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CentricMalteser
Banned
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
 Posted - 26/02/2011 : 12:26:46
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Heyg uys and girls
just a few snaps of Bruge eating one of two pinkies today
Hope you all like |
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Invalid User
Account Deactivated
United Kingdom
0 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2011 : 12:36:43
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Nice pics.
How often are you feeding? I'm sure you said you only fed him 3 days ago? |
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kdlang
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3556 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2011 : 12:49:55
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| He is a gorgeous snake. It is recommended that you leave a new snake alone for at least a week to settle in before handling and feeding though. You should just change it's water daily and spot check, straightening the substrate to introduce your smell to the new snake. That way snakie can get used to all the new smells, sounds and surroundings without getting stressed. |
4.1.0 corns - Izzy (Carolina) Alice (Amel) Peanut (Butter Motley) Swayze (Ghost) Carmellia (Butter Motley)
0.1.0 cat - Kizzy
1.0.0 Dog - Dobbie
Location - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
www.support-dogs.org.uk |
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CentricMalteser
Banned
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2011 : 20:44:52
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i have decided based on opinions of those on here
based on opinions of those on other forums
speaking to a reptile specialist who has a hell of lof experience
and other a couple of other good mates who breed them successfully and grows some of the hatchlings himself
that because his last feed was only 1 pinky, i fed him 3 days later with 2 pinkies,
feeds will be between 3-5 days, 3 days if fed 1 pinky, 4-5 days if fed 2 pinkies,
so his next feed will be 2nd or 3rd march 2011
quote:
Originally posted by Louise32
Nice pics.
How often are you feeding? I'm sure you said you only fed him 3 days ago?
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Mort13
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
5599 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 12:51:16
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He's beautiful and looks like he enjoyed his lunch.
I'm not having a go or anything but that seems like a very intense feeding schedule! |
      
3.1.0 Corn snakes, 1.0.0 T-Albino Cape House Snake, 0.1.0 Western Hognose,
1.0.0 MBK, 0.1.0 Childrens Python, 1.0.0 Nicaraguan Dwarf Boas
0.0.1 Occelated Skink, 1.0.0 Leopard Gecko, 1.0.3 Tarantulas, 0.0.2 Damon diadema
1.0.0 C0ckatiel,
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Invalid User
Account Deactivated
United Kingdom
0 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 18:25:38
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Ok, so your power feeding then?
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 18:40:24
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That is power feeding, it will cause impressive growth but at the expense of health. The correct feeding schedule is 5-7 days for a hatchie moving upto to every 10-14 days as an adult.
I urge you to reconsider this intensive feeding schedule for a more appropriate schedule.
Also on the size of the snake in the photos I would also double feed until you've used up any pinkies you have and upgrade to fuzzies, pinkies are a bit small. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
Edited by - lotabob on 27/02/2011 18:42:26 |
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CentricMalteser
Banned
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 19:26:02
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I am feeding her 2 pinkies, which I gave her last feed and will be moving to fuzzies once these are finished in 3 or 4 feeds time
And I am NOT power feeding her whatsoever, so please keep remarks like that to yourself, especially since I have done hours of research on feeding schedules
A reptile specialist also stated 3 - 5 days
A reptile vet whom I have been in touch recently with also said 3 - 5 days
Someone with over 30 years experience said depending on it's size 2 - 5 days
A very good friend who SUCCESSULLY BREEDS and have several OF HIS OWN suggest 3 - 5 days
And that is based on 2 pinkies OR 1 fuzzy
So thank your for your comments, but if I have been recommended by several people some of which much more qualified that some on here, then I will follow it.
As it has been discussed on here, different corns even from the same egg batch, have different eating schedules, different rates of growth, different tempraments, different personalities etc |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 19:55:38
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5 days is OK, 3 days is not. Its too soon, if you understand the basic biology of a cold blooded animals digestive system you'd understand just how wrong it is.
This type of feeding is intensive and is called power feeding, the aim oof this type of feeding is to get the snake as big as possible as quick as possible but you will reduce life span and possibly cause other health problems. I find it very unlikely that a true exotics vet would recommend power feeding and just because someone does it for 30 years doesn't mean its the right or best way. If you reduce to even 5 days you'd see the feeding cycle and the effect on the snake, you feed they have a few days down time, then a day where they are out but not exactly fully active then the next few days they act normally, exploring, climbing.
