| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Freddiesmum |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 16:52:25
just curious,and have had the question a few times and have been unable to answer. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| eeji |
Posted - 01/09/2012 : 13:23:18
quote:
Originally posted by Thorne Walker
I'd also like to add... Anyone of us who has walked in to a petshop and been appalled enough at the conditions to make a report or to try and bring attention to it is is an Animal Rights Activist
Same with the folks who try and educate about the proper way to keep an animal in captivity so lets stop with the activist bashing shall we. Not everyone who would stand up for a cause is a crazy nutter with to much time on their hands.
I also agree with this sentiment, BUT the APA are not just activists with good intentions for animals welfare, they are extremists with their own agenda. The things they do are inexcusable and indefensible but they seem to have ways of 'getting away with it' because of peoples ignorance of what they are.
There is a huge difference between your man on the street concerned with pet shop conditions and these loons (and others like them) |
| Raksha |
Posted - 01/09/2012 : 01:12:18
Have to say guys you all got a good point. Although. If it was regulates I would never have been slowed my pets after the Guinea pig accident.(fudge bit my trod while on the floor I kicked. As a reaction. Not realinsing it was her under the PC table, she. Didn't make it throw the night ) so back to point been considering starting up a mice farm my self, a friend of mine said hamster breed faster then mice, then there's the hole Guinea pig breeding for food for anacondas. ... as I said thourt about it a lot just not got the space.
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| Mike80 |
Posted - 31/08/2012 : 20:31:44
Next time someone claims it's cruel to have an industry that revolves around the breeding and killing of mice for reptile food, remind them of the untold amounts of animals that are specifically farmed and killed for dog/cat food.
People tend to get very emotional when pet food still has a face, yet don't care at all when it's presented as a bag of brown mush.
As for that article - 75% of exotic pets die within a year? I assume that means hamsters too? Syria is pretty exotic, last time I checked, and I'm willing to bet there are many more hamsters dying prematurely through loss of interest/mistreatment than reptiles. Let me guess... they didn't think to conduct a study on hamsters/degus/chinchillas for comparison's sake - they just went after the easy target of reptile keepers.
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| Thorne Walker |
Posted - 31/08/2012 : 16:54:04
quote:
Originally posted by Dancross0
What the APA are doing are falsifying data to cater to their own agenda, which is to get a ban on all exotic pets.
The 75% mortality rate is unfounded, but, compared to nature (which they are all about!) where 1/1000 turtles reach adulthood, they make us out to be bad?
Case in point is the Crested Gecko, thought to be extinct at one point. The reptile hobby has bred so many of these that there is a surplus sold at shows. How is that bad?
I don't disagree with you.
I do find comparisons to nature to be a little foolish though. Kinda akin to saying hey my neighbour murdered his wife and I only kick the kids around so I'm a good person. Nature is brutal and unforgiving and I know we can do better then that.
The 75% figure that is quoted is very (very) likely inflated by pre-sales fatalities. After all if little Jimmies snake (frog/gecko/turtle) dies there is no 1-800# for it to get reported while the pet shop that imports 100 animals and writes 75% off as lost/unsold is a different story.
The pet industry is well known for not giving .02p for the welfare of their common stock. Small over crowded enclosures, staff that would rather make the sale then properly inform potential buyers. I think that's one of the reasons it's so often repeated that a person should buy from a reputable breeder and not the pet shop in the mall.
That some window licker (Clifford) is trying to use the stat to try and ban private ownership is foolishness. What really needs to happen IMO is that the pet industry needs to be regulated with minimum standards of care and requiring the 'vetting' of potential owners as RSF suggested. Maybe even mandatory registration and inspection of breeding facilities and the banning of live stock at retail levels.
The Crested Gecko is a great example of how private ownership can be a blessing but as you point out there is a surplus being created now and that IMO is a problem. How many of those purported 75% fatalities could be considered surplus animals?
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| Dancross0 |
Posted - 31/08/2012 : 15:53:49
quote:
Originally posted by Thorne Walker
I'd also like to add... Anyone of us who has walked in to a petshop and been appalled enough at the conditions to make a report or to try and bring attention to it is is an Animal Rights Activist
Same with the folks who try and educate about the proper way to keep an animal in captivity so lets stop with the activist bashing shall we. Not everyone who would stand up for a cause is a crazy nutter with to much time on their hands.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - L Tolstoy
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” - M Mead
ETA: I don't really find that 75% number to be so impossible. How many ppl have come here with outright dangerous advice they got from the petshop? How many of those animals were destined to a short stress filled life before someone set their keeper straight. How many exotic wild caught animals die in transit or fail to thrive? Quite a few ppl here have rescued animals from situations where death was inevitable, how many more go unrescued?.
Don't get me wrong. I'm all up for any animal being kept to the highest possible standards. What the APA are doing are falsifying data to cater to their own agenda, which is to get a ban on all exotic pets.
The 75% mortality rate is unfounded, but, compared to nature (which they are all about!) where 1/1000 turtles reach adulthood, they make us out to be bad?
Case in point is the Crested Gecko, thought to be extinct at one point. The reptile hobby has bred so many of these that there is a surplus sold at shows. How is that bad?
Perhaps we are animal rights activists, but we are not animal rights extremists! |
| Thorne Walker |
Posted - 31/08/2012 : 15:26:05
Co2 can be very inhumane, It's all down to technique.
Quite a few shelters and fur operations use CO2 because it's cheap and it doesn't ruin the fur but their methods are horribly stressing. Kinda akin to a Nazi death camp ie. stuff a box as full as you can, fill it with gas and wait for the thumping to stop.
Euthanasia with CO2 has to be done slowly in stages.
First you have to fill the chamber to about 7%, at that level the gas is odourless and not corrosive but will induce drowsiness and unconsciousness.
