| T O P I C R E V I E W |
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Posted - 01/02/2010 : 14:37:01
so im a bit confused :s i didnt think you could breed two different morphs of corn snake, cause of weakening genes or something?! are there different types of corn aswell as different morphs then? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 11/02/2010 : 20:32:56
quote:
Originally posted by eeji
yes I do ;)
i think what you mean is by breeding het to het there is less chance of homo offspring further down the line because the het may not have been passed down.
....and you can't get 25% het ;)
Cool Cool, yes thats what i meant! i am prob thinking of actual visual offspring, i confuse easily when thinking about genetics! especially when i cant write it down. |
| eeji |
Posted - 11/02/2010 : 20:12:10
yes I do ;)
i think what you mean is by breeding het to het there is less chance of homo offspring further down the line because the het may not have been passed down.
....and you can't get 25% het ;) |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 11/02/2010 : 11:36:18
quote:
Originally posted by eeji
quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
....For example, if you breed an anery to a hypo you will get normals het for both, if you breed the dbl het to an anery you will start weakening the hypo gene, same if you breed the dbl het to a hypo, you weaken the anery effect. Breed to a het, you weaken both..........
thats crap. (unless you have a scientific paper you can link me to, with documented proof)
you cannot 'weaken' a mendelian gene. They are extremely predictable, and either an animal has it or it doesn't and can't have 'a bit of' or 'a weakened version'.
line breeding increases the chances of undesirable recessive traits becoming homozygous (eg. stargazing in corns). It also increases the effect of polygenic traits, which depending on the trait can be a good thing (eg. candycane) or a bad thing.
You do like to jump in with both feet don't you.
If you actually read what I said, instead of what you think I said, you will see that with the exception of one mistake on my part, I am talking about the effect, not the gene.
What I said is right, although could be worded better,
Hence why you end up with 25% hets, 50% 66% etc. |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 11/02/2010 : 08:58:06
When I say weaken, I mean weaken the effect, weaken the chance of being able to make it express. I know full well you can't weaken the gene itself. |
| eeji |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 22:52:54
quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
....For example, if you breed an anery to a hypo you will get normals het for both, if you breed the dbl het to an anery you will start weakening the hypo gene, same if you breed the dbl het to a hypo, you weaken the anery effect. Breed to a het, you weaken both..........
thats crap. (unless you have a scientific paper you can link me to, with documented proof)
you cannot 'weaken' a mendelian gene. They are extremely predictable, and either an animal has it or it doesn't and can't have 'a bit of' or 'a weakened version'.
line breeding increases the chances of undesirable recessive traits becoming homozygous (eg. stargazing in corns). It also increases the effect of polygenic traits, which depending on the trait can be a good thing (eg. candycane) or a bad thing. |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 21:20:39
Most of the time its just kinks, but these kinks can be extreme! There are also internal deformities, snakes with no eyes, no stomach, and alsorts!
If you put an anery to a hypo you will only get normals, unless there are hidden hets.
Both traits are recessive, so you need them in both parents for them to show.
If you have a ghost and a ghost you will breed ghosts, because both parents share the same genes, if you breed a hypo het anery, to an anery het hypo, you will get ghosts, but not as many, as there is a lot of normal in there too.
All the morphs i know of are recessive in corns, so you have to put 2 of the same (hets or visuals) to get the same out.
If you put 2 different together, you will get all normals with the hets for the other morphs. |
| HannahB |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 20:13:20
quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
The weakening of genes mentioned is down to line breeding, breeding family to each other. The colour morphs are mutations of the genetic make up of the snake, what you can see is the mutation of the colour or pattern, what you cant see is what is happening within the genetics of the snake itself.
There isnt a lot of it within corns, but it does happen, blizzards for example can have some nasty traits, they are quite in bred to perfect the morph.
An example i do know of is albino boas, particularly Kahl strain, when the morph was first discovered there was a lot of line breeding to strengthen the albino gene in the young snakes, but with strengthening those genes, there is also the strengthening of the negative genes also.
