| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Helsbels |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 13:16:04
Hello Everyone, I have only been on the forum a week but I wanted to share my experience I had on the weekend when buying a new snake from a shop called *Name removed* in Brighton. The shop supposedly calls itself a 'specialist Herpetological Supply shop', which I foolishly felt was a step up from a standard pet shop (and therefore good levels of care and advice). I checked it out online and could find no bad reviews. How wrong I was! I went with my boyfriend to buy our new corn there on the weekend. I had previously spoken to the proprietor on the phone and told him that we were coming in to view the young corns he had for sale. He was overly keen to sell us a 6 month old Butter corn, when we has specifically asked to see some Anerys that were listed in stock. The Butter was very friendly and docile, and we loved him straight away. However, when we viewed all the other snakes including the Anerys, they seems absolutely terrified, I've never seen snakes looking so skittish. I looked at an adult for sale in a corner viv and noticed a scar along it's side. None of the snakes had any feeding or shedding records. Normally, I would not have bought a snake at this point, due to the lack of records. I asked about feeding and was given some glossed over reply telling me that they were feeding fine and 'not to worry about the feeding records'. Whilst we were talking about feeding I mentioned feeding the snake in a rub, and the proprietor was very indignant that I shouldn't bother and all of his snakes are fed on substrate, 'Nah that's a load of rubbish' he said about feeding them in a RUB!. I argued with him that I was sure it was not good for the snake to be fed on substrate, and he spoke to me like I was an idiot, saying I should never take them ou to feed them! (BTW I will never be feeding my snakes on substrate!). Anyway, by this time I was so concerned about the welfare of the reptiles in there that I decided to buy the Butter because I did not want him staying in that shop with an uncertain future. I went to pay, and he tried to charge me over £90 for a 6 month old Butter!!! I told him that I wasn't a mug, that I was completely aware of how much a Butter should cost £50- 55, and that i wasn't prepared to pay. He told me that he would come down to £80, then eventually I knocked him down to £70. He point blank refused to go any lower, and I ended up givig him the £70 just to get out of there and take the snake with us. Whe we got home we were worried that our new snake, (now called Butters) had not been fed, so before we put him in the viv to settle in we put him in the rub and gave him a pinkie which he took straight out of the tongs and ate in less than 5 seconds. He must have been so hungry, bless him!!
In a nutshell, *Name removed* sell reptiles at vastly over-inflated prices, give out advice that could potentially be lethal to their livestock, do not keep records on their snakes and I am dubious about the quality of care their reptiles are receiving. Please, please avoid this place if you live in the east Sussex area.
**Butters our new corn seems to be doing very well considering, he is very active and actually comes up to the glass to check us out when we walk past. He is setling in this week but I will post pictures of our very pricey little baby when we handle him for the first time next week**
***edited by K |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 24/01/2012 : 18:39:50
The reptile rescue does look like a great place their, so sad to see that lovely cali king still there, think he's been there for over a year now :( |
| Helsbels |
Posted - 24/01/2012 : 14:02:20
Thank you for your help. I called the RSPCA reptile centre today just to find out a bit more about what they do. It was really interesting to speak to them, they have not just rescued snakes of all ages but will also provide viviariums with full kit that are suitable for the size of the snake, and at excellent prices. We don't have room at the moment, but when we move next year i would definitely like think about rehoming a rescue snake. Thanks again for the tip. |
| Tallscientist |
Posted - 24/01/2012 : 11:54:06
quote:
Originally posted by Helsbels
As I said, I bought him because I was worried about him, because of all the bad things I had read (especially on this forum) about feeding on substrate. I do appreciate all of your opinions, but honestly, the whole experience wasn't pleasant. I wish there were some better shops in the area, as I do want to vote with my feet. Does anyone know of any good independent rep shops in the local Brighton/ East Sussex area, (I do not know if you are allowed to mention them on the forum but if you do know please let me know and I'll give you my hotmail address). The only other shop I've found that stocks reptile supplies around here is Pets At Home. It would be really nice to have a local shop that I can visit like the shop Spreebok mentioned. Thanks
I believe the (possibly the only) RSPCA reptile rescue centre is just north of Brighton, check their website http://www.rspcareptilerescue.co.uk/ |
| Dancross0 |
Posted - 24/01/2012 : 08:07:06
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
be assured, I was there when the rspca officer came in,
they did take only the python, and put measures in for the corns as the corns were in much better condition than the python
the python was took there and then, no police required, as RSPCA has right to take animals, it is only when the keepers refuse that police will get involved or if they need to search premises or enter premises otherwise locked up and force entry needed.