Then you take it up over 30% and allow the animals to asphyxiate.
If it's done any other way their last moments are spent with lungs and eyes burning from the gas as they choke to death. It's not nice at all and it's one of the things that makes me consider starting my own colony of mice. It's the only way I can think of to both guarantee the quality of the lives and deaths of the mice my snakes eat (I also think about raising chickens for the same reasons, cept they'd be for me  )
I'd also like to add... Anyone of us who has walked in to a petshop and been appalled enough at the conditions to make a report or to try and bring attention to it is is an Animal Rights Activist
Same with the folks who try and educate about the proper way to keep an animal in captivity so lets stop with the activist bashing shall we. Not everyone who would stand up for a cause is a crazy nutter with to much time on their hands.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - L Tolstoy
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” - M Mead
ETA: I don't really find that 75% number to be so impossible. How many ppl have come here with outright dangerous advice they got from the petshop? How many of those animals were destined to a short stress filled life before someone set their keeper straight. How many exotic wild caught animals die in transit or fail to thrive? Quite a few ppl here have rescued animals from situations where death was inevitable, how many more go unrescued?.
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| SteGore |
Posted - 31/08/2012 : 14:37:46
quote:
Originally posted by Dancross0
Speaking of the AR lot, the APA went on BBC news to claim that 75% of captive reptile die with in a year. This was "estimated" on the amount of animals imported and bred.
This has been claimed as 'Bollocks' by pretty much everyone...
http://www.vetsonline.com/actualites/detail/57389-publication-1/75-of-exotic-pets-survive-less-than-a-year-claims-study.html
These people are morons. |
| RSF |
Posted - 31/08/2012 : 12:34:46
CO2 sound a very humane way to kill mice and rats. ON the article,,,mm mentally switched off after I read the word "activist" (activist = single minded interferering "do gooder" busybody who has to much time on their hands.)nothing against vegetarians but I bet she is one.
Any how, I think there should be an age limit as to when people should be allow to own a reptile. FOR EXAMPLE: Been to a summertime snake show at local P@home store. I was amazed at the ammount of young "unruly" kids (under 12) there pulling and draggin the poor snakes and parents saying bugger all to them apart from "oh,lets buy one for Little RomeoCruz or Chardonnay to play with.." Snakes and reptiles are NOT TOYS or playthings and I rate the chances of the survival of poor snakey very low. Some of these people dont reailse that snakey can live up to 16 -20 years and requires alot of commitment to maintain the thing in captivity. A sign reading " A Reptile is for Life not just for a few weeks" should be posted in petstores. I do wish some stores would really vet the owners and question and advise them before the buy the animal.
Please do not take this the wrong way as I am sure 100% of the people on this forum have ALL have our captive friends interest and welfare at heart and look after them with the utmost care. ( main reason we are all here) |
| Freddiesmum |
Posted - 31/08/2012 : 10:08:58
Cool. Co2 i think is the kindest way. If i had to get put to sleep i'd choose that method haha!
No time to read that article properly at the moment, but from what i skimmed through, sounds like someones talking BS! |
| Ell |
Posted - 31/08/2012 : 09:33:17
Aye they just go to sleep and then are flash frozen to preserve freshness....
..a bit like peas...mwaha
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| eeji |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 20:51:24
quote:
Originally posted by Auld Baldy
Uncontestable bollocks if they base claims by this expert idiot.
http://pjboosinger.jigsy.com/entries/general/clifford-warwick-expert-or-b-bs-d
that makes interesting reading, and also means I can impress everyone with C&G,LEEA,NTTA,RTITB,GCSE after my name
** edit - I forgot to reply to the OP!  The co2 method puts them to sleep with a mild dosing which is then increased so they don't wake. Stress free and painless. |
| coxymk2 |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 19:53:24
Hardly surprising no takers AB they have already had the op lol |
| Auld Baldy |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 19:32:12
Uncontestable bollocks if they base claims by this expert idiot.
http://pjboosinger.jigsy.com/entries/general/clifford-warwick-expert-or-b-bs-d
I watched the very first broadcast of Your Life in Their Hands in glorious, grainy black and white. According to APA that makes me a qualified brain surgeon. I have offered them all a free lobotomy but have had no response yet. C'mon guys, I need the practice.  |
| lupi lou |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 19:00:21
am all for animal welfare but that artical is just ridiculous! atleast most people are seeing it for what it is: a load of rubbish |
| Dancross0 |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 17:36:29
Speaking of the AR lot, the APA went on BBC news to claim that 75% of captive reptile die with in a year. This was "estimated" on the amount of animals imported and bred.
This has been claimed as 'Bollocks' by pretty much everyone...
http://www.vetsonline.com/actualites/detail/57389-publication-1/75-of-exotic-pets-survive-less-than-a-year-claims-study.html |
| Okeetee Mick |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 17:32:08
As said CO2 is extremely humane, simply fall asleep and don't wake up. |
| Auld Baldy |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 17:22:19
CO2 is the quickest, cleanest and most humane method.
Better than any suggestions from AR bambots. Certainly more desirable than live feeding.  |
| Moppet |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 17:20:08
Animal rights campaigners drive me crazy. 'nuff said. |
| jenjen23 |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 17:05:24
I have just started getting my mice from the animal facility at my uni, they are surplus from medical research, they are killed by CO2, it is pretty quick. Apparently the animal rights campaigners think it is cruel and want them to be killed by lethal injection, which would involve stressing the animal by handling etc, more cruel in my opinion, and obviously cannot go to good use feeding other animals (the local zoo is supplied too). Sorry if that is too much info for you  |
| Moppet |
Posted - 30/08/2012 : 17:00:28
Most places uses C02 I think. |
