| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Moppet |
Posted - 23/03/2013 : 21:49:43
Well, Kali and Apollo locked. Everything has returned to its proper place and they both look normal, but there was a bit of blood in the spill on the paper.
Is that normal? Should I be worried?
I've been hunting for my Cathy Love book because I have a vague recollection of reading about it (during research)?? Might just be wishful thinking though and the book is nowhere to be found.
Please excuse gross pictures. I don't think there is much blood, just mixed in with everything else  The dark blob looks a bit like maybe a bloodclot? It's very small though, a fair bit smaller than a 5p piece?
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| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Foxtrotsierra |
Posted - 29/03/2013 : 13:40:52
quote:
Originally posted by Moppet
As far as I can tell, they both seem okay. Apollo is still trying to get back to Kali for round two. I might let him try it after the weekend. I've found several sources that say that blood is perfectly normal so I'm not panicking anymore 
That is fantastic news Moppet - am so glad that your mind is at rest and it hasn't put Apollo off! Sounds like he is a total ladies man 
Edited as I am a wally and you DID say it was Apollo's first time out with the ladies - makes all the reading I did and thoroughly enjoyed make far more sense as they all reinforced that it is normal for a lot of gent's first time with the ladies! |
| Moppet |
Posted - 29/03/2013 : 13:27:02
As far as I can tell, they both seem okay. Apollo is still trying to get back to Kali for round two. I might let him try it after the weekend. I've found several sources that say that blood is perfectly normal so I'm not panicking anymore |
| Foxtrotsierra |
Posted - 29/03/2013 : 11:57:52
Razee - I am thinking if I work my way through Pride and Prejudice and Wuthering Heights (my two favourite classics) that I will end up in the divorce courts!
Moppet How are Kali and Apollo doing now? Hope they are doing well. I read something (was tired and really am kicking myself about not bookmarking the page on the net) about a little bit of blood if it is a male's first "go" as it were. Was it Apollo's first venture out into the land of the ladies? From what I could gather, it is actually normal for the gent to have this happen to him.
I am weird about reading scientific papers about breeding and it was mentioned in it - will try and find it again in my history later for you. Hope they are both well |
| Razee |
Posted - 27/03/2013 : 15:22:01
& Fi - I love Pride and Prejudice, too.... I know what you mean re naming them - when I brought Little Twiddler home, I had about 20 different names ready - but none of them stuck. Then it was down to Calimero, Garfield , and finally Peppino - he IS actually called Peppino, but I used to call him Little Tiddler and Tweetypie, and , well, it morphed into Little Twiddler, as he kept twiddling himself around my fingers all the time.... I hated the name, but hubby kept calling him Twiddler, and it stuck. I let hubby call him Twiddler, as I was in a doghouse for buying Little Twid in the first place, and I thought it might soften the blow, if I let him name Twidler. :-)
& Moppet - hope you get lots of little bubbas form Kali and Apollo - will be looking forward to see, what they are. :-) |
| Foxtrotsierra |
Posted - 27/03/2013 : 08:01:31
Thank you so much for that Moppet, it really did make sense. I have looked at ALL the morphs on Iansviv, it is amazing what beautiful Morphs are out there.
I love the fact too that different people are attracted to different morphs. I know snows are very common, but I picked Cathy for her temperament, not her colour. She could have looked like a poo and I would still have picked her!
I am going to make a confession, but please don't laugh. I am so glad you cleared up the ph thing. I was scratching my head thinking "ph? How can a snake be an acid or an alkali? What do they do? Get them to lick litmus paper?" 
Yep, that bad!
I have a confession over Cathy's name too. I was going to call her Lizzie (Miss Elizabeth Bennett - Pride and Prejudice) but when I got Cathy home, not a chance - she is a wild little thing that never stops and roams around her viv and it just reminded me of Cathy from Wuthering Heights roaming the moors, so it stuck. She is going to have her Heathcliff, but in about 6 months when I can get her settled. She is eating much better now too.
I genuinely can't wait to see how your babies turn out, it must be so exciting for you. Poor Apollo - sounds like the gent want a little more love! |
| Moppet |
Posted - 26/03/2013 : 22:53:07
Thanks Fi Apollo and Kali are both okay still, Kali is busy digesting a large meal and Apollo is just waiting for his next chance I think. I'm hoping they'll produce me some gorgeous hatchlings.
