| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| CentricMalteser |
Posted - 22/02/2011 : 02:08:02
When my mate got his baby corn - anerythristic motley, about 5 months old and 1ft 3ins, the guy told him a plastic viv is fine, and to stick the heat mat INSIDE at the bottom with substrate on it,
no advice on a heat mat or anything
anyway after few days, i touched the bottom, and the plastic had deformed from the heat and the heat mat was over heating to the point of hotter than boiling water
i think they should make it compulsory
and they should also make people buy ALL the equipment before giving them the animal, OR make the persons bring in evidence, such as pcitures or the viv itself to show the setup
i think by doing this they could cut down at least 25% of animal cruelty and neglect |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tehbunneh |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 01:09:22
Stating is just logical in my opinion. Corn snakes need a set temp range and gradient and the best way to do that is to stat a mat at one end, and make sure it doesn't exceed that top range of 27-29C. How else can you be sure that you are not exceeding 30C in that warm end if its not stated and thermometer'ed?
As for warping plastic and cracking glass where fauns and terrariums are concerned, why risk the danger of it? Read before buying the snake and KNOW what could happen! The same goes for running the risks of not stating. It is NOT the responsibility of pet stores to spoon feed EVERY little bit of information about what can happen to potential buyers, nor state some things that just SEEM to be common sense in terms of hot things on plastic, though it would be fantastic if they did, and put off those individuals that don't want to spend the money on correctly installing their snakes. They wouldn't make the sales they do if that was the case and of COURSE pet shops are going to be about the sales over making sure every snake they sell has all the right stuff! You need to be clued up before going to the pet store, and rely on what YOU have read to ensure that you have the best possible set up for your snake, regardless of whatever information a store operative will tell you. If you want to spend more on stats and mats and all the stuff you know you need, they won't say no! They'll be happy to let you do that, and you'll be happy in the knowledge you did as you needed. However, if you say you'll do the bare minimum, they have no right to reject your claim as an owner.
Its just the way things work, and running to the RSPCA whenever you as a 'clued up' owner think a shop's info is wrong is ridiculous. The RSPCA has no right to apply to the courts to close down stores that are meeting the bare minimum of the law on selling animals; they wouldn't have a foot to stand on. Its ridiculous, I know, and it makes me as angry as the next person, but that is the law system we live in, and as much as people whine and complain that pet stores aren't doing enough to inform potential owners, it won't change anything. Some people will read up before getting a pet, others will just grab what attracts them at the time of seeing it, and will worry about the consequences later when, for example, their snake is severely burnt and in need of medical attention.
That's just my opinion, and that is coming from someone that worked in pet retail for a while. I could no sooner reject the sale of a hamster if the owner had bought at the same time the bare minimum required, then if they came in and said 'we have the set up, we just need the animal'. You couldn't prove a thing about that individual's set up, so you can't actually reject unless you were fairly certain from what answers you get to some very vague questions required by the shop policy that there is insubstantial knowledge and set-up for that animal. |
| lotabob |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 00:50:26
Anyhow, there is a very good reason to stat any heat source you are using with your reptiles and that is for the sake of your reptiles. There are cases of severe malfunctions having the potential to create a fire but its not the main reason they are used. Each type of reptile has a safe temperature range, exceeding it can and does effect the health and wellbeing of the animal so as a safe guard to almost 100% remove the chances of that happening we spend £20-£40 on a stat depending on which stat you choose. In the same way my wimpy dog has to wear a coat when its freezing cold its just a small thing we can do to look after the animal the best we can. If 1 in every 1000 animals (just a made up statistic for illustration) gets burnt by a unstatted heat source I'd rather spend my £20 to ensure my animals aren't the unlucky one. It is such a basic and easy to install piece of equipment I do believe it is irresponsible to not have one, and presuming it hasn't happened yet so it won't is burying your head in the sand, I insure my house for burgulary, subsidance etc, it hasn't happened yet and I hope that it never does but I still have that cover there should it ever happen. |
| CentricMalteser |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 00:15:05
just as i read ur reply before u "fixed" it, replied but then "fixed" mine
i chose to use thermostat jus as matey had a heat mat that was most likely faulty with overheating,
down to person preference and their experience with their pets, jus as some have said they have had no issues not using one, and others decide to use them
quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
fixed
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| mikerichards |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 00:09:45
fixed |
| gmac |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 00:09:08
i have just about had it with you two going at it, I suggest you BOTH read the new post at the very top of the front page.
This stays on track, or there will be consequences.
