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scotsman
Egg
71 Posts |
 Posted - 29/11/2010 : 23:36:57
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Hi everyone,
I have been asked to write a thread her about Stargazer, I am not the Guru for Stargazer but I have done my homework.
I am a Scotsman but have been living in Germany since 1989 so please forgive any grammatical mistakes 
Stargazer is a recessivley inhereited Gene mutation, it causes Neurological disruptions in a Corn Snake. A Stargazer Corn tends to look into the Sky hence the name "Stargazer", if a Stargazer Corn gets excited then the effect seems to get bigger the more excited it is, this can even lead to a Corn "falling" onto its back and it will keep crawling on its back. To look at such a Corn is heart breaking for every Corn lover, but it doesn't seem to affect thier life quality, it seems they have no pain or discomfort due to the Gene.
Stargazer Corns eat, shed, poop quite normally (possibly a bit more, or more spread about pooping than non stargazers), but sadly they can also breed just as normal corns do. Which means everyone who has a Stargazer Corn, or thinks they have a Stargazer Corn, please don't use it for Breeding projects!
The main problem with the Gene is how it is inherited, it is exactly the same as Amelanistic or Anerythristic, which means you can get Corns that are het for Stargazer. No matter what you have heard up to date, there are no "Symptoms" visible by a het Stargazer Corn, they have no abnormal behaviour, so any breeder that says "there are no symptoms for Stargazer" has no idea what he is talking about!
The Gene was discovered by Kathy Love in the early 1990s, from the same line, at the same time as she discovered Sunkissed, this would be a reason for everyone to say "Sunkissed and Stargazer are connected", this is true. But thanks to a few greedy or careless breeders, the Gene has been crossed out to just about every other gene there is. **************************
The only reasonable way to test at the moment is Breeding tests, many breeders don't want to do this because they will "lose" 1 or 2 years time in comparison to the other Breeders, this is nonsense. I am a breeder and I only want to pass on Corns that I know are healthy and have no possible "side affects".
Sadly not all Breeding tests are not 100% certain.
If you use a known het Stargazer to test a poss het Stargazer, then there needs to be a minimum of 16 eggs, when they all hatch and no Stargazer hatches then the chance is that the tested Corn is 99% Stargazer free. This is different if you use a hom. Stargazer to test, the amount of hatchlings is greatly reduced then, but 100% certainty is never given. If you ask me 99% certainty is still better than putting blinkers on to the problem, which many breeders do.
Check all the forums you know and look at any Stargazer comments, I bet there are at least 1 Breeder that says "I have bred Sunkissed for years, also crossed parents and offspring, I have never had a Stargazer", this may be true, but it proves nothing!!!!!
Example:
Male Sunkissed het Stargazer X Female Sunkissed non Stargazer
all hatchlings will be Sunkissed 50% poss het Stargazer
If I cross a male hatchling to its mother, it doesn'T matter if the hatchling is het Stargazer or not, there will be no Stargazers in the clutch because the mother is not het, but all the hatchlings frm the clutch are poss het Stargazer, because it is not known.
This is a mistake that lots of Breeders are making at the moment, how many breeders have said at some point "it was a surprise that Amel was in there", it is exactly the same with Stargazer, only Stargazer is not a welcome surprise.
Stargazer is a problem, it will get bigger and bigger over the next few years, please don't shut your eyes to it!
Thank you for reading.
Editted to avoid libel. |
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Edited by - gmac on 13/12/2010 19:02:03 |
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Tiffany-x
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1189 Posts |
Posted - 30/11/2010 : 18:26:42
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I am currently doing a huge genetics project at college and from what I know of stargazing and gentics this has just confirmed everything that I presumed so thank you so much for this thread it is great. I think I might use stargazing as my recessive gene mutation to study, but can I ask one question, does anyone know what the mutation it is,? If not Im sure I can find out, Im just lazy! :P Thank you, you have already been such an incredible addition to the forum! :)
Tiffany-x |
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Kehhlyr
ǝʞɐɔ sǝʌoן
United Kingdom
8173 Posts |
Posted - 30/11/2010 : 20:23:45
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| Just remember me if you have any stargazers hatch. |
-=Kehhlyr - The Resident Loon
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Tiffany-x
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1189 Posts |
Posted - 30/11/2010 : 20:34:15
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Kehhlyr, I know you like stargazers, I heard you mention it before to, do you mind me asking if there is a reason?
Tiffany-x |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
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Kehhlyr
ǝʞɐɔ sǝʌoן
United Kingdom
8173 Posts |
Posted - 30/11/2010 : 23:16:54
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Then any responsible breeder should also know that they need me to have one.
No matter how little space I have, i'd always have space for a gazer. |
-=Kehhlyr - The Resident Loon
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Tiffany-x
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1189 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2010 : 07:14:32
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quote:
Originally posted by eeji
Tiffany: theres a couple of videos of stargazers here: http://iansvivarium.com/morphguide/stargazer/ that clearly shows how the mutation manifests.
@K any responsible breeder that has SG won't be selling them to try to help its eradication - any unscrupulous breeders that have SG will keep quiet about it if they know and just sell off hets or poss hets without saying anything to anyone.