this pet store kept to their conditions, and they were signed off, but they did not want to return the python, no court case and no fines were ever imposed in this situation
i suppose it depends on which part of the country as to how they operate, because similarly one county police force can give parking tickets whereas another police force in another county can not. its a hit and miss game by the sound of it
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
I'm speaking from personal experience of dealing with a pet store where there was an ill python, and where hatchlings being fed half a pinky
2 days later they had visit, measures put in place, python took away
python never been returned to them, and they had monthly check ups on steps put in place,
since new steps, pet shop got new set up etc and everything is perfect (apart from some of the staffs knowledge)
Local council will revoke licencing based on info and investigation by RSPCA
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
RSPCA would only get involved if a complaint was made.
All complaints they normally send out an officer, as a surprise visit who will look through.
No, it takes billions of complaints, and even then they may not look. They don't care unelss its going to get media attention and they can sue. Indivuals care but they can't act out the guide lines. It's the local council you talk to if you have problems, who will the look round and decide if futhuur action needs to be taken.
You may want to wedge something ionbetween the viv doors so snakie doens't escape the viv.
I was speaking from experience, they don't give a ****e and the council is the best option. They wouldn't just tale a python away if that was the case, they would have taken more animals or closed the shop down and seized the animals pending further investigation if the RSPCA were involved as they have to work with the police and the law.
The way it works is if the RSPCA gets enough calls/reports they will inform the environmental health officer at the local council (or if the local council recieves a number of reports).
The environmental health officer deals with pet shop licencing (conditions,etc). They in turn will orginise a unannouced visit to the petshop with a vet to assess the conditions, and may well seize animals with or without the RSPCA's help, depending on resources.
All in all, it depends on the conditions of individual animals. They may take one animal and give the owner/s a right testicaling and draw up plans to close the petshop until the proper conditions are met.
But as each case is individual, so it's hard to say what could happen in each case.
(BTW, one of my mates works as the environmental health officer at my local council, so I had a quick chat with him last night) |
| CentricMalteser85 |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 23:50:22
be assured, I was there when the rspca officer came in,
they did take only the python, and put measures in for the corns as the corns were in much better condition than the python
the python was took there and then, no police required, as RSPCA has right to take animals, it is only when the keepers refuse that police will get involved or if they need to search premises or enter premises otherwise locked up and force entry needed.
this pet store kept to their conditions, and they were signed off, but they did not want to return the python, no court case and no fines were ever imposed in this situation
i suppose it depends on which part of the country as to how they operate, because similarly one county police force can give parking tickets whereas another police force in another county can not. its a hit and miss game by the sound of it
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
I'm speaking from personal experience of dealing with a pet store where there was an ill python, and where hatchlings being fed half a pinky
2 days later they had visit, measures put in place, python took away
python never been returned to them, and they had monthly check ups on steps put in place,
since new steps, pet shop got new set up etc and everything is perfect (apart from some of the staffs knowledge)
Local council will revoke licencing based on info and investigation by RSPCA
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
RSPCA would only get involved if a complaint was made.
All complaints they normally send out an officer, as a surprise visit who will look through.
No, it takes billions of complaints, and even then they may not look. They don't care unelss its going to get media attention and they can sue. Indivuals care but they can't act out the guide lines. It's the local council you talk to if you have problems, who will the look round and decide if futhuur action needs to be taken.
You may want to wedge something ionbetween the viv doors so snakie doens't escape the viv.
I was speaking from experience, they don't give a ****e and the council is the best option. They wouldn't just tale a python away if that was the case, they would have taken more animals or closed the shop down and seized the animals pending further investigation if the RSPCA were involved as they have to work with the police and the law.
|
| Helsbels |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 21:48:59
As I said, I bought him because I was worried about him, because of all the bad things I had read (especially on this forum) about feeding on substrate. I do appreciate all of your opinions, but honestly, the whole experience wasn't pleasant. I wish there were some better shops in the area, as I do want to vote with my feet. Does anyone know of any good independent rep shops in the local Brighton/ East Sussex area, (I do not know if you are allowed to mention them on the forum but if you do know please let me know and I'll give you my hotmail address). The only other shop I've found that stocks reptile supplies around here is Pets At Home. It would be really nice to have a local shop that I can visit like the shop Spreebok mentioned. Thanks |
| oakleyman18 |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 20:33:11
Well said Boba Fett  |
| Georgina |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 20:23:51
quote:
Originally posted by lotabob
You still bought from him so he has no incentive to amend his selling techniques. Venting on a forum after the fact is not going to help anything, vote with your feet, walk away.
here here |
| lotabob |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 20:22:35
You still bought from him so he has no incentive to amend his selling techniques. Venting on a forum after the fact is not going to help anything, vote with your feet, walk away. |
| Spreebok |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 20:13:28
Sounds more like your upset because the guy was a bit of a tool, but it doesn't mean he shouldn't be selling.
