| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Kellog |
Posted - 14/12/2009 : 09:46:52
Am have a disagreement with my OH regarding the heating of the viv. As I have learnt I want to have a heatmat that controls the heat in the viv 24hrs a day. His opinion is that we need to try to replicate the wild conditions, which of course means that during the night the temps would drop low and during the day the sun would heat the ground, so therefore having a light is the best option...turning it off at night to recreate the drop in temperature.
What are peoples opinions on this?
xxx |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| HannahB |
Posted - 16/12/2009 : 07:12:39
quote:
Originally posted by Kehhlyr
Do a BTD and spray the bulb. 
If you do it regularly it'll end up costing a fortune, and you can also say 'We wouldn't have that problem with a mat' 
lmao!!  |
| Kehhlyr |
Posted - 16/12/2009 : 00:10:44
Do a BTD and spray the bulb.
If you do it regularly it'll end up costing a fortune, and you can also say 'We wouldn't have that problem with a mat' |
| SexyBear77 |
Posted - 15/12/2009 : 15:46:26
Just tell the OH that mats are better for small snakes like corns than lights- surely he cant contest that! |
| n/a |
Posted - 15/12/2009 : 15:34:07
(Cant wait to meet NEW Snakey!!)
xXx |
| n/a |
Posted - 15/12/2009 : 09:38:01
quote:
Originally posted by Kellog
'If one wants to replicate the wild conditions one would have to do a lot more than simulate the day/night cycle. Trying to replicate one parameter only and without aligning all other parameters may cause more harm than good.' What other parameters are you talking about Hawkeye? You dont say.
I'm not going to list all the differences between life in the wild and life in captivity, but here are a few examples: in the wild they don't live in small boxes. They have a lot more room to roam. Food is not readily introduced in the form of defrosted dead mice, and so the feeding schedule and the way it is obtained is not going to be as nice and regular as it is in captivity, and the snake's decision to hunt/eat or not is not the same as in the wild.
I am not in favour of trying to mimic wild conditions all the way. If we did that, a lot of our snakes wouldn't survive. In captivity we have the opportunity to give them BETTER conditions than what they would have in the wild, and my opinion is that we should.
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| Kehhlyr |
Posted - 15/12/2009 : 08:01:19
If you want to start running on a heat mat Kellogs, then tell him that's what you're gonna do.
Here's more arguments FOR you getting a mat+stat.
A light would be fine on it's own IF you had a fair bit of stone in the viv, the stone would keep the temperature warm for longer than aspen and a resin cave would.
If he REALLY wants to mimic their environment in the wild, then you're gonna need a lot more equipment than a mat and stat.
He will need to find something nice and big, a wood ants nest would be perfect, so that the snake will have somewhere to go to hibernate.
Have you seen most Zoo set ups? They use heat tubes tucked away to keep the temperatures at a decent level ALL the time.
From what you've said, I'm assuming you want to move Kellog onto a mat and stat.
Does the new one have mat+stat or is that housed with a heat-lamp?
But again, if he is happy and has done a couple winters already then he's obviously doing OK, but like you said, this winter seems to be chuffing cold in comparison to previous winters.
Even I've noticed the cold, with our heating on, my heatmats seem to still be kicking in more often that they used to. |
| HannahB |
Posted - 15/12/2009 : 06:38:41
i didnt realise Kellog was heated with a light - i know it goes slightly again what i previously said about needing a heat mat but if hes fine with a light then keep it that way, if you are worried you could always have a small heatmat underneath the viv for when the light is off so he still gets some warmth although as he has survived several winters already I dont think it will cause him any issues this time round
congrats on the new snake - you kept that one quiet!! |
| Kellog |
Posted - 15/12/2009 : 03:23:36
I wasnt going to mention this quite yet...but we have another snake! You will have to wait for more info until it is officially introduced!
It came with a heatmat and light. Kellog has only ever had a light that is on from 7am til 10pm....exactly the same as he had with his previous owner. Despite my wanting to change to a heatmat (because of my research) his opinion was to keep things as they were...and this was backed up by advice given to him by a a reptile shop we use, that a heatmat wasnt necessary. To be honest Kellog has been very happy and healthy with his setup, no problems so far...although I do have concerns with the cold weather coming.
His opinion is that the knowledge in books, on the internet etc...is not based on real life keeping and that in zoos and so on they would probably try to mimic the wild conditions as much as possible...which means a heat drop during the night and heat from the sun during the day. He feels that the hide absorbs the heat of the lamp during the day and will therefore stay warm and that the snake can burrow for added warmth. During the day he has the same arguement regarding it getting too hot...that the snake can escape the heat by moving to the cool end and burrowing.
He is fairly knowledgeable about wildlife which is why he wants to do what he sees as what is best for our snakes. He is very much a snake enthusiast, he just gets frustrated when people blindly follow what is said without questioning it...and he questions it a lot.
'If one wants to replicate the wild conditions one would have to do a lot more than simulate the day/night cycle. Trying to replicate one parameter only and without aligning all other parameters may cause more harm than good.' What other parameters are you talking about Hawkeye? You dont say.
I tried the cat/dog arguement with him but as far as he is concerned they are domesticated animals, whereas snakes (even captive bred ones) are wild animals being kept in captivity and therefore the right thing is to offer them the most realistic environment possible.
