| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| DutchCorns |
Posted - 02/02/2012 : 20:57:31
Hi folks,
We recently had the pleasure, after many sad years without reptiles, of taking over a young man's terrarium and corn snakes. Two adults and one juvenile in a very large terrarium, in which I have kept their original hides and added some desert plants and a much larger water bowl.
When we got them they appeared dehydrated, but otherwise in excellent condition. They've been used to living in the same tank for their whole lives-- the adults are between 5 and 6 years old and do most things in synch which makes me suspect they could even be from the same clutch, and the baby is one year old and in our opinion too small and delicate so we are worried about him.
They are on reptibark with hides, water, a warm and cooler end, rocks for effect, a few plants like an aloe and a sanseveria, branches to climb on, and a day and a night lamp.
All three snakes eat greedily every week (the adults eat 2 thawed mice each and the baby eats one thawed pinkie even though he is offered two, and is offered another one midway through the week which he also does not eat). They eat so well for us that the adults are usually already picking the mice up before I have completely put the snake in its bin and put the lid on.
Since we got them 5 months ago, the adults have each had two perfect sheds and the baby has had one.
Any tips on dealing with the little one would be appreciated. He just seems so SMALL! But he eats, he sheds, he is active enough and likes to come out and bask every other day or so, eyes clear and no skin blemishes or anything of the like. But he's a year old and I weighed him at 23 grams a few days ago. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| CentricMalteser85 |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 21:38:52
I replied to the whole thread, to give advice on everything, as a helping hand!
You should have stated that your experienced, because in my view and Im sure others would agree, an experienced keeper would not keep together adult corns they did not know the sex of for the problem of breeding and other issues and experienced keepers and even beginners would know not to house a baby hatchling with adults in the viv.
Big viv with much bigger snakes = stress as it's open environment in size comparison.
And I am opinionated which I dont take offence too and I say it as it is, sorry I dont do it with a gentle blanket.
But heres the advic straight up
Change the feeding patterns for all snakes otherwise they will get ill health, overweight and potentially die
Get a new home for the baby corn appropiately sized ie a RUB or use a 2ft or 3ft viv but with lots of hides and decor for them.
Experience should also tell you snakes grow at different paces to each other so whereas one hatchling may shed ona monthly basis, another may shed on a 6 weekly basis.
And if you dont keepfeeding records and shedding records and weight records, might be worthwhile to do so.
quote:
Originally posted by DutchCorns
Perhaps I should have stated what? That the snakes have been together for years was indeed mentioned. Anyway, I came on here to ask others' opinions about whether I should be concerned about the size of one snake. Then I personally thought that a friendly conversation had ensued. As the conversation is suddenly and to my mind inexplicably no longer friendly and my original question has indeed been answered, I will respectfully bugger off.
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| Katie.Dublin |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 19:34:43
Don't worry nobody is trying to be unfriendly! Just opinionated perhaps. Welcome to the forum anyways |
| DutchCorns |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 19:32:48
Perhaps I should have stated what? That the snakes have been together for years was indeed mentioned. Anyway, I came on here to ask others' opinions about whether I should be concerned about the size of one snake. Then I personally thought that a friendly conversation had ensued. As the conversation is suddenly and to my mind inexplicably no longer friendly and my original question has indeed been answered, I will respectfully bugger off. |
| Katie.Dublin |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 19:32:39
Would kinda be inclined to stick with Centric on this one! I have two adult females co-habiting so i'm not completely against it... i would definitely stick the little one in another house though. Vivs are obviously really expensive but RUBs can be got relatively cheap! As for feeding. My 4yr olds are on one big/jumbo mouse every 10 days or two weeks. Two mice a week seems a hell of a lot. |
| CentricMalteser85 |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 19:06:46
Perhaps you should have stated this
If you were raised by a herp then you should know the common sense answers yourself.
And many will agree, that adult snakes eating 2 mice each week - every 7 days is too much and they will get obese!
Also if you leave opposite sexes together in the same tank, they will breed
Leaving the small one with the larger ones will do harm more than good
Also if two snakes are "cramming" together under one hide, this wuld suggest competition for that spot.
You say you're experienced but you are aksing questions that in my view have a pretty straight forward answer as I have outlined
quote:
Originally posted by DutchCorns
Hi again. I'm not a beginner, for the record; I was raised by a herpetologist and have had many snakes over the decades. The adults in my current group are in fabulous shape and we'll just keep on as we are. Again, it's the little one's seeming undersize that worries us. He does eat every single week without hesitation, and then if we see him out and about and five days or so have passed we often put him in his bin with a pinkie but those he doesn't eat so I guess we'll stop doing that. His shed was perfect. So should we maybe just assume he's unusually delicate and leave it at that, or is there some way to build him up a bit?
