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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
 Posted - 21/11/2010 : 15:17:48
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Patrick has provided me with a sample and OMG i've not seen anything like this before. Pictures are not that clear but I would be VERY GRATEFUL for any input as to why its like this. Will be taking the deposit to vets in the morning. The long bit out to the side of some of the pictures looks like a thick bloody tail almost, the whitish covering over some of it is almost the appearance of skin, and there is a small amount of what looks like nomal snake poop. It almost looks like a partially digested item but he last ate 11 days ago and this is the only poop he has done. There was also some blobs of congealed blood in his viv.
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Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
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SexyBear77
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3796 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2010 : 16:06:15
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I would say thats regurge with that description- not necessarily requiring a trip to the vets. Clearer pictures would help though.
How bad did it smell? |
9.11 Cornsnakes
1.1 Hogg island boas
1.0 Dwarf Burmese python
Location: Watford
Website- http://rassnakes.yolasite.com/ |
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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2010 : 17:40:48
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| It didn't smell to good but no worse than my other snake poops. Would he of regurgitated it after 11 days from eating it? I thought it happened within a couple of days or so normally. He has spotted blood with poop for the last few weeks about every 3 days I would find very small bits. So i am taking a sample to be checked for worms. But after finding this I don't know what to think now. Could the drastic change in temps be causing problems? He had a heat mat and basking lamp before i had him with temps exceeding 40 c most of the day. Could he of adapted to these temps and is now struggling with the cooler ones I have him in? I think you have read patricks story on RFUK. |
Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2010 : 17:52:02
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| My husband just said it smells alot worse than normal poops apparently. If this helps. Going to try and get clearer pics. |
Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
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n/a
deleted
82 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2010 : 17:56:20
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| so it's clearly a regurge. It smells worse than poo |
Edited by - gmac on 21/11/2010 18:15:40 |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2010 : 18:13:54
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Or it could just be a very bad poo since there is blood in it :s If he has a problem and is ill, I'm sure it would smell worse than when healthy. Kinda hard to tell with the pictures. He might not have digested it properly and it kinda passed through as not fully digested, if that is possible?
The blood is worrying though :( I hope he is ok, I hope whatever end it has some out from isn't sore. I'm sure if you took it to the vets though I'm sure they would be able to say if it's a poo or not though :p If you can open his mouth, if it is a regurge there might be traces of blood there or, around his vent if it came from his bottom end. |
   
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2010 : 18:44:12
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hopefully these pictures are a little clearer
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Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2010 : 18:50:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Maisimadu
so it's clearly a regurge. It smells worse than poo
Clearly i am gonna get into trouble again.
What did the snake eat last?? was it a rat? rats smell a lot worse than mice do when passed, and that doesnt look properly digested, but from experience, rat poo is different in consistency and aroma to a mouse poo.
Either way, take it to the vet and get a full spectrum test done, not just for worms, if there is blood present then it needs to be tested thoroughly. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2010 : 20:25:40
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| it was a medium mouse he ate 11 days ago |
Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
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DannyBrown91
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3070 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2010 : 20:38:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Maisimadu
so it's clearly a regurge. It smells worse than poo
Not necesarilly. |
0.0.1 Ghost Corn - Casper
0.0.1 Diffused Corn - Reggie
0.0.1 Amel Corn - Candy A.K.A Baby
1.0 Commom BCI - Rocky
0.1 Japanese Akita - Sasha
Location: Liverpool |
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Katie.Dublin
Sub Adult
Ireland
1560 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2010 : 20:57:48
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quote:
Originally posted by DannyBrown91
quote:
Originally posted by Maisimadu
so it's clearly a regurge. It smells worse than poo
Not necesarilly.
True, probably not the best method of judging whether its regurge or poo! |
     
0.1 normal (Miami) - Hugo
0.1 hypo Motley - Spunky
0.1 MBK - Tequila. RIP
Horses, bearded dragons, a red tailed boa constrictor, a tortoise, a cat and a dog |
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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2010 : 22:22:02
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| i will take the whatever it is to the vets in the morning and will post back what they say |
Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2010 : 12:21:40
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| Well I have had it examined by a vet and they say it is a poo. They also said that there is ALOT of undigested food present but they could find no worms or their eggs, but apprently some worms can release eggs every 3 days or so. So the sample may just not contain any but they may still be present. I have been advised to worm him as I have my doubts about his previous owners husbandry though I think it would have been through not knowing than deliberate. The vet said to feed a very small prey item and inject the wormer into the prey item before offering it. I should then wait 3-4 weeks to see what happens. If I am still concerned and there is no improvement with his poos they csn refer him to a reptile specialist. One thing I have been wondering whilst waiting for the phone call is; as he was kept in very high temps around 40 c for so long could he of adapted to these temps and by me lowering them to the normal corn temps it has created a digestion problem for him in that he is now unable to digest food at these lower temps. I can also remember reading somewhere that snakes kept in higher temps have a higher matabolism which could be why he is quite slim despite eating large prey item every 10 days. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS AND THE TEMP THEORY? |
Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
Edited by - Red123 on 22/11/2010 12:57:53 |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2010 : 18:29:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Red123
Well I have had it examined by a vet and they say it is a poo. They also said that there is ALOT of undigested food present but they could find no worms or their eggs, but apprently some worms can release eggs every 3 days or so. So the sample may just not contain any but they may still be present. I have been advised to worm him as I have my doubts about his previous owners husbandry though I think it would have been through not knowing than deliberate. The vet said to feed a very small prey item and inject the wormer into the prey item before offering it. I should then wait 3-4 weeks to see what happens. If I am still concerned and there is no improvement with his poos they csn refer him to a reptile specialist. One thing I have been wondering whilst waiting for the phone call is; as he was kept in very high temps around 40 c for so long could he of adapted to these temps and by me lowering them to the normal corn temps it has created a digestion problem for him in that he is now unable to digest food at these lower temps. I can also remember reading somewhere that snakes kept in higher temps have a higher matabolism which could be why he is quite slim despite eating large prey item every 10 days. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS AND THE TEMP THEORY?
