| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| mrsT |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 08:47:35
Apologies if this is a really stupid question,but I'm a new owner so just want to make sure this is ok!
I picked up my 10 month old corn on Friday.He's recently shed,and the lady I got him from feeds him every Saturday,which I stuck to yesterday.
He's pretty much stayed hidden under his hide (which I expected) at the cooler end of the viv so far but did come out to eat 2 pinkies last night.
When I went to check on him last thing I couldn't find him anywhere!Eventually I found him burrowed right under the bark chips!Is this normal??The temp in the viv is about 74 at the warm end. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| elament |
Posted - 18/05/2010 : 17:47:03
Sad as it is this thread has gone down this route I feel compelled to put my opinion in which is based on personal experience. I was told by my dealer that my Xena was ready for fuzzies. They suppiled me with one and when I looked at it I thought it looked too big but i listened to advise and, regardless I offered it to her and she took it and had a good go at it. It took her about 15 mins to get that down in comparison to her usual 5 when tackling a large pinky. It got all the way in apart from the tips of the back legs and the tail and suddenlly she started to regurge. She brought the whole fuzzy up as it was too big and I am sure the effort stressed her out. True snakes can stetch their jaws open to eat meals that are bigger than 1.5 times the size of their bodies but in my case it did not work out well. I think there is a danger in trying to get your snake onto bigger meals too soon and I fell into it. Sure some snakes can handle it but some like my Xena cannot. I therefore would not recommend feeding items bigger than 1.5 times the body width and that is based on personal experience and NOT what I have read on here or anywhere else.
Cheers
Steve
Editted to add-comparing this group to the darkside? there is no comparison this site is and always will be far superior. |
| Kazerella |
Posted - 18/05/2010 : 14:10:04
Well said Hannah  |
| HannahB |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 18:28:47
thank you for apologising danny, but please in future think before you type as next time there will be consequences, no one wants this forum to go down the same path as rfuk  |
| DannyBrown91 |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 17:41:13
@Williamson, i am sorry for the way that i responded in the latter part of my post, i see that your intentions were to help regardless of the advice given.
I have never personally used "the dark side" but from what i have heard from others this is a totally different forum, smaller and more friendly and i would hate for you to leave because of this incident. |
| lee2308 |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 17:40:03
quote:
Originally posted by DannyBrown91
It may just be my oppinion but could you please refrain from giving advise unless you are 100% sure you are giving the correct advise.
Im sorry,i dont usually get involved once a mod has commented and sorted these things out but i got to put my 2p worth in,i think you will find that that IS just your opinion,like hannah said,the point of the forum is for everyone to view what they think is right and if its dangerously wrong then some one will correct them.I find that a lot of members take your advice as you have a very high post count so think your a very experienced owner when in fact you have only kept snakes since December and your advice is what you have read from others and not from your own experiences.
At the end of the day everyone has different method's and its not your place to tell them not to share them. |
| Kehhlyr |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 17:07:09
quote:
Originally posted by Williamson
.........If this forum is going to become like that of RFUK..........
Everything is monitored by myself and the other mods/admins.
Although we all deal with things slightly differently, we will make sure that we DON'T become anything like the dark side.
Your post was valid IMO, and I wont go into that any further as HannahB has/will deal with this thread as she see's fit. |
| Williamson |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 16:47:40
FAO DannyBrown.
My advise is accurate. Read the posts again. Given the timeline, my first post, was after Lilpunk, who already clarified the temps in their first post. I never said 74 degrees throughout. I said truth be told they are probably a bit cold. We had no hot/cold statistics to go on. I was mearly pointing out to Mrs T that snakes are all different and it isn't unusual to see your snake using the cold side. Also at this point in time, we had no idea that Mrs T didn't have a thermostat.
My second post about feeding, pointed out that snakes CAN consume something twice there width. I never said its food SHOULD be. It explained how a snakes jaw works. You'll find that 10 - 15 mins to eat there prey item from first bite to the middle of their body is correct.
If this forum is going to become like that of RFUK, where people point score and degrade one another, it is a sad time, and it could question my further use of it.
My advice was friendly and useful. Lilpunk had adressed temps first on both occasions (before and after) we found out about the thermostat. There was no point in me re-adressing it. I just concured Lilpunk was right.
Mrs T, you are an intelligent person. You have listened to all the advice given and are acting on it, your snake will be very well cared for. I hope he makes you as happy as all our corns do. |
| HannahB |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 16:35:03
quote:
Originally posted by DannyBrown91
It may just be my oppinion but could you please refrain from giving advise unless you are 100% sure you are giving the correct advise.
personally i think that is really rude and very unneccessary danny, williamson is suggesting things that could help the op.. everyone will have suggested something that when looking back probably wasnt the best thing to suggest - i have! - so to tell people not to suggest things wont help anyone - the forum is a place for sharing ideas and learning from our mistakes, how are people supposed to do that if other members are telling them not to post their ideas?
i dont want this to turn into a big debate so if you want to talk about it please feel free to email me |
| DannyBrown91 |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 15:21:30
quote:
Originally posted by mrsT
Thanks littlemick.....he's still buried at the moment right in the middle of the viv!