There is a lot of evidence to prove that breeding an albino boa to another albino you have a very high chance of getting some serious genetic defects, there is also record of them dying for no apparent reason.
Breeding 2 different morphs together will weaken the effect of the morph, not the genetics of the snake, infact, you are more likely to strengthen the genetics. For example, if you breed an anery to a hypo you will get normals het for both, if you breed the dbl het to an anery you will start weakening the hypo gene, same if you breed the dbl het to a hypo, you weaken the anery effect. Breed to a het, you weaken both.
With this though, you are only weakening the morph, and any traits it may carry along with it, you will not weaken the genetic structure of the snake itself, unless, you are breeding offspring.
what type of nasty traits? iv got a blizzard and apart from being a touch ok very snappy hes in good shape 
i always thought that putting together hypos and anerys would give you mainly ghost hatchlings.. |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 19:47:41
The weakening of genes mentioned is down to line breeding, breeding family to each other. The colour morphs are mutations of the genetic make up of the snake, what you can see is the mutation of the colour or pattern, what you cant see is what is happening within the genetics of the snake itself.
There isnt a lot of it within corns, but it does happen, blizzards for example can have some nasty traits, they are quite in bred to perfect the morph.
An example i do know of is albino boas, particularly Kahl strain, when the morph was first discovered there was a lot of line breeding to strengthen the albino gene in the young snakes, but with strengthening those genes, there is also the strengthening of the negative genes also.
There is a lot of evidence to prove that breeding an albino boa to another albino you have a very high chance of getting some serious genetic defects, there is also record of them dying for no apparent reason.
Breeding 2 different morphs together will weaken the effect of the morph, not the genetics of the snake, infact, you are more likely to strengthen the genetics. For example, if you breed an anery to a hypo you will get normals het for both, if you breed the dbl het to an anery you will start weakening the hypo gene, same if you breed the dbl het to a hypo, you weaken the anery effect. Breed to a het, you weaken both.
With this though, you are only weakening the morph, and any traits it may carry along with it, you will not weaken the genetic structure of the snake itself, unless, you are breeding offspring. |
| eeji |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 23:13:11
keys corns used to be a sub species, but now they're not :D |
| gingerpony |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 20:54:17
to work out what you'll get breeding different morphs try http://home.comcast.net/~spencer62/cornprog.html (sorry again eeji!)
it's best IMO to try and avoid in-breeding (eg brother and sister, mum and son etc) purely because there's so many corns out there it's not really necessary BUT that IS how new morphs have been created and apparently there's no genetic problems till you get to 8th generation in-breeding......... |
| DannyBrown91 |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 19:19:23
quote:
Originally posted by eeji
breeding different morphs together is fine, like SB says 'weakening the genes' is a total myth.
yes there are different types of cornsnakes, Slowinskis Cornsnake is currently classified as a sub species, so one of these bred to a regular corn would effectively create a hybrid.
Ohrite, i didnt think there were sub species of corns. I though a rosy rat snake was different type of snake. I thought corns and other rat snakes were similar as i thought a corn was a sub species of rat snake.
Ohwell you learn something new everyday. |
| eeji |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 18:57:19
breeding different morphs together is fine, like SB says 'weakening the genes' is a total myth.
yes there are different types of cornsnakes, Slowinskis Cornsnake is currently classified as a sub species, so one of these bred to a regular corn would effectively create a hybrid. |
| SexyBear77 |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 18:55:29
Actually there is a type of corn called a Keys corn or a rosy rat snake, smaller than normal corns with a rosy body colouration and not much black. |
| DannyBrown91 |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 15:11:31
No there are no different types of corn snakes, just diferent morphs and patterns.
As for it weakening weakening the offspring i have never heard of suh thing and is clearly nonsense. If i am correct then the reason there are so many morphs is because of breeding different morphs with each other. |
| SexyBear77 |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 14:45:17
Of course can you breed the different morphs, all this about weakening the offspring is nonsense. |
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