I am planning to sell the hatchlings from this pairing (although I may be tempted to keep one or two if they are exceptional). I'm very excited for when my other girls (and my other boy Titan) are large enough to breed (won't be for a few years yet) as I intend to keep one or two hatchlings from them if I get the morphs I'm after.
I can help a little with the genetics, we all started from the same place Most people on here will be happy to answer any questions about it that you have, myself included.
Most corn snake morphs are recessive genes. This means that they need two copies of the gene (one from each parent) to show the colour or pattern of the gene. Recessive genes can be 'carried' by a snake without showing a morph if they have only one copy, this is known as heterozygous (that's where 'het' comes from).
A corn snake which is a morph (e.g. Apollo, my anery) has two copies of the gene. Each of Apollo's offspring will receive a copy of the anery gene. If he was het amel for example, he could either pass on the amel gene or not. Because Kali is het amel, she could either pass on the amel gene or not too. A hatchling would have to get a copy of the amel gene from both parents to be an amel hatchling.
ph stands for possibly het in this case. It isn't possible to tell which hatchlings will get a copy of a heterozygous gene as there are no known 'clues' for hets in corn snakes. The hatchlings of Apollo and Kali's pairing will definitely be het anery (because Apollo is an anery) and could possibly get any of the genes Kali carries (or Apollo, if he is carrying any).
Did that sort of make sense? I love the genetics side of it all and find it totally fascinating. I'm very excited to see it in action! (hopefully)
I prefer the brightly coloured snakes myself but everybody is different. My dream snake is an extreme expression pied bloodred, they are totally amazing (although really quite rare to find a good proper oldschool bloodred). Palmettos are seriously incredible too but I think it'll be quite some time before they are in my price range!
The more I learned about morphs and what there was out there, the more I wanted so beware! Haha Iansviv is an excellent website for morphs but if you're anything like me you'll find more and more that you like!
I hope that Cathy continues to eat well for you and you can get Heathcliff I love the names, I'm (re)reading Wuthering Heights at the moment actually!
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| Foxtrotsierra |
Posted - 26/03/2013 : 08:54:30
quote:
Originally posted by Moppet
.... their morphs are in my signature anyway.....
*facepalm*
Had to read up on what they were (and do a crash course in corn snake genetics 101). They are absolutely gorgeous snakes that you have decided to mate.
I have no about the het etc, but that is my plan for today, to be able to understand what that is about!
I will have my fingers crossed that Kali is gravid, Apollo is fine and you get a clutch of healthy babies.
Just out of interest (and please tell me if I am being too nosey), do you sell them or keep them for yourself? I am not looking to buy - AND I live too far away, but the more I am reading about the genetics etc, I find it really interesting how people prove out certain traits.
I am drawn to the lighter coloured snakes personally, I think my dream snake now would be an Opal for sure. Cathy will get her Heathcliff, but not until I have got her sorted which is proving quite a feat.
Hope that Apollo is still doing well this morning. I was up at 3am reading the book and like I said, it is glossed over (which surprises me as for me blood generally equals EEEEK!) but I think that is why I like the book so much, it is factual without any drama. |
| Leedxmg |
Posted - 25/03/2013 : 23:19:29
My male left some blood too a few weeks back, nothing to worry about by the sounds of things :) |
| Thorne Walker |
Posted - 25/03/2013 : 19:08:50
Lol.. I was gonna make a comment about BDSM... then I reconsidered..
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| Moppet |
Posted - 25/03/2013 : 16:54:21
Okay, Fi it is
Yeah, fingers crossed for Kali becoming gravid. Of course I don't mind and their morphs are in my signature anyway. That's how I started out too and now I've got 6 corns...whoops! Apollo is an anery and Kali is a very bright normal/Carolina.
Kali is het for Amel, Charcoal and Diffused and possibly others. I have no idea what hets Apollo has, this is a breeding to hopefully find out. I'm hoping they have something that match or I'll just have a whole clutch of normal het anery ph amel charcoal diffused corn snakes which may be more difficult to find homes for I'm prepared to keep them as long as it takes to find them good homes though.