Let me tell you something though, hours of research is nothing at all compared to the experience on here, every single bit of advice someone gives you on the best way to do things is not just plucked out of the air, its not made up, it is established by the way this forum works, bouncing ideas, experiences and also things that don't work off each other until as an end result a way that really works well is established. There is a reason we all agree on here (most of the time) and thats because when you listen and try these things out you find it works better than any other bits of advice you've been given. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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CentricMalteser
Banned
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 20:02:46
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OK lets say I agree about 3 days being known as power feeding, even though quite a few reptile places do recommend 3 - 5 days.
This is a quote from a reptile specialist who I have mentioned a few times from his own website, by which I have full permission to use on this forum.
"Baby corns have a very fast metabolism when compared to other snakes such as ball pythons. I have yet to see any actual evidence from legitimate studies that power feeding actually decreases a snake's life span or has any other harmful side effects. When somebody can prove that it is harmful, maybe I'll believe otherwise. I know of a couple big name breeders of Burmese and reticulated pythons who practice some hardcore power feeding. I've seen 12 foot Burmese pythons lay a clutch of eggs at 18 months of age!
Famous colubrid breeder Bob Applegate (who actually has two snakes named after him) has written that you can feed Pueblan milksnakes every two or three days and they can breed at nine months of age with no bad effects. He also says in an old Reptiles magazine article that it's a myth that power feeding shortens a snake's lifespan. Sure, most people you talk to say powerfeeding is bad, but where did they hear it? From other people who heard it from other people and so on. But I doubt any of these people actually heard it from a herpetologist or reputable snake breeder. It's just word of mouth without any scientific documentation to back it up, also known as a myth. Now I'm not saying you need to do this, nor am I saying I do it. I'm just saying that you can feed your corn snake twice a week with no problems while it is still growing. I wouldn't give huge meals. You shouldn't feed it if it still has a visible lump. When it becomes an adult, you'll want to slow down alot to once a week. But a growing snake won't become obese. An older, mature snake can become obese if fed too much, and yes, this will lead to health problems possibly resulting in a shorter life span. But feeding a young, growing snake twice weekly is fine.
The most experimentation I've done personally is taking snakes from the same clutch and splitting them into two groups. I've fed one group twice weekle and the second group once every 5 - 6 days and compared for any differences in aggression and overall attitude and health. I've heard people say that snakes that are fed too much are more aggressive, and I've heard that snakes that are hungry are more aggressive. I've found nothing to confirm this. I've done it in the past with Colombian boas, California kingsnakes, Sonoran gopher snakes, and with corn snakes. I have noticed absolutely no difference between snakes power fed and snakes fed normally." |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 20:32:10
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Not once does it mention anything about the welfare of the animal and what is best for them.
Metabolism is set by feeding and temperature in a cold blooded animal so yes they have a fast metabolism if they are power fed.
Again just because it is known to have been done does not make it right.
Who is this reptile specialist, I'd like to have a read of his website, if you have permission to reproduce the info I can assume you wont have a problem sharing the website.
I can only advise you against such a practice, as would many many people on this forum but ultimately its down to you to decide how you keep your snake but if you wanted a big snake as quickly as possible just buy an adult. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 20:40:14
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| Ok, hold it right there folks. Time and time again on this forum we have "newbies" (I hate that word) arguing over things that really, they have only heard about. I, and frankly, probably nobody else on this forum, has ever raised a handful of corns from the hatchling stage through to death, feeding one half twice as much as the other. Therefore, how do you know it shortens the lifespan? I'm not agreeing with either side, however, I feed hatchlings every 5 days. On the other hand, I have never seen a proper report of a "power fed" corn being affected in later life with its life span being docked. |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 20:52:00
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I'm saying its more the welfare than anything else. And yes I may be new to snake keeping but have kept animals and other reptiles, insects etc all my life. A snake that takes 2 days to digest a meal should be allowed some time to do other stuff than just digesting. Now fair enough I have not kept a snake from hatching to death and I am aware it may not actually cause any shortening of life but I have watched my hatchling and his weekly behaviour and every 3 days would be too soon. In general speeding up matabolism reduces lifespan.
And I'm not arguing with anyone, I don't argue, I'm sharing my opinion. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 21:05:11
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quote:
Originally posted by lotabob
The correct feeding schedule is 5-7 days for a hatchie moving upto to every 10-14 days as an adult.
Does this suggest an opinion? As for welfare, its hardly black and white. |
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CentricMalteser
Banned
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 21:10:29
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I will reiterate part of the previous post by me
"I have yet to see any actual evidence from legitimate studies that power feeding actually decreases a snake's life span or has any other harmful side effects."
Is life span and other harmful side effects not the snake's welfare?!