He's not been near the heat mat yet,but best to sort it before he does,wouldn't want him getting a burn.
There's just so much information out there about what's right and wrong...just doesn't all seem to say the same thing lol
going to try him with a bigger pinkie on saturday and see how he gets on
just make sure the pinkie is no larger than 1.5x the widest part of your corn and he'll be ok. I try to aim for a prey item which is around the same girth, then if i pick one thats a little thicker its ok. |
| mrsT |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 14:29:13
Thanks littlemick.....he's still buried at the moment right in the middle of the viv!
He's not been near the heat mat yet,but best to sort it before he does,wouldn't want him getting a burn.
There's just so much information out there about what's right and wrong...just doesn't all seem to say the same thing lol
going to try him with a bigger pinkie on saturday and see how he gets on |
| LittleMick |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 14:10:09
Hi MrsT, I think where the confusion comes from with heat mats and controlling them is the fact that some rep keepers/shops say that mats that are 7w and under don't require thermostats, but I think it just depends on what animal you are keeping and what type of enclosure, seeings you are keeping a corn and you already have a heat mat then all you need is a thermostat.
http://www.eurorep.net/habistat/matstat.htm
There are other makes and models but I prefer the one above. I have a Habistat, a Microclimate and a Komodo, I find the Habistst to be the most accurate and they have a power light AND a heat light. If you are unfamiliar with them, they have a socket that you plug the mat into, then you have a plug from that to your electrical supply. There is a third lead for the stat sensor which you place on the heat mat. If you are using a digital thermometer you may want to laggy band the thermometer probe and the stat sensor together so you are getting correct readings.
Here' a couple of examples of my issues with controlling heat, for 2 animals and 2 enclosures.
CORN SNAKE - My Corn is in a plastic faunarium, heat mat under 1/3 of the floor under the enclosure (wooden vivs, the mat should be inside). I have the mat on a stat with the stat sensor on the inside. I set the dial on the stat to around 29c (84.2f). Elijah spent most of his time at the cool end. After consulting the friendly loving faces on here it was said that the dial on the stats tend to be inaccurate, so alter it until the digi thermometer gives the correct reading. BE AWARE that using an unstatted mat can possibly result in the snake getting burned if it lays on it for too long. There is a thread on here about it somewhere
that gives a link to a pic of a python I think it was, with it's belly burned.
SCORPION - Now, my scorpion enclosure is a different matter. The heat mat is stuck on the side of the glass at the back, why? Because scorpions BURROW to get away from the heat so it's no good having it under the tank. This heat mat is also UNSTATTED  , first off, yes it is only a 7w heat mat, if it was any higher then I would stat it. But if I stat my 7w heat mat then the enclosure would NOT reach the desired temps. Plus, don't forget, the mat is on a wall, on he outside of the glass so lil scorpy isn't coming into drect contact with the mat.
On the feeding side, DB has already stated the size of prey guide, as for time, I think that just depends on the individual snake. My Elijah can down his food in a couple of mins per item, however when he upgraded to fuzzies it took him over 10 mins to finish it off, I think think he was overwhelmed with it, WOW xmas come early, lol. But now he is used to them he can down them in 2-4 mins.
Here is a link to a guide, this is an example only.
http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7003&SearchTerms=size,of |
| DannyBrown91 |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 13:42:40
Yes they're very addictive arn't they. Alsong as you already have a heatmat all you need is a thermostat, microclimate mat stats only cost around £20 so arn't a massive amount.
Some rep shops don't even stock them though as they don't see that they are needed because they are absolute helmets.
If your local shop don't stock them your best bet is to go online. |
| mrsT |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 12:11:05
I'm going to try and get to my local reptile shop after work today.Think the best thing is to get a thermostat controlled heat source then i can be absolutley sure the temps are ok for him.
I'll prob take him down there next weekend too when I buy his food and they'll give me the right size for him.
Cant wait to get some pics and post them on here!wish I'd had a camera yesterday as we got to see him eat both pinkies!
I already want another one lol!! |
| DannyBrown91 |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 11:55:47
quote:
Originally posted by Williamson
Truth be told he temps may just be a bit cool, especially if you have't been able to check the other end. However if he's staying in the cool end, he may prefer the cooler temperature, each snake is an individual. This is asssuming however that you have a hide on the warm side.
