| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jo-And-Danny |
Posted - 05/03/2010 : 15:39:52
We took our big lad to our reptile rescue expert who kindly probed him for us to confirm he was definately a male, not that we had any doubts! He said he was a lovely looking snake and has offered to find us some prices for a female for him in a year or so time when he's grown and bulked up a bit 
He's feeding well, put on about 26g in a month so not looking too much like a shoe lace anymore!
I took a couple of photo's of his viv at the moment, then was going to take a couple more of him but i turned round and he had his tail up and gave us the HUGEST 'present' i'd ever seen!!!!! 
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kellog |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 04:05:08
I tend to think that everyone has given their views on the need for accurate thermometers (and might I add that Jo-and-Danny did say they were going to get a digital one).
I think that majority of us agree that while we can supposedly try and imitate life in the wild for our corns, our corns are not in the wild and therefore we need to provide an environment that is safe and, not only makes-do for the snake, but provide the best for the snake - they are our responsibility.
It is a known fact that heat mats and stats malfunction and that, in itself, is a reason for getting a digital thermometer than can accurately measure the temperature that the probe for the stat is measuring. It is also necessary for the temperature to be measured at the point where the snake will be getting its heat - substrate level and not the ambient temperature. In the wild the snake would have a whole area to escape from heat or cold and allow them to thermoregulate, whereas our snakes have only a limited space that is not enough for them to thermoregulate properly if the temps in their viv are not what they need them to be.
Jo-and-Danny - I must admit that you have mentioned this 'expert' a number of times, in conjunction with advice that a number of us has found questionable and said so at the time. I would have thought that with the number of experienced owners who have commented about this it would have made you stop and think. He may have 20yrs experience with the RSPCA, but that is probably with a number of animals and not with actually caring for reps for long periods of time.
I am not sure if you are still housing the hatchlings together, but if you are - The problem is that you are not experienced enough to necessarily see the signs of stress before it is too late. I know you have read the co-habiting topic and it may seem that they are living happily together at the moment, but that can change in the matter of a second - with horrific results - or over a slow period of time.....when what you see as them cuddling together is them competing for the best spot in the viv or with one of them being more nervy or smaller than it should be even if it is eating. You have no idea how different and better their lives would be if they were apart. You go on about how it would be in the wild.....but in the wild corn snakes live separately and would only come together to mate, so why are yours in the same viv when they would not be living together in the wild?
Hiper - you should not make assumptions from just what you can see in a pic....you should have asked whether they had a light guard not just assumed they didnt. And the same about the mat and stat - just cos you cant see the wires doesnt mean they are not there.
Can I just remind people that we need to respect other members of the forum....it may be that we give advice and people choose not to follow it, but at the end of the day that is their choice and we cannot badger them into doing it 'our way'. All we can do is suggest what we see as 'best practice' regarding the care of the snakes and the decision whether to follow that advice is down to the OP.
xxx
(Staple - your question regarding the digital thermometer's placing. I have mine inside the viv lying in the corner on the top of the substrate and the snakes just slide around them and over them without it being a problem.) |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 16:41:22
quote:
Originally posted by DannyBrown91
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
quote:
Originally posted by SexyBear77
How is a digital thermometer as inaccurate as a piece of plastic with a dial?
Well, if they are running low on power I imagine they can read the wrong temperature and there can be some manufacturer errors.
But none the less the majority of the time are accurate to within around 0.5 degrees and are more accurate than the dial therms.
And I don't doubt that. What I was trying to get at was that most reasonable dial therms shouldn't be off that much in temperature and if they are off, they should only be off by 1 and that any thermometer kind can read incorrectly.I myself am interested in getting a digital thermometer as it will be easier to read than having to stand in the right place and look into the viv to see the tempature. If you did have a digital themoter does the readout go inside or outside. I imagine outside as if it were inside it the snake could crawl on it and knock it off |
| DannyBrown91 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 16:05:14
quote:
Originally posted by Jo-And-Danny
The viv is 3ft long, 2ft high and 2 ft wide
All thermometers can go wrong indeed, ours at work have to be caliberated every day to make sure theyre correct
But still digi's are better than dials and the dial you have 1 foot above the floor isn't doing anything for you. |
| DannyBrown91 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 16:04:20
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
quote:
Originally posted by SexyBear77
How is a digital thermometer as inaccurate as a piece of plastic with a dial?