Thats the bit that concerns me. Reptile wormers are supposed to be a 3 week cycle, 1 week on, 1 week off, 1 week on.
My suggestion is that you get your sample sent to a vet lab where they can examine it properly.
Talking to Kate, she tells me there is the possibility of a false negative, basically the part of the poo they looked at had no eggs or worms, the other explanation is there are not enough worms to give a sample. With the symptoms you are having, you either have a heavy infestation, in which case you would have very clear signs, or something else is wrong.
Most regular vets do not have a clue about reptile diseases, especially internal ones, they are very different to mammals and other furries.
the sample needs to be checked for crypto, a proper worm sample done, and flagylate tests.
With the fact that most of the food is undigested points to a digestive problem.
To be honest, you need to see a reptile specialist, anything else will just be a guessing game. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2010 : 18:39:19
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ok, have read your other post again.
Again, talking to Kate, shes certain the snake is constipated, dehydrated too.
its entirely possible that because of the prolonged exposure to the high temps it could have caused brain damage, this in turns completely screws their body balance, their ability to process minereals and vitamins, their ability to control their digestion, pretty much everything.
If it is brain damage, then there is nothing you can do, other than pay the old owners a visit with a baseball bat.
Its also possible that because of that, there may be a partial blockage in the bowel, so for now, feed only small food, similar in diameter, if not slightly smaller than himself. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Red123
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
2030 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2010 : 21:33:56
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| mikerichards thanks for your input but I am getting a little confused now. First you say it sounds like it could be a heavy worm infestation you then say it could be a digestion problem and now you post that Kate is certain the snake is constipated and dehydrated too and possibly brain damage! I have no idea who Kate is i'm afraid, sorry if I should know, and you certainly know how to scare the life out of people. I don't know what to think now. Any others with input to this? |
Corn Snake
, 1.0.0 Amel (Stan),
Royal Pythons
1.0.0 Normal (Nigel)
1.0.0 Albino (Tony)
Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.1.0 (Agatha)Western Hognose
0.1.0 Normal (Stevie)
0.0.1 Schneider Skink (George)
1.0.0 Extreme Blonde Harlequin Crested Gecko (Bert)
4 GALS.
Tarantulas
Red Rump (B. Vagans) Jo.
Chaco Golden Knee (G. pulchripes) Charlie, Greenbottle Blue (C. cyaneopubescens) Gus, Honduran Curly Hair ( B. albopilosum) Titch, Mexican Fire Leg (B. boehmei), Salmon Pink Bird Eater(L. parahybana), Fort Hall Baboon (P. Lugardi) Blanche, Stout Leg Baboon (E. Pachypus) Graham, Chilean Rose (G. Rosea) Glen.
Border collie x (BoB), 2 Cats (Lucky & Dip), 17 Goldfish, and The Dubia Family |
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n/a
deleted
82 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2010 : 21:51:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Red123
mikerichards thanks for your input but I am getting a little confused now. First you say it sounds like it could be a heavy worm infestation you then say it could be a digestion problem and now you post that Kate is certain the snake is constipated and dehydrated too and possibly brain damage! I have no idea who Kate is i'm afraid, sorry if I should know, and you certainly know how to scare the life out of people. I don't know what to think now. Any others with input to this?
he is quite confusing |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2010 : 22:13:24
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constant high temperatures can indeed cause brain damage, but I don't have the knowledge or experience to make any speculations to whether your snake has been affected.
I have to totally agree with Mike that a proper lab test is needed so that the correct treatment can be prescribed.
good luck and keep us updated |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2010 : 22:45:36
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Kate is my o/h, shes a vetinary haematologist, also specialising in fecal stuff too. Whilst not specifically specialising in reptiles, shes interested so is learning about it.
the high temps he was exposed to could cause brain damage, which would mess about with everything, digestion included, worms are not linked, but possible.
Sounds like, and is, are very different, there are other possibilities, dehydration would cause digestion issues, brain damage could also mess about with the snakes ability to be able to hydrate itself.
Basically, brain damage could = dehydration + digestion issues, dehydration = constipation + digestion problems.
undigested food is perfect for worms. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2010 : 22:46:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Maisimadu
quote:
Originally posted by Red123
mikerichards thanks for your input but I am getting a little confused now. First you say it sounds like it could be a heavy worm infestation you then say it could be a digestion problem and now you post that Kate is certain the snake is constipated and dehydrated too and possibly brain damage! I have no idea who Kate is i'm afraid, sorry if I should know, and you certainly know how to scare the life out of people. I don't know what to think now. Any others with input to this?
he is quite confusing
I will try and dumb it down for you in future then. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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n/a
deleted
82 Posts |
Posted - 23/11/2010 : 05:49:41
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quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
quote:
Originally posted by Maisimadu
quote:
Originally posted by Red123
mikerichards thanks for your input but I am getting a little confused now. First you say it sounds like it could be a heavy worm infestation you then say it could be a digestion problem and now you post that Kate is certain the snake is constipated and dehydrated too and possibly brain damage! I have no idea who Kate is i'm afraid, sorry if I should know, and you certainly know how to scare the life out of people. I don't know what to think now. Any others with input to this?
he is quite confusing
I will try and dumb it down for you in future then.
u should talk smarter, no one talks caveman anymore |
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WARNING poop pictures (pic heavy)
