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SilverWings
Yearling
United Kingdom
740 Posts |
 Posted - 16/03/2013 : 17:15:39
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So, yesterday was feeding day for my two, I dutifully defrosted their mice, made sure they were warm enough, and separated the snakes. Diego went into the rub, Luna stayed in the viv since I had been told she was slightly fussier. Dangled the mouse for Diego, he struck, coiled, unhinged his jaw, swallowed the head...then spat it back out again! I expected him to just rearrange and try again, but instead, he totally ignored it, seemingly intent on escaping the rub.
Luna, on the other hand, gulped hers right down and dutifully went to rest in her hide. I popped Diego in the tank to settle down, but he batted round the viv a bit, rubbing his face on just about everything he could. I tried the mouse again in the viv but he just wasn't interested (Luna certainly was, as soon as the mouse made an appearance she poked her head out and started frantically flicking her tongue XD). I'm not too concerned, as I've mentioned Diego is a bit fat, and the way he's behaving I suspect he may be going to shed soon...I just found it odd that he started to eat then spat it out again! |
2.2.3 Corn snakes; Red, Rosie, Liana, Checkers, Luna, Diego, Snowman
1.0 Taiwanese Beauty Snake; Aleron
1.0 Green Anoles; Doug
1.0 Greyhound; Lee |
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ScalySituation
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5292 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2013 : 17:41:15
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| Its not uncommon for them to not eat when housed together as well |
1.0.0 Butter motley corn (Sheldon)
0.1.0 Caramel Corn (Maggie)
0.1.0 Caramel motley corn (Echo)
1.0.0 Cat (Angus)
1 mealworm colony
RIP Skye x
Sleep well Sonny, Mummy loves you xx
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Hissyfit
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2214 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2013 : 17:44:09
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| I've had this a couple of times when the snakes were just about to go into shed. |
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Nasicus
Egg
United Kingdom
74 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2013 : 18:22:31
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| He's probably in the mood for mating, not food. |
Corns:
0.1.0 Snow - Lister
0.1.0 Amel - Psiren
0.1.0 Fire - Cat
1.0.0 Normal - Rimmer
1.0.0 Kinked Butter - Kryten
Hognoses:
1.0.0 Greenphase - Scout
1.0.0 Greenphase - Pyro
0.1.0 Normal - Rocket
Beardie:
1.0.0 Alduin |
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SilverWings
Yearling
United Kingdom
740 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2013 : 19:53:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Nasicus
He's probably in the mood for mating, not food.
Haha, too true, that could well be a possibility XD |
2.2.3 Corn snakes; Red, Rosie, Liana, Checkers, Luna, Diego, Snowman
1.0 Taiwanese Beauty Snake; Aleron
1.0 Green Anoles; Doug
1.0 Greyhound; Lee |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2013 : 20:52:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Nasicus
He's probably in the mood for mating, not food.
It certainly sounds as though that could be the case Silverwings. I'm assuming you're planning on breeding them?
I am a bit worried that you put the mouse back in the viv with Diego, after he didn't eat it. That could cause problems and violence between them. You said yourself that Luna was immediately interested in it. I would suggest that if he doesn't eat again you just let him go hungry!
How long have you had them?
Xxx
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SilverWings
Yearling
United Kingdom
740 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2013 : 21:48:20
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| Don't worry, the mouse was in there for maybe 5 minutes at most, just long enough to ascertain he definitely wasn't interested. Luna didn't even come out of the hide (still hasn't, actually, she's quite content to sleep for a bit). I've had them for a little over a week, hence not being too concerned about him not eating. They were fed successfully a few days before I got them. |
2.2.3 Corn snakes; Red, Rosie, Liana, Checkers, Luna, Diego, Snowman
1.0 Taiwanese Beauty Snake; Aleron
1.0 Green Anoles; Doug
1.0 Greyhound; Lee |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 10:18:52
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Are you planning on breeding them Silverwings? If so, are they the right age and weight, particularly the female?