Because I think alot of people would agree it somewhat is!
quote:
Originally posted by lotabob
I'm saying its more the welfare than anything else. And yes I may be new to snake keeping but have kept animals and other reptiles, insects etc all my life. A snake that takes 2 days to digest a meal should be allowed some time to do other stuff than just digesting. Now fair enough I have not kept a snake from hatching to death and I am aware it may not actually cause any shortening of life but I have watched my hatchling and his weekly behaviour and every 3 days would be too soon. In general speeding up matabolism reduces lifespan.
And I'm not arguing with anyone, I don't argue, I'm sharing my opinion.
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 21:13:28
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<<< Hatchling Corn Snakes start on pink mice, one every 5-6 days and graduate up to an adult mouse every 7-14 days as they grow. Very large snakes may require 2 adult mice per feed. You may also feed your Corn Snake on chicks and fertilized quail eggs to provide a variation in diet, although these are not recommended as a staple diet as these will not contain all the beneficial nutrients and minerals that rodents have. Larger Corn Snakes will also take other small rodents such as gerbils, hamsters and young rats. >>>
Taken from the care sheet on this website. As this website has been very informative and has the most information that makes sense plus a network of forum users who all follow this care sheet in my opinion it is the correct way to feed, as will anyone else who uses this website and this forum.
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Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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lotabob
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
4334 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 21:14:36
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| And I'm done, I've said what I wanted to say. |
Anery Corn snake SPOT. Royal Python, DUKE. Hogg Island Boa, SANKE. Albino House Snake, HAL.
Harlequin Crested Gecko HARLEY
Albino Horned Frog WAKA
Chilean Rose Tarantula TRIXIE. Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eating Tarantula SAM. Orange Baboon Tarantula BORIS.
Giant Asian Forest Scorpion, SALLY.
Giant African Land Snails, SHELDON & MICHELLE.
Budwing Mantis, MAIA
Dubia Roach Colony. Silkworm Colony. Mealworm Colony. Waxworm Colony. Fruit Beetle Colony.
MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL http://www.youtube.com/user/alocheeky |
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 21:20:34
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You are missing my point completely. Our caresheet, as well as other resources, are just something you have READ. By that, I am of course not saying that I have feed a corn twice as much for its whole lifespan and it turned out fine. What I am saying is, you have consulted nothing but chit chat to then suggested that feeding every 3 days as a hatchling will cause a noticeably reduced lifespan and a decrease in its welfare.
Now obviously, a snake can be over fed. It will get fat, lethargic and probably will receive some organ damage. BUT, I'm not going to go round saying it when I have consulted no scientific text or written up observations for damage not visible to the eye. |
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CentricMalteser
Banned
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 23:36:21
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Thanks Matt,
That is also a point I am trying to make, I have also since read other websites and forums, and all have a topic on feeding as you probably have guessed and also about power feeding, and they basically say that when it is juvenile - adult or 36 inches in length which ever is first, then its to reduce the feeding to appropiate schedules for that time of life, ie juvenile, every 5 - 7 days and adult every 7 - 10 days
lotabob, I am NOT saying people are wrong on this forum or anywhere else,
I was not aware a feed every 3 day is power feeding firstly.
And it's also down to how active the snake is, how fast their metaboic rate is and these factors have to be considered,
Look at cars, if you have an active car that you run every day 10 - 15 miles, guarantee you will need more fuel and on a more regular basis than say a non active car thats ran every other day for 5 or 6 miles.
There are many factors to be taken into consideration, and as Matt have said, there is no scientific evidence to support power feeding is right or wrong, as there are by far too many variable factors
Please all be assured, that I will be keeping a close eye on the development of Bruge, and I would never allow any animal to be underweight, overweight or mistreated.
I consider this the end of the debate.
quote:
Originally posted by matty18714
You are missing my point completely. Our caresheet, as well as other resources, are just something you have READ. By that, I am of course not saying that I have feed a corn twice as much for its whole lifespan and it turned out fine. What I am saying is, you have consulted nothing but chit chat to then suggested that feeding every 3 days as a hatchling will cause a noticeably reduced lifespan and a decrease in its welfare.
Now obviously, a snake can be over fed. It will get fat, lethargic and probably will receive some organ damage. BUT, I'm not going to go round saying it when I have consulted no scientific text or written up observations for damage not visible to the eye.
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matty18714
The Count of Corniness
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 23:47:23
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| Make no mistake CM, I wouldn't recommend you feed your snake every 3 days at all, I would recommend you feed every 5 days until its on small mice. I just don't like seeing statements with no backup presented. |
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CentricMalteser
Banned
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2011 : 23:53:51
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No problems Matt, thanks for your info and your opinions
and thanks for your opnion too Lotabob |
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Pics of Bruge Feeding