As for the other two eating him, in this case (and only this case) we've decided they almost certainly won't. They ignore him completely, and yes I know this could change but they're SO thawed-mouse fixated I don't think they even think of anything else as potential food. I set the bins out where they can see them, with the mice in, and the snakes come to the glass and wait for me to open the vivarium and pick them up. They eat, I put them back.
The info on here I did of course already know; as I said, not a beginner. The vivarium measures 120 cm long, 40 deep, and 70 tall. I've provided enough environmental features that they can go about checking stuff out; Omicron is particularly inquisitive about his surroundings. Most of the contents of the terrarium came with them, the rest they've been used to since September. As I said they are on Reptibark, cleaned out weekly while they eat, and have a few plants and several hides, and as described above also spots (one day, one night) and under-vivarium heating mats. Plenty of water. They like to look out the window the tank is next to. The two adults insist on cramming in together into the really big hide, unless one is out basking or watching us go about life (they seem to really like to watch the dog), although Omicron will occasionally take a break from Moo by going into the Arabic pot or under the woodpile. The little guy, Albacore, spurns the hides and has created a space for himself under the water dish; if he's not there he's basking in the aloe or on top of the the wood-full-of-holes hide. He reacts to any approach to the vivarium by being watchful but he doesn't move away; he seems very relaxed to me. The other two are downright goofy, they're so relaxed and oddly (for a snake) personable.
So, given he's tiny and delicate but also sheds well, eats readily, etc., and has great color, should be worried about him or not, and if yes, what's the best approach? I do not think a vet is called for but should that change the closest one who does reptiles is several towns away. Oh, forgot to mention, they do have reptile-specific vitamin drops in their water as well.
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| DutchCorns |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 18:32:17
OK. Well, these two have been together for years without reproducing, but should they do so I will thereafter take steps to make sure it doesn't happen too often (that'd be separation, of course). I am glad the little one is the boy and thus out of danger regarding breeding too early. |
| kdlang |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 18:26:39
Corn do not have to be brumated in order to successfully mate. You only have to read the number of threads of people who have had unexpected clutches because they put a male and female in together. One of my males hasn't been brumated and he is definitely in the mood. The others are starting to show signs of breeding season having started but aren't quite so active yet. I have to say that my males are seperate from the females so it isnt the scent of them that has encouraged this behaviour either.
If I remember rightly from a previous post on scale counting it isn't totally accurate. Most corns fall in the region of inconclusive i think. I havent ever tried it with mine although I have been tempted. I must look into it at some point and have a go |
| DutchCorns |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 18:04:09
Since people seem to be posting what other pets they have, I'll add that in addition to the three snakes we have a 1 1/2 year old orange tabby cat named Vincent, and 8-month-old dog Ruben (half Vizsla, 1/4 husky, 1/4 Fila Brasilero) and an aquarium containing two bettas (don't worry, only one is male!), 5 neon tetras and 5 red tetras, one albino catfish, two mollies, one fire shrimp, and two different algae-eating snails. |
| DutchCorns |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 17:55:49
Just found a reference to the scale-counting method for getting a "likely" idea of the sex. How much credence should I give to this method? I luckily have complete shed skins on hand and have now done that count, and if there's much to it scientifically it seems we did have them backwards and that therefore Omicron is *probably* a girl and Moo is *probably* a boy. Again, it is the little one that is confirmed male by a vet. The other two are, I repeat, between 5 and 6 years old and about 140/150 cm long (thus 4.6 and 4.9 feet respectively)(Moo is bigger than Omicron). |
| DutchCorns |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 17:48:55
Thanks for your input. The little one is the confirmed male, though, luckily. Anyway, from everything I have been avidly reading on the subject they have to go through a brumation period to really get in the mood and I am not planning one. If they DO decide to breed, which seems very unlikely, we'll follow the established guidelines and incubate the eggs, but given that they won't be brumated, the literature seems to indicate that it'd be very unusual to see such activity. |
| kdlang |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 17:02:18
You might not plan to breed them but if you have got different sexes in there then they will breed whether you like it or not and if your little one is female then it will be extremely dangerous for her to breed when she is too small |
| DutchCorns |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 16:30:20
By the way, I keep saying "he" and "she"... well, the kid we got them from said the baby had been confirmed male by a vet, but for the other two we have just arbitrarily assigned sexes based on a wildly inaccurate nebulous hunch. We've decided that Moo is a girl and Omicron is a boy, but that could be backwards or they could be both boys or both girls. We do not intend to try to breed them so it isn't worth stressing them with a probe-- nor the several-towns train trip to the rep vet. |
| DutchCorns |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 14:06:31