I'm not sure how much you might have researched co-habiting snakes and know there is a sticky on here about it.....but it is very long and shows what a hot topic it is. May I suggest you read this http://www.masondixonreptiles.com/Cohabitation.html so you can be fully aware of the implications of keeping them together. It can be done and is done, by experienced keepers and never with differing sexes. The choice is yours at the end of the day and will be respected.....but please, for Luna and Diego's sakes, go into this with your eyes open to the dangers.
Xxx
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SilverWings
Yearling
United Kingdom
740 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 18:44:20
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| No, I'm not planning to breed them. They are both several years old, Diego is around 4 foot long, Luna is between 3.5 and 4. Both are overweight, Luna only a little, Diego very much so, so Diego especially is on a bit of a diet. I do know the risks of housing together, but these guys have lived for years together with no problems. I'm still keeping a close eye on them, and have a rub setup in case I do need to split them, but considering their size and weight, I would actually be impressed if one managed to eat the other. They have also never bred, the previous owner never brumated them over the winter and they never seemed to realise it was breeding season. Luna has never laid any eggs. If they do breed, the eggs will be frozen then binned, because I don't currently have the time to invest in hatching lots of little corn snakes, and demand in my area isn't particularly high anyway. Both are healthy, and show no signs of stress. They have several hides in both the hot and cold ends, and never try to climb in to the same one, so I don't think there's any issue with them fighting over the best spot. I also have a low powered heat lamp and basking spot on top of one of the hides that covers an area large enough for both the snakes to sit on (although it's more to raise the ambient air temperature, because there are so mnay hides the heat mat struggles to bring the viv up to a comfortable temperature by itself). The heat mat has a mat stat, the lamp has a thermometer close by so I can visually monitor the air temperature. They also get plenty of exercise outside of the viv, so they get time away from each other. I know you're only looking out for the snakes Kellog, and it's appreciated, but honestly, I believe they're fine for now. If I have the slightest doubt, they'll be separated right away ;) |
2.2.3 Corn snakes; Red, Rosie, Liana, Checkers, Luna, Diego, Snowman
1.0 Taiwanese Beauty Snake; Aleron
1.0 Green Anoles; Doug
1.0 Greyhound; Lee |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
Posted - 19/03/2013 : 02:08:49
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Thanks for acknowledging that I am only looking out for Luna and Diego, Silverwings....they are what is most important to me.
At least they are of a sensible size, particularly Luna. It means if she did become gravid there would be less risk to her. I know it must seem strange to you, me being so concerned when they've lived all this time together without any problems and without them breeding....but that can change for no reason at all and my question is always 'Is it worth the risk?'.
I know they haven't bred yet, but that doesn't mean that they haven't mated and probably on numerous occasions. Not every mating ends up with the female gravid, even with planned matings and a number of confirmed 'locks' females can still not be impregnated. But that doesn't mean that she isn't going through the trauma of mating and that it won't happen....and it only takes the once for it to be a serious issue.
You say that if they do breed then you will dispose of the eggs, but have you considered the risks to Luna of these unwanted eggs, such as egg-binding? This can lead to expensive vet bills and even death.
As I mentioned, snakes behaviour and personality can change in a blink of an eyelid, not only co-habited snakes but also those kept by themselves. I know of a situation where a snake owner had been co-habiting his snakes for years. This owner had been very pro co-habiting and had argued for it. As an experiment he separated them and one went off its food and seemed 'unhappy'. Once they were put back together things returned to normal. This was because they had become institutionalised and used to being together, which is not necessarily a good thing as you'll see. Two years later he was forced to separate them as one started to bite and constrict the other for no reason. Luckily he saw what was happening and managed to separate them, although one snake was left injured. They now live in their own vivs and, after a period of adjustment, he noticed a change in their personalities and, one in particular, thriving better. He now wishes he had persisted when he had first separated them.