Thank you, Ive already seen those videos, Im on IV every other day, Ive looked at every morph like twice including the stargazer section! Its a really helpful piece of information, but then again so is the rest of the site, and Im sure the new one will be too!! But like I said thank you anyway, I always appreciate help. :)
Tiffany-x |
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Edited by - gmac on 13/12/2010 19:01:02 |
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FiestaSTLou
Yearling
United Kingdom
556 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2010 : 15:51:14
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dunno if this is a dumb question but is this similar to the gene spider royals carry?
Only ask cos of seeing the vids its similar behavour to our skye the spider royal, she has a bad head wobble bless her. |
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scotsman
Egg
71 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2010 : 16:58:16
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| Hi, nope its nothing like the Spider Wobbley head thing. By Corns it is a recessive Gene, as far as I know (no expert though) Royals and Boas is caused by Bacteria/Virus of some sort. |
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hiper2009
Banned
United Kingdom
2197 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2010 : 17:05:30
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quote:
Originally posted by FiestaSTLou
dunno if this is a dumb question but is this similar to the gene spider royals carry?
Only ask cos of seeing the vids its similar behavour to our skye the spider royal, she has a bad head wobble bless her.
Good question , But far as i know thats the only royal morph (Spider) that has the head wobble. |
0.0.0 Royal Python Het Pied 100% CB10 - Chaos
1.1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa CB10 - Bow/Mayhem
0.1.0 Cornsnake Amel Het Motley CB10 - Fire
1.0.0 Cornsnake Caramel Het Motley CB09 - Whisky
1.0.0 Cornsnake Snow Het Stripe CB07 - Romeo - R.I.P
1.0.0 Super Golden Labrador Dog CB02 - Bailey
Wish List:
1.2.0 Royal Python - Pastel , Pinstripe , Lesser. |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2010 : 19:43:47
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quote:
Originally posted by scotsman
I am a Scotsman
Well, that explains everything lmao XD
Very informative though. Love the amount of slagging off people do in other forums though lmao XD |
   
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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scotsman
Egg
71 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2010 : 20:52:31
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A few photos that fit to this thread.
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Figs
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3319 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2010 : 21:48:45
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Poor snakey - he looks so dopey 
If somebody did do the breeding test and the babies came out as stargazers what would happen to them?
Would they be culled or sold like kinked snakes are (as pets only)? |
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Kehhlyr
ǝʞɐɔ sǝʌoן
United Kingdom
8173 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2010 : 22:08:01
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From what I know Figs, most would be euthanised to stop the chances of people breeding them in the future.
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-=Kehhlyr - The Resident Loon
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scotsman
Egg
71 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2010 : 23:43:02
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| Its sad but thats the way it is, if an Adult Corn is proven het SG then it can be used as a test Snake or a pet, but hatchlings sadly will or better said should be euthanised unless somebody trustworthy needs test Snakes. |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2010 : 23:40:02
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quote:
Originally posted by scotsman
Hi, nope its nothing like the Spider Wobbley head thing. By Corns it is a recessive Gene, as far as I know (no expert though) Royals and Boas is caused by Bacteria/Virus of some sort.
the spider wobble and the corn stargazing are caused by a neurological problem from a mutated gene. The boas and royals stargazing are a symptom of IBD, a retrovirus. Corn stargazing is not fatal, IBD is 100% fatal 100% of the time. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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FiestaSTLou
Yearling
United Kingdom
556 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2010 : 23:23:59
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| thank you for clearing that up :) |
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2012 : 23:02:49
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I have another photo of a Stargazer Corn but it isn't my corn... Am I aloud to post it just to show what it can do as I completely disagree with it...
gmac-link removed as its copyrighted to Bill Love
If not a MOD can delete this post :) |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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gmac
The Scottish Admin
United Kingdom
5319 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2012 : 23:15:23
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for more information on Stargazer in cornsnakes have a look through this page on FB and dont be afraid to ask questions,
https://www.facebook.com/groups/165617050232930/
This is an another image of a gazer corn, we have this one
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Georgina
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2382 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2012 : 23:21:58
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quote:
Originally posted by AcidicAngel
I have another photo of a Stargazer Corn but it isn't my corn... Am I aloud to post it just to show what it can do as I completely disagree with it...
what do you mean disagree with it?
breeding and selling? |
1.0 western hognose (hero)
1.0 phantom reverse pin dal brindle crested gecko (goyle)
0.2 red dal red harly (sprite) 99% full pin Harley crested gecko (TuLong)
0.0.3 miomantis paykullii
0.0.3 Bombina orientalis (oriental fire bellied toad)
0.3 fancy mice (snap, crackle and pop)
1.0 yorkshire terrier (jasper)
2.1 cats (echo, shadow and pokey) |
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coxymk2
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1245 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 00:12:02
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| This may sound stupid but i have no knowledge of hets etc. But is this gene mutation similar to the problems caused by inbreeding that has happened in other animals due to unscrupulous breeders trying to get the perfect or new type of animal sub-species. |
0.0.1 ANERY (Liquorice)
0.0.1 CAROLINA (Bangle)
0.0.1 AMEL (Boozer)
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Stargazer and the future problems.