Each snake is individual yes but they are cold blooded so regulate their body temperature from the temp of their surroundings, just because he is in the cold end dosn't mean he likes it cool.
70-86f is the sort of temp gradient you need so 74 throught out the whole tank is not advised.
You need the cool end temps to be around 20-21c and warm end around 28-29.c which im guessing are around 70-72 and 82-84.f
It shoudln't necesarilly take 15 minutes for them to eat one mouse and the prey item offered should never be double his girth, 1.5x is the maximum that should be offered, i personally aim for around the same girth.
Feeding outside the viv or faun can be done but is not a necessity, you can feed inside just makesure you put something down so that no substrate is digested.
It may just be my oppinion but could you please refrain from giving advise unless you are 100% sure you are giving the correct advise. |
| mrsT |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 11:02:29
10 - 15 mins!!!i took him 5 tops to demolish 1 pinkie lol.he didn't strike or constrict though.he ate the first one head first and the second back end first.
Thanks again for the advice on heating......I was getting so confused as I seem to have been given conflicting advice!Hopefully i'll be able to get a thermostat contolled heater today or tomorrow,and I'll start monitoring the temps at both ends.
I feel bad for him now...I got the set up i was advised to get and thought it was all ok....at least i'm on the right track now hey! |
| Lilpunk |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 10:41:14
You don't have a thermostat? Yes, I would definatly turn it off then, as poor little snake might fry! Luckily he's chosen the cool end for now. I've never had to tackle a problem like this, but turning it off seems like the most sensible thing to do - however, try to get a thermostat today - if you can - as he may want to move to a warmer spot to digest his food. Try to insulate the viv if you plan to turn it off for any great length of time - a towel wrapped around or drapped ove rit might do - jus tbe careful not to block any of the vents. Good luck!
Temperatures should be measured in both ends:
Cold end between 18-24*c (may be a little warmer, but not much at all.)I'd say about room temperature as a guide.
Hot end between 28-31*c (Mine is at about 29-30 when regulated by the thermostat.) |
| Williamson |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 10:37:31
Just to give you an idea of size. It should take 10-15 mins to eat his meal from start to finish possibly more if he strikes then constricts his 'prey'. This can easily be double his body width, what she sees as 'struggling' is actually completly normal as they have very flexible ligaments in there jaws. I'm looking forward to seeing the pics :) |
| mrsT |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 10:27:08
Thanks everyone for your help and advice!
Williamson - the lady I got him tried him on slightly larger pinkies but smaller than fuzzies but said he struggled so they're to big for him at the moment.I've got a small plastic tub that I can use to feed him in - thaks for the tip!
I'm getting confused now about the heating as I'm being told so many different things!
I've got a wooden vivarium with a hide at both ends,water bowl,heat mat,and 1 thermometer at the warm end - lady I got him from and 1 reptile shop said that was fine.
Just spoke to another reptile shop who said I need to get a thermostat (which I'm going to) and that I should keep the heat mat switched off as it could do more harm than good as it's not on a therrmostat.But will he not then get too cold?
ooh and yes I will post some pics soon |
| n/a |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 10:07:39
Burrowing is normal behavior; nothing to worry about there.
74 is fine for the cool end, but the other end needs to be in the region of 82-86F. The next questions everyone will ask is how are you heating your snake's home, how are you controlling that temperature and what are you using to measure it? Maybe info on the housing too; is it a faun/RUB, glass tank, wooden viv? Size? I know it's a lot of questions, but it will allow us to give you the best advice for your setup.
Ideally, you should leave them for a week to settle into their new environment, just spot clean and change water daily. After feeding, leave the for about 48 hours to digest their meal |
| Williamson |
Posted - 16/05/2010 : 10:01:37
Truth be told he temps may just be a bit cool, especially if you have't been able to check the other end. However if he's staying in the cool end, he may prefer the cooler temperature, each snake is an individual. This is asssuming however that you have a hide on the warm side.
Personally I'd say 3 days is a little bit long especially considering he's only on 2 pinkies, he digest them in 36 hours as there qite small for him. so 2 days would be ample.
Have you considered feeding him 1 small to medium mouse depending on his size? Galaxy was a non feeder for a good few months in her early days, and is also 10 months old, just over 1 foot in length and eats a biggish small mouse every week.
As Lilpunk said, if you are feeding him the viv with the wood bark, it would be safer to feed him in a separate tub with no substrate, just to reduce the chance of him eating any bark nd then transfer him back to his viv once his food is in the middle of his body.
I don't belive in barking orders at keepers, new or old. I think just outlining different options is the best way, and then you yourself can decide on whats right for you and your snake. At the end of the day, any responsible keeper will only want the best for there animal. If you need any help, the people on this forum are fantastic.
I hope you enjoy your new snake Mrs T, any pics to come? |
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