Well, if they are running low on power I imagine they can read the wrong temperature and there can be some manufacturer errors.
But none the less the majority of the time are accurate to within around 0.5 degrees and are more accurate than the dial therms. |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 15:37:44
quote:
Originally posted by SexyBear77
How is a digital thermometer as inaccurate as a piece of plastic with a dial?
Well, if they are running low on power I imagine they can read the wrong temperature and there can be some manufacturer errors. |
| Jo-And-Danny |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 14:48:41
The viv is 3ft long, 2ft high and 2 ft wide
All thermometers can go wrong indeed, ours at work have to be caliberated every day to make sure theyre correct |
| DannyBrown91 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 14:25:15
I got dial therms with my set ups and bought digitals aswell and the digi's show that the one dial was out by 2 and 2 of them were out by between 3 and 4 degrees. |
| SexyBear77 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 14:22:16
How is a digital thermometer as inaccurate as a piece of plastic with a dial? |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 14:01:43
Lovely looking tank! How big is it may I ask?
And um not to cause any more fights but digital thermometer can just be as inaccurate, especially those that run on batteries. It is often very difficult to get a complete accurate reading but if anyone wants one use lab thermometer. And even then, they can read incorrectly as their life expires. I have a lab thermometer and the same thermometer as shown in the picture from what I can tell and they both read the same temperature, -1, +1 out at times. I doubt that a company specialising in reptiles would make a thermometer that reads drastic incorrect temperatures and if they do, it's probably very noticeable. A reading of -1, +1 isn't really going to effect your snake a great deal if your temperatures are set within the correct range.
I am quite interested in getting a digital thermometer now though as the display will be easier to read... XD |
| Jo-And-Danny |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:50:37
1. you can see from th shadows on th viv we have a bulb guard, th flash on the camera also made the light brighten so imparing the vision
and
2. you cant see any wires down the side of the viv because of the angle. theres about 3 wires down there. light, thermostat and heat mat |
| hiper2009 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:45:10
Just from looking at the pics , you can see no wire for digital thermo , no probe wire for thermo stat , no bulb guard for the bulb , I suppose your expert told you not to get this ?
With out these things you could seriously injur your snake it can burn its self and before you say your expert says your snakling cant reach the bulb , well they can they are expert climbers !. |
| SexyBear77 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:17:18
quote:
Originally posted by Jo-And-Danny
well we've never had a problem with any of our snakes theyre all happy, healthy and active. And as for the 'expert' , he has worked with the RSPCA, council and police for over 20 years, is that expert enough??????
Hiper, i wish we'd got our corns directly from breeder! We paid £40 for Hissy, our Amel, and have seen them from as little as £20 on some sites!!! £20/£30 is great for a normal Royal, is it a private breeder you go to or is it a more well known one?
No.
I highly doubt your babies are happy living together, in such a big viv, and doubt they are happy about (probably) having less than perfect temps.
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| DannyBrown91 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:05:35
I have to say i have also doubted about this so called expert that you keep talking about. The other day you were saying that little hatchlings are fine in big vivs because thats how they would be in the wild and today its about the temps and the therm. You really do need to get a propper digital thermometer which measures temps on the floor not half way up the side of the viv.
Do you have a stat? If so do you even no what kind of temps it is set too?
What is your therm reading up the top? Its probably just telling you room temperature and if it isn't then it must be seriously hot in that viv.
Oh and just because you have been in a job for 20 years dosn't necesarily make you an expert on that subject. |
| hiper2009 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:56:26
quote:
Originally posted by Jo-And-Danny
We was going to get digital thermometers, but th expert told us what we have is fine. If th temperatures changed slightly they wouldn't change enough to affect the snake, just like in the wild you have hot days and cold days, and the snake will thermo-regulate himself anyway
Dont forget you have a captive bred snake not a wild snake so you can't treat it like its in the wild, your feeding it frozen so your treating it like a captive bred but then you say about temps you have hot days and cold days , it dont work like this in captive bred mate you need to sort the temps out properly it could be too hot in the viv and could possibly stresss the snakes out or burn them. |
| Jo-And-Danny |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:52:29
well we've never had a problem with any of our snakes theyre all happy, healthy and active. And as for the 'expert' , he has worked with the RSPCA, council and police for over 20 years, is that expert enough??????
