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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
 Posted - 26/09/2013 : 22:46:56
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You should all know my friends snake that I've asked about before. I thought it was an Amber(and still stand by that). However! My friend took this little one to a shop today to be sexed as she wasn't sure what gender and did want to breed it originally. It's turns out it's a girl but the shop also told her it was a BUTTER because it was bred from their BUTTERS which are all from GOLDDUST lines!!!!
They also told her that all butters came from golddust lines... Apparently.
I messaged saying(my exact words!);
"Hiya, my friend came in today to have a corn snake sexed and was told that she was a butter when she is very clearly an Amber. She was also told that the butters all come from Golddust genes which is entirely wrong since Butters have been around a lot longer than Golddust. It's more likely that Golddust came from Butter genes not the other way round.
I'll attach pictures of the snake in question if you'd like to see for yourself but I OWN a butter so know what one looks like. They lack the melanin and have ruby red eyes.
Thanks."
And they responded with;
"You will find i said that it is a butter as we bred it from our adults which are all golddust line. So yes our butters do come from our golddust.
We also own several butters, including motleys and stripes"
So I included pictures and said;
"It is not a butter though.... It is an Amber. Butters lack black which this one does not.
This is not a butter. I can tell you that straight out. This is an Amber, maybe a Golddust though I'm not totally convinced, which is a Hypo Caramel. Butters are Caramel Amel.
You also know that Golddust are hybrids too, right? So if she was bred from your Golddust and sold as a Butter Corn Snake then you have mi-sold her as A. She's not a butter and B. She's a hybrid.
I can show you a picture of my butter if you'd like."
They replied with;
"Golddust is ultramel x caramel
butter is amel x caramel amber is caramel x hypo. So no not mis sold. It definately wasnt an amber baby. It may well look to you an amber its something we will have to agree to disagree on. No need to show me pictures as already stated we have several butters and golddusts in our collection
Many thanks"
SO! ID this girl once and for all please! These are the only three pictures I have right now but can get ventral pictures and everything and even baby pictures later tonight or tomorrow.
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Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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SilverWings
Yearling
United Kingdom
740 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2013 : 23:02:52
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| Not butter, that's for sure. If I remember rightly she has yellowed checkers, buuut so does my Luna, I'm not sure if she's caramel or amber so for now I'm going with caramel until I can prove her out with a hypo male. The golddust on iansviv has black checkers on its belly. I'd say go for at least caramel, maybe amber? |
2.2.3 Corn snakes; Red, Rosie, Liana, Checkers, Luna, Diego, Snowman
1.0 Taiwanese Beauty Snake; Aleron
1.0 Green Anoles; Doug
1.0 Greyhound; Lee |
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2013 : 23:05:51
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Yes she has yellow checkers and always has. I'll ask for baby pictures of her now  |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2013 : 23:14:20
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Vental.
Baby pictures.... Yeah, totally not an Amber/Caramel baby.....
As she grew up.
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Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
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ScaryVonHayleystine
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1773 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2013 : 23:56:55
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| not butter, but im going to go with amber based on baby pic as im sure baby caramels are a lot darker. |
Albino Addiction ... <3
0.1.0 - Creamsicle Cornsnake (Mo)
1.0.0 - Bubblegum Snow Corn (Gabriel)
1.0.0 - Lavendar 100% Het Hypo Corn (Ezra)
1.0.0 - Bairds Rat Snake (Lazarus)
0.0.1 - Crested Gecko (Pan) |
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2013 : 09:27:21
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| Thank-you. I told her that no matter how much they call it a butter, it's not! It is not a butter just because it apparently came from two butters! I told her the visual genes are the ones that count not the hets. Just because she's Amber het Amel doesn't make her butter because she carries the Amel and Caramel genes. What counts are the visual genes which, in this case, are the Caramel and Hypo. |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
Edited by - AcidicAngel on 27/09/2013 09:27:41 |
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2013 : 10:02:19
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They clearly don't know what a butter is if they are trying to claim that!! As you - completely correctly - pointed out, butters have no melanin so have red eyes and no black. Butters are amel + caramel NOT amel x caramel... but then you know that, it's the shop that doesn't :P What a bunch of idiots they are!