However, if I'm the luckiest person in the world and Apollo is het for everything Kali is (especially if she's het anery too) then I could get some fab morphs. I've heard that hypo, amel and anery are the three most common morphs to find in snakes with unknown hets. Kali's previous owner didn't know she was het amel until some fire and amel hatchlings appeared in her first clutch so you never know.
I know what it's like to have an underweight snake as Apollo was 17g at a year old and a bit triangle shaped. He's doing great now though, you would never know he was that tiny just a year ago and he eats like he's making up for lost time! There's nothing wrong with a snow, I think they're lovely and they have amel and anery genes so technically better than both Apollo and Kali. I love the simple morphs just as much as the more complicated ones, as people can probably tell by the snakes I own. |
| Foxtrotsierra |
Posted - 25/03/2013 : 12:09:50
quote:
Originally posted by Moppet
Thank you so much foxtrotsierra, I hadn't been imagining it with a bit of wishful thinking then. *phew* I've ordered another copy of that book as I have lost mine and it is very very useful.
Thanks, Apollo seems fine, none the worse for wear.
No, no imagination there Moppet! I got my book second hand off Amazon (I would rather spend the money on Cathy, and the book was in fantastic condition).
As I said, I am still trying to get my little hatchie up to weight, but did read through the section on breeding, and a small amount of blood is absolutely normal. Was surprised they didn't go into more info, but they said that a mixture of blood and sperm is nothing to be alarmed about, and that was from the revised version of the book that I got.
So glad to hear that Apollo is doing well, and please call me Fi, Foxtrotsierra is a gob full and I am very unimaginative when choosing names, so chose the call sign words for my first and last name
Fingers crossed that Kali becomes gravid. Do you mind me asking what morphs they are? I am very new to all this, but am just starting to read up about the genetics out of interest (says she with the common little snow). In fairness, I did pick her for her personality, as she is my first snake and just a pet for me. |
| Moppet |
Posted - 25/03/2013 : 11:13:15
Thank you so much foxtrotsierra, I hadn't been imagining it with a bit of wishful thinking then. *phew* I've ordered another copy of that book as I have lost mine and it is very very useful.
Thanks, Apollo seems fine, none the worse for wear. |
| Foxtrotsierra |
Posted - 24/03/2013 : 15:18:04
quote:
Originally posted by Moppet
......
I've been hunting for my Cathy Love book because I have a vague recollection of reading about it (during research)?? Might just be wishful thinking though and the book is nowhere to be found.
.....
Moppet, I have found the book (the revised version) and although brief, it does mention it, and although not many details, it gives no cause for concern. It doesn't actually mention how, but perfectly normal according to Bill and Cathy Love's book ( I sped read the breeding section )
Hope Apollo is OK |
| Moppet |
Posted - 24/03/2013 : 12:38:32
EDIT: Whoops I am a muppet, please could a mod delete this reply? Managed to quote myself instead of editing my original... |
| Moppet |
Posted - 24/03/2013 : 12:37:06
It is indeed a first time mating for Apollo. Kali is a proven female. I do seem to remember reading somewhere that a little blood was okay? Just wanted to make sure.
Like I said, everything has returned back to its normal place and I made sure both vents were closed before putting them back into their vivs as I didn't want them to get aspen stuck in nasty places.
I was going to put them together again in a week to make sure the deed was done properly, if it is a small rip in Apollo's hemipene then is it safe to do that? I read somewhere that blood can be from the female? because of tears or something? Just saw the blood and freaked out a little. Ouch! |
| oakleyman18 |
Posted - 24/03/2013 : 11:47:57
quote:
Originally posted by Dancross0
Is it a 1st time mating for the fella? Might be from a small rip in the boys 'chap'...
OUCH??? :S |
| Dancross0 |
Posted - 24/03/2013 : 11:26:56
Is it a 1st time mating for the fella? Might be from a small rip in the boys 'chap'... |
| Foxtrotsierra |
Posted - 24/03/2013 : 07:26:59
Moppet - I have that book, email me and I will let you know anything you want from it as I don't want to breach any copyright laws. |
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