Hiper, i wish we'd got our corns directly from breeder! We paid £40 for Hissy, our Amel, and have seen them from as little as £20 on some sites!!! £20/£30 is great for a normal Royal, is it a private breeder you go to or is it a more well known one? |
| hiper2009 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:51:32
quote:
Originally posted by SexyBear77
quote:
Originally posted by Jo-And-Danny
We was going to get digital thermometers, but th expert told us what we have is fine. If th temperatures changed slightly they wouldn't change enough to affect the snake, just like in the wild you have hot days and cold days, and the snake will thermo-regulate himself anyway
Sorry, is this expert actually an expert, or someone who calls himself an expert? Because alot of what he has told you doesn't sound like an expert opinion.
Temperatures have a direct effect on thermoregulation and your snakes ability to digest food. Those dial therms are bad enough as it is without then being stuck mid way up the wall, inches above where your snake will actually be spending its time- therefore it will be taking the wrong temperature, and isn't accurate to begin with. Your mat may be far too hot, or far too cold.
Too hot can cause stress, and may result in your snake spending to much time in the cold end trying to cool down. Too cold causes lethargy and digestion problems.
I have to agree with SB on this one , You keep saying this expert then i wonder why are you here if your not going to take our advice you have a few hunred ppl on here giving advice and you say about this so called expert , we are trying to help , your expert may be from the rspca but i doubt they know every thing about snakes and stuff. |
| SexyBear77 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:30:54
quote:
Originally posted by Jo-And-Danny
We was going to get digital thermometers, but th expert told us what we have is fine. If th temperatures changed slightly they wouldn't change enough to affect the snake, just like in the wild you have hot days and cold days, and the snake will thermo-regulate himself anyway
Sorry, is this expert actually an expert, or someone who calls himself an expert? Because alot of what he has told you doesn't sound like an expert opinion.
Temperatures have a direct effect on thermoregulation and your snakes ability to digest food. Those dial therms are bad enough as it is without then being stuck mid way up the wall, inches above where your snake will actually be spending its time- therefore it will be taking the wrong temperature, and isn't accurate to begin with. Your mat may be far too hot, or far too cold.
Too hot can cause stress, and may result in your snake spending to much time in the cold end trying to cool down. Too cold causes lethargy and digestion problems.
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| hiper2009 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:29:03
quote:
Originally posted by Jo-And-Danny
its quite a lot of money for a snake that! do your best to pick a female 
yeah £40 is good even if it is jus a normal royal, we paid more than that for all 3 of our corns!!!!
our rspca expert knows the good breeders and can also get us competetive prices our local rep shop gets their stock from Crystal Palace Reptiles, not sure if theyre any good or not
I agree i paid like £55 on my snow way more then a normal royal But if i wanted a normal i could get one for around £20 for male and £30 for female they will be CB10's i know a breeder is waiting for them to hatch but will be some wait as the royal only just laid a few days ago. |
| Jo-And-Danny |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:17:18
its quite a lot of money for a snake that! do your best to pick a female
yeah £40 is good even if it is jus a normal royal, we paid more than that for all 3 of our corns!!!!
our rspca expert knows the good breeders and can also get us competetive prices our local rep shop gets their stock from Crystal Palace Reptiles, not sure if theyre any good or not |
| hiper2009 |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:05:30
quote:
Originally posted by Jo-And-Danny
Thanks Hiper
Oh i had a quick question for you! How much is your black pastel Royal costing you? I love them to bits!! Our local rep shop bloke said he can get me a normal hatchling for about £40 which i thought was pretty good, but i do prefer pastels and spiders
They cost £250+ for a hatchling , For £40 he is most proberbly going to sell you a normal royal which is a good deal to be honest but some sellers sell the female for more so when i go to get my black pastel i won't have it sex'd before i buy it due to if it turns out to be female the owner will slap another £80 on to the £250, So im going to go for a random pick then pay for it then have it sex'd. Pastels are nice and i love spiders but if i had the money i would prefer a lesser platnium. |