Unfortunately Skorps in my relationship the small print is the other way around! 
Lee..I agree with you, I just wish my OH did.
xxx
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| Kehhlyr |
Posted - 14/12/2009 : 19:52:31
quote:
Originally posted by Skorps
......Kellog is clearly happy with his arrangements- then keep them as they are!
:)
xXx
What is your setup again Kellog?? And do YOU want to change it?
I think my mind is still a bit fluffy, so am trying to figure out if I'm right in what you're thinking/saying. If that makes sense. |
| n/a |
Posted - 14/12/2009 : 18:14:50
If one wants to replicate the wild conditions one would have to do a lot more than simulate the day/night cycle. Trying to replicate one parameter only and without aligning all other parameters may cause more harm than good.
Generally, before straying from the tried and tested, I'd recommend a person reads up on snakes, learn how their bodies work, and then make an informed judgement. If your OH is not very familiar with the subject but is now taking an interest, this could be an opportunity to introduce him to some knowledge (books, internet articles) and who knows, you may end up with a snake enthusiast who will demand to have a snake of his own!
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| Kehhlyr |
Posted - 14/12/2009 : 18:07:11
quote:
Originally posted by ivan.reho
quote:
Originally posted by Kellog
Am have a disagreement with my OH regarding the heating of the viv. As I have learnt I want to have a heatmat that controls the heat in the viv 24hrs a day. His opinion is that we need to try to replicate the wild conditions, which of course means that during the night the temps would drop low and during the day the sun would heat the ground, so therefore having a light is the best option...turning it off at night to recreate the drop in temperature.
What are peoples opinions on this?
xxx
i said the same thing in a diffrent topic but no one said anythink back yet i did not want to start a new topic about this lol
In that case I apologise for not noticing and responding, it would have been a interesting opinion Share.
Leopard geckos for example come out at night, so technically it would be cold for them as well Kellog, but it's not, the ground and rocks etc hold the heat for a greater period than in this country, hence why reptiles need heat at night.
To counteract his opinion about re-creating wild conditions, ask him if he would be happy to let the cats/dogs etc (if you have them) scavenge on what they can get, even if it means letting them tear apart a rabbit on the living room floor.
Or likewise, depending on your own evolutionary opinion, ask him why he doesn't bang his chest and scream at other males when they come near his home.
The reasons for it are simple, wild animals are wild, domesticated ones aren't.
And again, ask him if he would happily let himself go freezing cold at night if he's had heat at night for so many years.
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| n/a |
Posted - 14/12/2009 : 17:40:42
quote:
Originally posted by Kellog
Am have a disagreement with my OH regarding the heating of the viv. As I have learnt I want to have a heatmat that controls the heat in the viv 24hrs a day. His opinion is that we need to try to replicate the wild conditions, which of course means that during the night the temps would drop low and during the day the sun would heat the ground, so therefore having a light is the best option...turning it off at night to recreate the drop in temperature.
What are peoples opinions on this?
xxx
i said the same thing in a diffrent topic but no one said anythink back yet i did not want to start a new topic about this lol
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| n/a |
Posted - 14/12/2009 : 15:54:28
Very interesting read- if my OH had suggested that I would tell him "Read the small print" (to our relationship) which states that I-Wifey- is always right :) Also- terms and conditions are subject to change without any notice!
I think if Kellog was a wild caught snake- then mimicking the day time/ night time temps would be a good idea- but as he was captive bred then he really doesnt know any difference and if its not broken dont fix it!
Kellog is clearly happy with his arrangements- then keep them as they are!
:)
xXx |
| hillzi |
Posted - 14/12/2009 : 15:43:46
being there a cool end, they will try to minic it being night and day temps. |
| lee2308 |
Posted - 14/12/2009 : 14:50:35
in the wild they get what their given and in captivity they get what they need,thats the way i see it.They have a cool end so have a choice and theres heat there if they need it. |
| HannahB |
Posted - 14/12/2009 : 11:14:11
personally i would stick with what Kellog is used to and what you know
agree with SB - corns rely on the ground being warm as their heatsource so it would make sense for them to have a heat mat |
| SexyBear77 |
Posted - 14/12/2009 : 10:19:22
Wow Kellog, this is sure to make for a very interesting debate!
As far as I'm concerned, captive bred snakes aren't used to a nighttime drop in temperatures, and so don't mind not having one. As reptiles are ectothermic, having colder temperatures at night means it takes them longer to warm up and go about their daily business, which can have an impact on survival, reproduction etc etc. Therefore I think that not having a nighttime temperature drop, and instead providing a cool end of the viv, is better healthwise, for reptiles.
Also, as everyone on here should know, digestion is more efficient and higher temperatures, so if you fed your snake one night and then turned off the mat/lamp over night, digestion would all but stop and the prey can start to rot in the stomach- obviously not good! 
Also, research has proven that smaller bodied reptiles absorb heat more efficiently through conduction (absorption from a surface) than radiation (absorption from the sun)- therefore heat mats are far better for a snake such as a corn, whereas big bodied snakes such as royals do better with a lamp.
Just my opinions of course!
Edited for- being dim and missing the obvious!
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