You say that neither of them show any signs of stress, but can you be sure? Experienced keepers know the signs of stress with snakes and also know that by the time they have picked up on these signs then that stress has probably been going on for a while. Stress in reptiles can be lethal, and the best way to prevent it is to house your animals in ideal conditions. In the case of snakes, their natural history and native habits seem to indicate that a solitary existence is preferred. To force them to live together is to go against nature and to create a stress that wouldn't be there were they housed alone.
It does sound as though you are providing the best environment you feel they need, with the space, hides, heat, light, etc....as well as handling them and giving them attention and time separately. There is no doubt that you care about them greatly and if you feel happy about continuing to keep them together then I respect that. All I'm asking is that you once again consider the dangers and ask yourself whether it really is worth the risk, for their sakes.
Xxx
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2013 : 14:32:27
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quote:
Originally posted by SilverWings
Don't worry, the mouse was in there for maybe 5 minutes at most, just long enough to ascertain he definitely wasn't interested. Luna didn't even come out of the hide (still hasn't, actually, she's quite content to sleep for a bit). I've had them for a little over a week, hence not being too concerned about him not eating. They were fed successfully a few days before I got them.
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5 mins is more than enough time or for something to go wrong. Just the smell linger on a snake if it has coils can cause another to bite. After feeding or when a mouse has been near by, you want a good 30 mins of them not together I would say.
As a newbie to the hobby and as I have said before, I would seriously separate them until you know more at the very least. I'm not trying to be an ass but very few people co-hab and even fewer people I would trust to co-hab successfully. The fact is, you don't know if they have lived together successfully for those years, your going on what the previous owner has told you which could be a load of garbage and if you don't know the signs of stress which can be very subtle, then your not going to know anything is wrong.
A separate setup will cost you like £80. Maybe not even that if you look at a good deal of which you will need anyway if you haven't got since you cohab incase something goes wrong, vet trips ect.
A vet to just even look at my snake cost me £20. An x ray to see if any eggs are blocked was going to be £80. Transport to a specialist which there is very few of and an operation I'm gonna guess at over £100. Of course they vary by vets but in any case if something goes wrong, its not going to be cheap. And of course, you still have to pay he vet if your snake dies on the op table.
You may think I am being harsh and blunt but really, until you know the snakes and their behaviours more, your playing a dangerous game.
They can eat and spit back out sometimes if they are preoccupied with other stuff or if they are nervous snakes and you catch them eating, they spit back out so they can make a get away because running away or doing the loving on a full stomach is not good :P |
  
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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Foxtrotsierra
Hatchling
United Kingdom
485 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2013 : 15:04:03
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I am very new to all this, but without being able to help on any other part of it, I do know that there are some very good deals on separate setups for grown corns out there. I priced one up (all inclusive) at £84 the other day using Amazon, 888Reptiles and Pets at Home. I know it might seem dear on the surface, but with the other side being vets bills etc, it might be the best £84 you spend looking ahead.
I hope that everything goes well with regards to their welfare, Kellog (and many others) have been a godsend to me the past few weeks and I have found that everyone on here is so generous with their time and advice, it would be perhaps a little easier given that Sta~ple has pointed out how much vets bills could be. I had to prove to my husband that if I was getting an exotic pet, we could afford any vets bills. You can also get your pets insured, I am not sure how, but if you give paulie78 a shout he will be able to point you in the right direction. Hope Diego and Luna keep well  |
0.1.0 Snow - Cathy (digesting, waiting for her photo op)
0.1.0 Carolina - Delilah
0.1.0 King Charles Cavalier - Emily
0.1.0 St Bernard - Pooch
0.1.0 Manx Cat - Maggie
0.0.1 HUGE tropical fish tank + residents
1.0.0 Husband (thinks I am insane)
3.2.0 Children (think I am cool!)
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Silly snakey