This is the final word on this arguing subject |
| CentricMalteser |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 00:03:08
Mike, sorry to burst your ego bubble, but where does it show an "attack" on other members,
this member is simply, informing with opinion and based on EXPERIENCE (something which you keep telling us), about heat mats and glass vivs etc,
however, you are attacking this member, as you do with all members thinking your a know it all
oh, btw, you speaking to someone now who knows a hell of a lot about computers
you do not have a stat as such in a computer, just something that gets a fan working, because if the fan failed to work, the computer would still overheat, and would NOT shut down because the stat says so unlike a thermostat on heatmat, unless components start melting, in which case then your computer would just stop working, and before you say the computer would be a fire risk, it is very very rare, that computer ctach fire due to overheating even when the fan fails,
just wanted to make that clear to you my egotistical fellow forum member
quote:
Originally posted by fuzzylumps
Just wondering what every ones problem is with heat mats in glass vivs. i have kept a gecko in a glass viv for years with a heat mat inside with no problems. heat mats do not get hot enough to crack glass. the only time i have ever had this happen was due to stupidity when i placed a glass viv on top of another with a heat bulb.
as for the plastic vivs the cross hairs are ment for wires to go through, this is what they are there for!! again we have kept reptiles in plastic vivs with the heat mat inside with no problems and the viv is still going strong with no warping. This would only happen with a faulty heat mat and this is proven from experience
we also never use thermostats and are snakes are very happy, so happy infact that we current have a gravid female
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| mikerichards |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 23:56:46
quote:
Originally posted by fuzzylumps
i dont currently have glass vivs as we have had to down size our collection. i am sure the snakes would not be mating if they were un happy and she was very receptive to the male as we saw them mate. And yes it was pure stupidity on my part putting it on top of the other viv but you do learn from your mistakes as i did in that case. By way of experience i mean i have never had a mat warp a viv not that i have had a faulty heat mat (incorectly worded on my part) and whoever you are rambling on about my house burning down do you suggest i get a stat for every appliance that emits heat just incase it should malfunction and over heat and set the house on fire?
in my opinion your comments are all negative and un helpful and i find them offensive. i thought the forum was meant to be informative and helpful not for attacking others. more helpful comments and advice would surely be better than all the negatives comment and may actually help people but god forbid any of you have any nice, helpful comments to make
Understood, however, you didnt ask for advice, you came here and attacked the advice that had been given to other members.
If you have something that is capable of producing in excess of 200 degrees, and is touching something combustible, then yes, i would advise you to stat it, after all, your boiler has a stat, your hot water tank (if you have one) is statted, your central heating is statted, your cooker is statted, your fridge is statted, you will even find a thermostat in your television and computer.
By way of experience, i have never been hit by a car, but i check both ways before crossing.
My comment about the whole house thing was based on my knowledge of someone in a shop serving a lady, her snake had been living at the shop for 3.5 months whilst her house was rebuilt due to a faulty heatmat, do i take that seriously??? I have 13 stats running at once. |
| fuzzylumps |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 23:46:04
i dont currently have glass vivs as we have had to down size our collection. i am sure the snakes would not be mating if they were un happy and she was very receptive to the male as we saw them mate. And yes it was pure stupidity on my part putting it on top of the other viv but you do learn from your mistakes as i did in that case. By way of experience i mean i have never had a mat warp a viv not that i have had a faulty heat mat (incorectly worded on my part) and whoever you are rambling on about my house burning down do you suggest i get a stat for every appliance that emits heat just incase it should malfunction and over heat and set the house on fire?
in my opinion your comments are all negative and un helpful and i find them offensive. i thought the forum was meant to be informative and helpful not for attacking others. more helpful comments and advice would surely be better than all the negatives comment and may actually help people but god forbid any of you have any nice, helpful comments to make
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| mikerichards |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 23:19:39
quote:
Originally posted by fuzzylumps
Just wondering what every ones problem is with heat mats in glass vivs. i have kept a gecko in a glass viv for years with a heat mat inside with no problems. heat mats do not get hot enough to crack glass.
Just because you are ok, doesnt mean it will stay that way. We dont advise it for the fun of it, there is genuine concern, just because you dont share that concern, doesnt mean its not there.
The only time i have ever had this happen was due to stupidity when i placed a glass viv on top of another with a heat bulb.
Correct, that was stupid.
as for the plastic vivs the cross hairs are ment for wires to go through, this is what they are there for!!I suppose you have proof that those holes are for heatmat cables and not for things like thermostat probes, thermometer cables, etc?
again we have kept reptiles in plastic vivs with the heat mat inside with no problems and the viv is still going strong with no warping. This would only happen with a faulty heat mat and this is proven from experience.
we also never use thermostats and are snakes are very happy, so happy infact that we current have a gravid female
This bit, this is quality top of the range stupidity, i admire your effort.
So you know from experience that a heatmat can go faulty, yet you refuse to pay a couple of extra quid for a stat that could potentially stop your animals from being burnt alive, your house/shop being burnt down, and potentially you being killed also, not to mention the other people in the building who you are responsible for.