As for Amber or caramel I don't know much about caramel bellies - but I would have expected more black for a caramel so would go with amber personally. Although as you also pointed out, if she was bred from 2 gold dusts then maybe she's a gold dust?! I see Eeji had moved gold dust from the hybrids to the triple trait section and just mentions that "ultra was originally obtained as a result of interspecific hybrid breeding".
Sooooooooo bearing all that in mind...
I'm plumping for gold dust lol  |
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Edited by - smart bunny on 27/09/2013 10:07:59 |
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Moppet
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3315 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2013 : 17:02:55
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| Clearly not a butter... They obviously don't understand morphs but think that they do. |
2.4.0 Corn snakes
1.0.0 horse
0.1.0 Golden retriever
1.4.0 Guinea pigs |
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marc_sg
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1504 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2013 : 17:35:26
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| I mite be wrong ive watched to see how this thread went. As i said i might be wrong but isnt hypo reduced black aswells around the saddles. And his got black around the saddles. Which counts out butter false stop. But id be interest in qhat happens with the hypo to the caramel gene |
0.1.0 Amels (sid) 1.0.0 carolina stripe (simon)0.1.0 ghost (silva) 1.1.0 diffused/bloodreds (scarlet and samson)
1.0 staffy x beagle
soon to have female pin royal
R.I.P SHELLY
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Edited by - marc_sg on 27/09/2013 19:15:04 |
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mjpeters
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1539 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2013 : 20:20:03
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This is my Golddust-
tummy
head,face
under artificial light
and natural light.
hope this helps! for my part I think your snake looks like a Really good Golddust
I also agree with where they have been placed on Ians viv.-by this I mean to say that the 'ultra'gene does not mean that the snake is an F1 hybrid.I have a fair few snakes that have and express this gene and not one of them has a parent/grandparent/great grandparent/great great-(you see where I'm going with this)that was anything other than a Cornsnake.
I guess the question is;why was this snake purchased?and if its not whats wanted-what are you going to do with it?
If breeding was my 'thing' then I would not hesitate to use a Golddust like mine-she's big,(some folks say corns are getting smaller)healthy,even tempered and safely had a clutch of eggs (I killed them as the previous folks kept her with a MBK!!!
good luck with this cracking snake. |
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Coal
Hatchling
449 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2013 : 20:27:50
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| Looks like a golddust to me to (not that I'm anywhere near as knowledgeable as some other people that have answered lol), and as mjpeters said, although the ultramel gene does originate from hybrids, your friend's snake is probably 99.99% corn snake by DNA and can still sensibly called a corn snake. It's a beauty in any case, and the silly sellers obviously didn't have a clue lol. |
'Lovecraft' - CB12 male amel
'Sarnath' - CB13 male KSB (anery, het. albino) |
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2013 : 20:35:57
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| It looks like a stunning gold dust to me. Almost makes me cry seeing her, she's spitting image of a snake I came across couple of times, and never was allowed to buy. Your friend's really lucky to have her, such a beautiful girl. |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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ScaryVonHayleystine
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1773 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2013 : 22:03:02
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| ooh i may stand corrected! going by the other photos looks golddust :o |
Albino Addiction ... <3
0.1.0 - Creamsicle Cornsnake (Mo)
1.0.0 - Bubblegum Snow Corn (Gabriel)
1.0.0 - Lavendar 100% Het Hypo Corn (Ezra)
1.0.0 - Bairds Rat Snake (Lazarus)
0.0.1 - Crested Gecko (Pan) |
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Redware
Hatchling
United Kingdom
412 Posts |
Posted - 28/09/2013 : 12:49:06
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Gold dust for me. Quite a lot of black left in the saddles for amber (but i wouldn't totally rule it out), and there is no way that is a butter. Caramels have the fully black checker board ventral so not a straight caramel either.
Here is Willows belly (old shot) for reference.
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Corns: 1.2.0 Caramel Tessera Het Stripe ph lots (Oak) Caramel (Willow) Caramel Stripe Het Amel (Juniper)
Royals: 1:1:0 Lesser Pastel (Bismuth) Cinna Spin (Indium) |
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oakleyman18
Yearling
828 Posts |
Posted - 28/09/2013 : 18:17:08
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Well you're 100% correct to say that's not a Butter..
