, but when heatmats go wrong, they can go epically wrong, massive temps can happen and the burning can be instant, and in the time it takes them to feel it properly, and get away, they have already sustained huge burns.
The whole clamping down thing tends to lean more towards pythons, as that was the study a the time, and the majority of burn victims tend to be pythons or larger bodied snakes such as boas. from what i understand, their natural reaction to pain it to try and 'kill' it, they are not runners, they stay and fight, to death sometimes, as can be seen when they are eating live prey, if the animal bites, then instead of leaving it, the snake constricts harder, clamping down, to try and minimise the preys ability to move and do more damage. its that mentality that leads to them getting burnt, with the difference being that they cant win against a faulty heatmat.
the idea of a stat is not to prevent a heat mat from faulting, but to try and minimise the damage it can do whilst at fault.
Something else that can occur is Thermal Blocking, this tends to only happen with big snakes, which is why if your snake can cover the entire mat then you should use another heat source.
Basically, when the whole heat mat is covered, the mat generates hot spots, they can occur anywhere on the heatmat, and annoyingly tend to be away from the stat probe. Thermal blocking can cause huge heat build up in the mat, and cause some pretty horrific burns. that is why you should never cover the mat completely, as per instrucitons on the mat (on most anyway).
there is a pretty horrific photo knocking about of a burmese python that was neglected with a heatmat in a cold room, the snake hogged the mat to stay warm and blocked the mats ability to dispense heat, as a result the snake was very badly burnt (through muscle tissue), to the point that it had to be put to sleep.
Heatmats require air flow over their surface t function correctly, under bedding is fine as there is still airflow, but sticking things over the top is not a great idea.
To answer the OP, i dont stick the mats down at all, well, the ones in the vivs anyway. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Edited by - mikerichards on 19/01/2011 19:43:40 |
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infatuateddrummer
Egg
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 21:23:44
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| Thank u for your helpfully comments there much appreciated |
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2011 : 23:45:33
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Infatuated drummer - sorry for my harsh reply, thought you were being funny.
Mike - do you not advise covering mats with vinyl or similar then? And are mats safe enough just held down with a hide and thin layer of aspen?
Gaz |
0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 20/01/2011 : 07:47:59
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I don't advise it, and some manufacturers say not to, but its up to you.
A hide and bedding is enough. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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a33272
our battery charger
United Kingdom
3063 Posts |
Posted - 20/01/2011 : 08:44:45
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| the main issue is keeping probes in place |
0.1.0 creamsicle corn-Marmalade
1.0.0 jungle carpet python-Bumble
1.0.0 corn Casper
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Gaz_1989
Yearling
United Kingdom
931 Posts |
Posted - 20/01/2011 : 09:26:25
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Cheers mike. I wont bother sticking mats down when I set my new stack up.
Regards keeping probes in place - I have always just put a hide on top of the probe, wether in viv or faun. Never had an issue at all. |
0.0.1 CB15 Amel Corn - Billy
1.0.0 CB16 Brazilian Rainbow Boa - Hunter |
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Ammerz
Hatchling
United Kingdom
168 Posts |
Posted - 20/01/2011 : 11:35:03
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| i have a floor tile over mine. |
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a33272
our battery charger
United Kingdom
3063 Posts |
Posted - 20/01/2011 : 11:48:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Gaz_1989
Regards keeping probes in place - I have always just put a hide on top of the probe, wether in viv or faun. Never had an issue at all.
as they get bigger and start pushing stuff about you will find probes have a habit of being dislodged from where u put them lol. thats why my probes are glued to my mat |
0.1.0 creamsicle corn-Marmalade
1.0.0 jungle carpet python-Bumble
1.0.0 corn Casper
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Topic |
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What do u use?? Should I be worried?