For the record, having a gravid female just shows you know how to put one snake in the others enclosure. Its nothing special. |
| lotabob |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 23:17:32
I'm pretty sure that there has been talk of there been a risk putting heat mats underneath glass vivs but I've not seen anything about putting them inside. To everyone on this forum (mostly but we are working on it) your quite right though they don't ever get hot enough, we all use thermostats which would remove the risk of the mat getting too hot. Though it is true that the heavier an object on the mat the hotter the mat will get which is why a mat under a heavy glass viv without a stat is a bad idea. |
| Kehhlyr |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 23:17:11
I don't have an issue with heat mats in glass vivs either, so long as they are stat'd.
Using a mat without a stat IMO shows a careless (neglectful???) owner.
Having a gravid female doesn't necessarily mean it's 'happy'. If I raped someone and they fell pregnant, would they be happy?? |
| fuzzylumps |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 23:05:29
Just wondering what every ones problem is with heat mats in glass vivs. i have kept a gecko in a glass viv for years with a heat mat inside with no problems. heat mats do not get hot enough to crack glass. the only time i have ever had this happen was due to stupidity when i placed a glass viv on top of another with a heat bulb.
as for the plastic vivs the cross hairs are ment for wires to go through, this is what they are there for!! again we have kept reptiles in plastic vivs with the heat mat inside with no problems and the viv is still going strong with no warping. This would only happen with a faulty heat mat and this is proven from experience
we also never use thermostats and are snakes are very happy, so happy infact that we current have a gravid female |
| CentricMalteser |
Posted - 28/02/2011 : 11:16:55
There is a debate about about UV lighting,
some say you do need it, others say you don't
after reading several forums, I have a 2.0% UVB tube (max is 2.0% no higher) and I use this during day as got poor lighting in my room, due to way my house is facing
and turn it off in the evening as it sunsets, to gave day/night feel
i also been advise and I follow through this to avoid turning it on in the evening or at night to check on Bruge as this may distrubed day/ night routine |
| Estee Duvenage |
Posted - 28/02/2011 : 07:56:17
Thanx, will have a look at this info and read up
more on this matter.
 |
| lee2308 |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 18:20:01
quote:
Originally posted by Estee Duvenage
After explaining
all that is needed (heat,thermos,uv lights..) they seem content to
have a cold, sun deprived snake.
quote:
Originally posted by Estee Duvenage
I do agree. I was just referring to a matter today,
i had a customer come in to replace a bulb, she already
had a snake and whatever. I tried to explain to her that
heat and uv is more important then LIGHT.
Just out of interest you do know that corns and most snakes do not require uv so selling them uv lighting is just wasting money. |
| Estee Duvenage |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 17:20:29
Hey guys
Thanx for replies. I dont mind the warning against me, it was
given as i refused to sell with a snotty attitude. I will not
sell any animal that is not ready(too young ext), not healthy,
or sell an animal if i know the person is totally incompetent.
I will probably get plenty plenty more warnings !!!!!
(Dont think they are truly valid in this case anyway,
more to please the customer) My job is secure.
Luckily our South African SPCA services are pretty good,
they do regular spot checks on Pet Shops, and OH YES
THEY CLOSE THEM DOOOOOOOOOOWNNNNN...
You will not find a stinky shop, with half dying animals here.
Allot of people will close you down if they think something amiss.
Unfortunately that doesn't go for animals at homes. In bad
areas you will find scary things.
ANYWAY
Like i said my worries only go to those two snakes..
ANYBODY with comment on them? |
| n/a |
Posted - 26/02/2011 : 23:23:13
quote:
Originally posted by hillzi
quote:
Originally posted by TimClynes
quote:
Originally posted by gmac
im very impressed with peoples knowledge on South African employment Laws, im not really sure the same rules apply there that do here.
As it happens gmac they do, South Africa's low court system is roughly modeled around the UK.
What does this has anything to do with animal abuse?
Probably nothing at all, but I do know employment law, which is what I was responding to.
I do however abhor the mistreatment of any animal, and fail on a cellular level to understand how a cogent human being can deliberatly, or even inadvertantly, allow an animal trusted to his/her care to suffer |
| hillzi |
Posted - 26/02/2011 : 23:06:27
quote:
Originally posted by TimClynes
quote:
Originally posted by gmac
im very impressed with peoples knowledge on South African employment Laws, im not really sure the same rules apply there that do here.
As it happens gmac they do, South Africa's low court system is roughly modeled around the UK.
What does this has anything to do with animal abuse? |
| n/a |
Posted - 26/02/2011 : 22:54:55
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
The key word there is roughly though :/
South African justice can be a little liberal, but it follows the same system of case law as the Uk because in recent history it was a colony.
I may dare to suggest that I am reasonably well informed in this particular topic. |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 26/02/2011 : 22:13:41
The key word there is roughly though :/ |
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