Also correct to say that Butters- when from Golddust lines- are also a form of hybrid. Some people just don't label appropriately. But just because they don't have the ulta gene, doesn't make them any less hybrid. Ultra isn't itself a hybrid gene, but it was from hybrid lines. So yes- if this is from Golddust lines- there's some hybrid in there. Perhaps not a lot, but some.
For me this baby still looks Amber. Patterning and colouring as a baby especially shows to me. Redware is right, Caramel should have black checkers, as should Golddust, and to me the original pictures are slightly browned out, which would indicate the Hypo in the equation.
The pet shop, I'm afraid, is awful :P And wrong... You have the moral highground! :D |
Oscar Morrell
0.1.0. Tessera het Caramel Diffused Hypo ph Amel Anery CB'12 "Cassi", 0.1.0. Diffused Powder CB'12 "Ruby"
0.1.0. Normal Stripe, het Hypo, Amel, Lavender CB'11 "Amber", 1.0.0. Lavender Stripe het Diffused Anery Amel Hypo CB'11 "Pluto"
1.0.0. Hypo Opal Ph Stripe CB'12 "Hops", 1.0.0. Caramel Stripe het Amel CB'08 "Jasper", 1.0.0. Opal Stripe het Anery CB'09 "Topaz"
0.1.0. Amel Stripe het Caramel CB'09 "Poppy", 0.1.0. Tessera het Amel Lavender Stripe ph Diffused Hypo Anery CB'12 "Amethyst" |
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mjpeters
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1539 Posts |
Posted - 28/09/2013 : 22:06:05
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Soooo,If golddust have BLACK chequers what is my big girl Sunni?
Totaly 100% agree pet shop is wrong.
pet shops ARE wrong  |
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smart bunny
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5091 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2013 : 07:48:52
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| Not to mention that if they think she's a butter.... they may be totally wrong about the parents being gold dust/butters or whatever they think they are lol :P |
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Razee
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2525 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2013 : 09:37:45
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| Mj, gold dusts can and do have yellow belly chequers, the ultra/ultramel gene works similar way as hypo... :-) |
0.1.0 late CB10 Carolina corn snake - Bazilishka
1.0.0 CB11 Abbots Okeetee- Little Twiddler
1.0.0 CB11 Hypo corn- Sebastianek
1.0.0. CB14 Butter Motley - Squidwood
0.0.2 CB18 normal/ Okeetee yearlings Bunny and Lalalishka
0.0.1 hognose
0.1.0 stable cat
0.1.0 house cat |
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mjpeters
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1539 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2013 : 11:49:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Razee
Mj, gold dusts can and do have yellow belly chequers, the ultra/ultramel gene works similar way as hypo... :-)
cheers m'dear.I just lurve my sunni -AA if your girl is anything like mine temperment wise,I would never part with her  |
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rubi
Hatchling
United Kingdom
374 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2013 : 20:03:28
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| ok so i know nothing about morphs so couldnt say what this one is but even i know its not a butter lol |
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AcidicAngel
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1212 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2013 : 10:41:16
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Sorry for the late reply everyone! Thank-you! The shop still refuses to know that this is not a butter as they still say "It was a butter baby!"
As for the person who asked what she was going to do with her, she's keeping her She likes her no matter what she is. Her friend bought her for her birthday and said "We've bought you a butter baby!!!" and she instantly knew it wasn't butter but she took it in for sexing and the shop said it was a butter! She's had her a while now and she loves her no matter what |
Corn Snakes.
1.0 Butter - Cereus.
1.0 Caramel Stripe het Amel - Vladimir.
0.1 Normal het Amel, Caramel, Hypo - Amara.
0.1 Masque het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, Lavender, Stripe - Aurelia.
1.0 Masque Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused, Hypo, lavender, Stripe - Orion.
Leopard Gecko's.
Too many to list!!
Rat Snake.
1.0 Yellow Rat Snake - Leviathan(Levi)
Western Hognoses
1.0 Normal 50% poss het Frosted(Dutch Hypo, Caramel) - Thorne.
0.1 Frosted - Rose.
1.0 Anaconda het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Titan.
0.1 Normal het Snow(Amel, Anery) - Nyx.
R.I.P Pandora & Sakana, entwined in my heart forever my darlings. |
Edited by - AcidicAngel on 02/10/2013 10:42:14 |
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Solve This Once And For All! Please!