But I don't blame you for being upset considering his behaviour, I agree, buying a new wiggler should be fun and exciting, hence why I get all my wigglers from my local (Exeter Exotics). Ladies there are fab, and whilst I pay a bit more than from a breeder, the service, friendly attitude and happiness to have a good old chat keeps me going back! Not to mention they're always happy to get anything out for me to have a cuddle with! That's the kind of experience it should be! :) |
| Georgina |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 20:09:34
if you were selling something, you would want to get the best price for it? if you 100% belived something was right (i.e feeding on substrate) you would make sure people knew that was your opinion. the substrate feeding thing is similar to the cohab thing, its a choice that we as keepers decide and for rep shops to advise, and thats all he did, he gave you his opinion as a keeper what he feels is right. i think that you need to be carful slating rep shops when yourself do not know enough on the topic. also snakes get injure just as any other animal, to slate the owner is like say a mother is a bad mother if their child fell over and bumped his head, these things happen and more than likley didnt happen at the shop. i originally thought a couple of the shops near me were in the wrong and not caring properly but its all prefernce and variations of the same.
(not meany to sound full of it)
:) |
| Helsbels |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 19:58:34
Sorry I didn't realise that putting the name down would cause problems, so I apologise. I will stick by what I said though, that I do not believe he should be marking up snakes so high (even though he can do what he likes and there is no law against it). He was trying it on to make more money. Also I have read so many things, especially on this forum, where people are very adamant that snakes should not be fed on their substrate. People seem to feel very strongly about it. In almost every care sheet I have read it states that you should not buy a snake without a feeding/ shedding record.
The whole experience was not very nice, the proprietor spoke to me as if I was stupid, laughing at me and completely dismissing me out of turn when I mentioned feeding him a rub, and on that basis I think that if you are looking to buy a first snake then it would be a good idea to give the place a wide berth. I felt uncomfortable. I do appreciate everyone's opinions, and I understand what you are saying about younger snakes being skittish. However, I wouldn't really want anyone else to have a similar experience to the one I had, when it should have been an exciting and fun afternoon. |
| Mort13 |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:58:25
I have to agree with whats been said,no offence.
The wildest,flightiest corn I've had was from a very reputable breeder,its took me a couple of months to calm him down. Its a hatchlings instinct to try and get away,they don't know you're not a predator.
I've been in a few pet shops that have has skinny snakes,or snakes with injuries and these have been rescues,you can't make a complaint based on assumption.
My local pet shop sells normals for £45,shops always tend to charge more due to overheads etc and to be honest I don't know of many that bother with records. Yes,they should but a lot don't.
The majority of my collection are fed in a tub,but I have a few that its not suitable for so they get fed in their enclosure. A lot of shops wouldn't have the time to get every single animal out for feeding.
|
| eeji |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:34:44
i don't see anything wrong with what you've reported.
1 - Terrified snakes. Not terrified, just defensive which is natural behaviour especially for younger snakes
2 - Scar - That could have happened at any time, not necessarily in the shop
3 - Records - not many shops keep records because the animals are just 'passing through' and usually don't stay for so long. I myself don't keep any records.
4 - Feeding on substrate - If the substrate is suitable for the age and size of the snake then I don't see a problem. All mine are fed on substrate.
5 - Price - There is no set price for any animal, the seller can charge what he likes. Don't forget a shops prices will be higher because they have overheads to cover.
6 - 'Starving snake' - Just because a snake takes food immediately and swallows it quickly does not mean it is starving. It is an indication of a good and healthy feeder. If it swallowed very fast then maybe you fed it something too small for its needs?