That sound like a plan! I'll see about whether we need to separate to do that-- the other snakes are accustomed to being taken out at fairly random intervals for just plain handling (much to the delight of my seven-year-old son), so they might not get excited, we'll see. I am VERY reassured by your account. There really just doesn't seem to be anything wrong with him except sheer small size. Today is Friday, and so every time we approach the tank the adults stick their heads out and look at us-- tomorrow is mice day. Tomorrow, if it goes like always so far, little Albacore will present himself as well and hang out in the aloe until he sees his bin, then get excited. Meanwhile he's under the water dish; since we figured out he has been digging himself in there, we just always leave a small hollow space and a fingertip-wide "tunnel" when we change their water. Anyway, I'll see if we can get him working with that and if he doesn't take to it readily or if the others get antsy or anything we'll whip out the little terrarium that's languishing in the shed. I'll keep you folks posted. |
| tordyjo |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 13:54:28
i bought a female last year who when i bought her weighed 20g and had been fed a maintenance diet of 1 pinky a week. according to the shop she hatched sept 2010 and we bought her end may 2011 at nearly 9 months age. I increased her feeds to 1 pinky every 5 days and very quickly she moved onto 2 pinkys every 5 days and put the weight on. Maybe just keep the feeds spaced to every 5 days rather than every 7. May be easier if you she's fed separately from the older snakes - they may think its their feed time too. |
| DutchCorns |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 13:38:16
Well, we are of course considering this, but given that he's now in the tank and under the conditions he's lived in since he was a tiny baby, it seems quite a bit of upheaval for him without seeming necessary-- he eats, he sheds, he hangs out, he acts relaxed. We do know exactly what he eats and what he excretes (for the latter, he has a spot he uses and the resulting pile is of course much smaller than those produced by the other snakes, so we know it's his). We're on the fence about changing his housing-- and that's on opposite sides of the fence, at that, so we'll see. The only thing that concerns us is his size and we don't even know if that is genuinely a reason for concern; he's ostensibly a year old this month, but it's also possible the teenager we got these guys from was wrong about that and that he's younger. Does his size sound like a cause for concern to you? Given, that is, that he eats like clockwork and excretes normal-looking waste regularly and is as active as the adults without being more so and is a good color and had an excellent shed. |
| kdlang |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 13:25:19
It does sound like you have had alot of experience. Having said that, the fact that you are actually having concerns about the health of the smaller one indicates that something needs to change. Personally I would seperate the smaller one. Give him his own enclosure where it is easier to monitor his feeding and defacating routines. You cannot be sure whether it is the cohabitting with much larger corns that is the reason for his failure to thrive or not so i think eliminating it is a good course of action.
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| DutchCorns |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 11:57:58
Thanks! |
| Okeetee Mick |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 09:53:03
Welcome to the forum |
| DutchCorns |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 08:53:31
Hi again. I'm not a beginner, for the record; I was raised by a herpetologist and have had many snakes over the decades. The adults in my current group are in fabulous shape and we'll just keep on as we are. Again, it's the little one's seeming undersize that worries us. He does eat every single week without hesitation, and then if we see him out and about and five days or so have passed we often put him in his bin with a pinkie but those he doesn't eat so I guess we'll stop doing that. His shed was perfect. So should we maybe just assume he's unusually delicate and leave it at that, or is there some way to build him up a bit?
As for the other two eating him, in this case (and only this case) we've decided they almost certainly won't. They ignore him completely, and yes I know this could change but they're SO thawed-mouse fixated I don't think they even think of anything else as potential food. I set the bins out where they can see them, with the mice in, and the snakes come to the glass and wait for me to open the vivarium and pick them up. They eat, I put them back.
The info on here I did of course already know; as I said, not a beginner. The vivarium measures 120 cm long, 40 deep, and 70 tall. I've provided enough environmental features that they can go about checking stuff out; Omicron is particularly inquisitive about his surroundings. Most of the contents of the terrarium came with them, the rest they've been used to since September. As I said they are on Reptibark, cleaned out weekly while they eat, and have a few plants and several hides, and as described above also spots (one day, one night) and under-vivarium heating mats. Plenty of water. They like to look out the window the tank is next to. The two adults insist on cramming in together into the really big hide, unless one is out basking or watching us go about life (they seem to really like to watch the dog), although Omicron will occasionally take a break from Moo by going into the Arabic pot or under the woodpile. The little guy, Albacore, spurns the hides and has created a space for himself under the water dish; if he's not there he's basking in the aloe or on top of the the wood-full-of-holes hide. He reacts to any approach to the vivarium by being watchful but he doesn't move away; he seems very relaxed to me. The other two are downright goofy, they're so relaxed and oddly (for a snake) personable.
So, given he's tiny and delicate but also sheds well, eats readily, etc., and has great color, should be worried about him or not, and if yes, what's the best approach? I do not think a vet is called for but should that change the closest one who does reptiles is several towns away. Oh, forgot to mention, they do have reptile-specific vitamin drops in their water as well.
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| tordyjo |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 07:19:41
hi there, some great advice above |
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