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gregDT
Egg
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
 Posted - 13/09/2010 : 11:12:56
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This is something that I've been wondering about for a while now, as so obviously I'm posting here to get the 'forum big brains' to set me straight 
The general rule as I understand it is that small snakes don't thrive in large enclosures. As they grow so they can be kept in bigger vivarium's/rubs. My question is why? In the wild a young snake lives outside in the biggest vivarium there is, the world! To protect themselves from predators they find a tiny hole or crack in a rock and squeeze themselves out of harms way. They only venture out when they have to feed. So they live in a giant planet sized vivarium with small hides in which to live.
So why then would it be wrong to keep a small snake in a big 36 x 18 x18 vivarium but offer several small hides of the correct size for the young snake. They would have several safe and secure places to hide. When they did come out to find a cooler or hotter place to thermo-regulate or to feed they would still be in an enclosure far smaller that if they were living in the wild.
I know that the general guide is that small snakes don't do as well in large vivarium's as they would in a small RUB, and I'm not questioning that fact. I'm just curious as to why a small captive snake would have a problem with a big vivarium while a small wild snake seems to have no issues living outside.
Curious. |
Greg |
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gingerpony
Queen Bee
United Kingdom
10455 Posts |
Posted - 13/09/2010 : 11:16:48
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the wild imposes various threats, stresses and problems
as keepers of captive bred snakes we advise on 'best practice' to elimate problems as we're in a position to be able to make our snakes' lives as easy as possible |
cornsnakes, ratsnakes, bullsnakes, boas and day geckos
Location:Leeds/York/Selby area |
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gregDT
Egg
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
Posted - 13/09/2010 : 11:23:00
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| It was as simple as that. Thanks, seems obvious now you mention it. |
Greg |
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kdlang
Fully Grown Corn
United Kingdom
3556 Posts |
Posted - 13/09/2010 : 13:01:50
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| Plus the fact it would be harder to find a tiny hatchling in a big viv lol |
4.1.0 corns - Izzy (Carolina) Alice (Amel) Peanut (Butter Motley) Swayze (Ghost) Carmellia (Butter Motley)
0.1.0 cat - Kizzy
1.0.0 Dog - Dobbie
Location - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
www.support-dogs.org.uk |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 13/09/2010 : 13:59:14
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Its all about security, or lack of. Baby snakes have a vast number of predators, and they know it, hence why they are born teeth first. I agree, in the wild they have a huge area in which to roam, however, in the wild a huge number of babies die.
By giving, or taking away those vast expanses we are cutting out the fear factor.
Well, we can't take the fear away, but we can make the snake feel much more secure, which results in a much more placid animal.
Viv sizes are not set in stone, some people swear by giving a animal a huge viv, like 6ft+, which is totally unessessary, and can quite often have completely the opposite effect.
A while ago I rescued a leopard gecko, a baby, now bear in mind in the wild it would have had the run of pakistan, this little fella was in a 4ft viv, not quite pakistan, but there we go. I had the gecko for 2 days, he was 6 months old, weighed 6g and had more stuck shed than I had ever seen. He died, all because he was put in a big viv, he just couldn't cope with it, it stressed him out to the point he died.
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Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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FiestaSTLou
Yearling
United Kingdom
556 Posts |
Posted - 13/09/2010 : 14:13:18
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| Thats really sad :( poor gecko. |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2010 : 14:55:17
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I can only write from experience, My 5ft+ adult lives in a 48in x 15in viv, he would probably live and be happy in a 48inch x 24 viv and he would even be happy in a 36in x 15inch. I also have another adult, she is just under 4ft and lives in a 48inch x 15inch viv too that is packed out with decorations. However, she rarely comes out to explore. She explorered much more in her 2ft x 1ft RUB.
Also, since snakes only really come out to feed and for sexy time, then a massive amount of space is wasted really if they don't use it, wasted space in that snakes mind that could hold predators. I also imagine that a snake will rarely show signs of stress even in the wild as if they do, something that eats them could pick up on it. |
   
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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eeji
The Morph Master
United Kingdom
4335 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2010 : 15:17:29
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if you can 'simulate' their natural habitat, ie. loads of hiding places and lots of cover instead of the 'pet shop/care sheet recommended' single hide each end, then a baby will do just fine in a huge enclosure.
A lot of new owners don't give hatchlings even half enough cover because they 'don't see my snake, its always hiding' so the snakes wellbeing gets compromised. |
Forum - Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Punnett Square Calculator - Breeder Directory
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gregDT
Egg
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2010 : 18:52:12
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Ah, that's sort of what I was alluding to, in my OP. Still it's academic for me as I have a 40 inch Corn in a 36 x 18 x 18 Vivarium. So it's just about the right size and full of hides and plants and bamboo.
Thanks for the feedback everyone and sad story about the little gecko. |
Greg |
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Tiffany-x
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1189 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2010 : 19:07:59
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So if I was to put a hatchling in an adult viv bit have hides everywhere and loads of leaves so its packed it would have the same effect as a faun or smaller RUB, it would just make looking for the little thing more difficult. Im jus curious, cause if so Ill sum up the difference between buying a faun then viv with everything needed and also buying a viv but just buying a whole bunch of hides etc. But if there is even the chance that my snake wont like this I will ditch the costs and just do what is best, dont get me wrong Im not prepared to do it if it isnt whats best. But I am actually looking into a hell of a lot of shops, websites etc etc to find the cheapest of everything and noting it, even if it takes me forever I have limited money so I need to save where possible. Ta. :)
Tiffany-x |
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mikerichards
don't say the 'M' word!
United Kingdom
2901 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2010 : 20:25:15
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| Some are ok in a big viv with loads of hides, some arent, you wont know until you do it, so its your risk. |
Location : Worthing, West Sussex
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Tiffany-x
Sub Adult
United Kingdom
1189 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2010 : 18:31:00
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Ok well in that case as I said I wont take that risk if its not certain to be ok. :)
Tiffany-x |
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Sta~ple
qeeun speler
United Kingdom
6129 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2010 : 18:35:00
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| Also, if you put them in a viv and they are too small they can escape through cable holes or the glass doors. There is a picture somewhere showing an escapee. |
A very special super, duper thanks for K :3 |
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Kellog
the nice one
United Kingdom
7308 Posts |
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Viv sizes, why do we care?
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