If you are concerned about their welfare then you need to be in touch with your local councils licensing department but to be honest I really don't think they will find anything wrong, and the RSPCA will probably just laugh at you. |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:24:21
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
I'm speaking from personal experience of dealing with a pet store where there was an ill python, and where hatchlings being fed half a pinky
2 days later they had visit, measures put in place, python took away
python never been returned to them, and they had monthly check ups on steps put in place,
since new steps, pet shop got new set up etc and everything is perfect (apart from some of the staffs knowledge)
Local council will revoke licencing based on info and investigation by RSPCA
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
RSPCA would only get involved if a complaint was made.
All complaints they normally send out an officer, as a surprise visit who will look through.
No, it takes billions of complaints, and even then they may not look. They don't care unelss its going to get media attention and they can sue. Indivuals care but they can't act out the guide lines. It's the local council you talk to if you have problems, who will the look round and decide if futhuur action needs to be taken.
You may want to wedge something ionbetween the viv doors so snakie doens't escape the viv.
I was speaking from experience, they don't give a ****e and the council is the best option. They wouldn't just tale a python away if that was the case, they would have taken more animals or closed the shop down and seized the animals pending further investigation if the RSPCA were involved as they have to work with the police and the law. |
| SexyBear77 |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:22:09
I really am failing to see a problem.
You bought a healthy, friendly snake from a guy who was willing to go lower on price (something a lot of shops wouldn't even entertain) that is seemingly a good feeder. I'd be pretty pleased...
Feeding records are not a must- yeah, it might be nice and reassuring to have them, but they can easily be faked and therefore mean nothing. I don't think I've ever requested, nor recieved feeding records with any shop-bought snakes, and a fair few of my privately bought snakes haven't had them either.
Feeding in the viv is, as mentioned, personal choice- I feed all mine in their tubs or vivs, on their substrate, a product called Megazorb. Apart from ensuring I feed dry prey items, I take no other major precautions against substrate ingestion. Feeding in a separate tub *can* cause stress, and does nothing to reduce the risk of "feeding-aggression", something I feel is total nonsense. I have been at the recieving end of food related bites with a corn that was fed in a tub- this stopped completely when I started feeding said snake in it's viv. I also have a couple of sub-adults that, let me assure you, would become very stressed and snappy with being moved about to feed.
Price wise, you paid less than most shops would charge- £90+, although steep, is average for shop bought morphs. Shops have to make decent profits, or they don't survive.
Food wise, be glad you bought a good feeder- the fact it struck and ate so quick in no way means that it was starving hungry.
The snake with a scar may have been a rescue- did you ask?
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| CentricMalteser85 |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:20:50
I'm speaking from personal experience of dealing with a pet store where there was an ill python, and where hatchlings being fed half a pinky
2 days later they had visit, measures put in place, python took away
python never been returned to them, and they had monthly check ups on steps put in place,
since new steps, pet shop got new set up etc and everything is perfect (apart from some of the staffs knowledge)
Local council will revoke licencing based on info and investigation by RSPCA
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
RSPCA would only get involved if a complaint was made.
All complaints they normally send out an officer, as a surprise visit who will look through.
No, it takes billions of complaints, and even then they may not look. They don't care unelss its going to get media attention and they can sue. Indivuals care but they can't act out the guide lines. It's the local council you talk to if you have problems, who will the look round and decide if futhuur action needs to be taken.
You may want to wedge something ionbetween the viv doors so snakie doens't escape the viv.
|
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:16:32
quote:
Originally posted by CentricMalteser85
RSPCA would only get involved if a complaint was made.
All complaints they normally send out an officer, as a surprise visit who will look through.
No, it takes billions of complaints, and even then they may not look. They don't care unelss its going to get media attention and they can sue. Indivuals care but they can't act out the guide lines. It's the local council you talk to if you have problems, who will the look round and decide if futhuur action needs to be taken.
You may want to wedge something ionbetween the viv doors so snakie doens't escape the viv. |
| kelfezond |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:16:32
If it's a big shop it'll take an awfully long time to feed every corn in a rub, most shops i've been to all feed on substrate |
| Spreebok |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 18:08:14
It's a scar though, not an open/recent wound. It could have been an accident, or is in the shop to be rehomed maybe?
I wouldn't call the rscpa for the info given. If the snakes were left unheated, in dirty tubs/vivs, and looked lethargic, I would call. The fact that the hatchlings were skittish and wiggly is a good thing, they're healthy and in good enough mind to try and run from a potential predator.
And yeah, he could be considered overpriced, but that's the price you pay in some places. Some places charge £65 for normals, my local charges £25 for them.
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