| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| n/a |
Posted - 27/08/2010 : 23:01:21
Hi there everyone
I am a mum with a 10yr old boy and a border collie.
We have kept tropical fish for years and gave this up some time ago.
I kept a small aquarium and now wonder about my son having a corn snake for a new friend. My son absolutely loves and studies all animals and is actually a mine of information when it comes to anything on the sky animal channels!!
It is his birthday mid September so my goal is to purchase the necessary equipment and get set up for a new family member to arrive.
The aquarium is 2foot long, 1foot deep and 14inches depth.
Now I am a complete novice and know very little about the speed of a corn snakes growth but I'm hoping this size to start with will last a while before we need to move upscale to a bigger habitat.
I really need your best advice on heating, lighting and etc appropriate to this size of set up ... and though I have a reputable shop to visit and make my purchases...I want to gain alot of good advice instead of one shop sales advirors opinion, if you know what I mean!!!
So please please help me to do the right thing, the right way and let me know what your best advice would be....
with muchos appreciation and thanks 
***moved from Classifieds by GP*** |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 29/08/2010 : 11:26:41
Hot rocks should be avoided at all costs, in the past they have had a habit of going wrong and heating up massively, because of what they are its very hard to stat them. Heatmat wise, you want about 1/3rd coverage in the viv. Using a plastic tub for now is fine, much better than putting a baby straigh into a big viv. Usually, it takes about 2-3 years before a young corn is of suitable size for a 3ft, however, it can be packed out to remove that insecurity problem. |
| BurnedAtTheStake |
Posted - 29/08/2010 : 11:09:08
Hi, glad you like the site - I haven't been on here long myself and I find it really friendly and informative. (These guys even laugh at my jokes!)
I've heard bad reports about hot rocks - apparently there's the danger of them overheating and burning the reptile. In any case I should think they'd have to be statted too?
Hopefully there'll be someone with a bit more knowledge along soon. Alll the best!
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| n/a |
Posted - 29/08/2010 : 10:53:35
Hi there!
My thanks to you all and especially to Mike...that was great!!! and I appreciate you taking the time to give me all this advice.
Having taken alot on board here, it seems a viv is definately the way to go...so Im probably looking for 3x2x1 but something smaller for starters..yes? heat mat to cover at least half of this size and 2 thermostats to keep vigil on temps a both ends...maybe 3 hides which are no bigger than the snake coiled up...Aspen would appear to be the substrate of choice...branches and foilage and stuff of choosing...I came across heated rocks in a shop a while back..maybe one of those would be interesting.
As for my unused aquarium...well, I had a thought about newts or an axelotle or something so it won't lie dormant for too long!!
Ok...so Im off to ebay and other places to price equipment.
One wee question..if Im buying viv and putting smaller housing inside this..would a small plastic fish tank do the job just as well?? hahaha, I seem determined to re-use fish equipment!!!
Many thanks for all your help
and it's great to have found you all on this brilliant site dedicated to snakes and others.
Susan,Hugh and Bobbysox our cross border collie |
| Tiffany-x |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 20:06:32
Thats a great idea! :)
But can I give you a tip, instead of asking questions go onto every section and read the stickies, in my personal opinion that has pretty much everything you need and then ask an necessary questions following, and can I also suggest using search because there are some questions that get asked a lot. Im so sorry if this sounds rude Im just trying to explain what I did and what I think is best! Good luck with the learning etc.
Tiffany-x |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 18:50:57
quote:
Originally posted by stotty01
Hi and welcome to the forum :) the tank will be ok for a couple of months if you are getting a hatchling but you will preferable need a 3x2x1 (length, width, heigh) or even better a 4x2x1. the care sheet is just a basic rundown on frequently asked questions thats why you were posted to it :) dont be worried about asking questions not matter how big or small they are someone willing to help always :)
No, its too big for a hatchling, never advise someone to put a hatchling in a 2ft or bigger, although its possible, mostly people won't realise and will end up with problems. A 4x2 is vastly oversize for a corn, a 3x2 is more than enough. |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 18:46:17
I am stuck at work! So yeah, not much to do!
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| lee2308 |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 18:23:28
quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
My thumbs hurt!
cor blimey mike,that was a long one,nothing to do this afternoon |
| BurnedAtTheStake |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 18:10:39
quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
My thumbs hurt!
I'm not surprised!!
Good post! |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 18:09:09
4x2 viv is massive! Most corns wouldn't grow that big to appreicate the space! Some very tiny adults would get scared at how big that space was. Same possibly with a 3x2. |
| stotty01 |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 18:05:03
Hi and welcome to the forum :) the tank will be ok for a couple of months if you are getting a hatchling but you will preferable need a 3x2x1 (length, width, heigh) or even better a 4x2x1. the care sheet is just a basic rundown on frequently asked questions thats why you were posted to it :) dont be worried about asking questions not matter how big or small they are someone willing to help always :) |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 18:03:11
Care sheet is basic because any in depth detail is unnecessary. In going into any detail, it would probably sound like "this is how you have to keep them" when there is many different ways and opinions of keeping snakes.
Have you thought about what aged snake you would like? I would recommend a yearling as they are easier to handle specially for younger children but maybe a hold of different aged ones at a pet shop maybe a good idea :) I got my first corn when I had just turned 13 and found yearlings easier. The size tank you have is also good to put a yearling into, for at least 1-2 years. |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 18:00:16
My thumbs hurt! |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 17:58:08
As danny has pointed out, a care sheet is exactly that, it outlines the general care of corns, it does not outline little details on how to set them up, their quirks or little details about their habits.
The care sheet supplied here is spot on, exactly what it needs to be, no more, no less.
If it does not have the information you require, there is always the search button, everything has been discussed on more than one occasion, and you will even find out more than you think you need to know, but its all there, and its all worth knowing.
If there are any specific questions, ask away, there are plenty of people with the answers you need.
Basic beginners info regarding the viv, for a hatchling snake don't go too big, the thought that they live wild with no restrictions, so should require an enormous viv is wrong. Most snakes would much rather have a smaller viv than a huge one with loads of open space. The reason for this is because they are very vulnerable in open areas, so they would tend to be very cautious, likely to be overly aggressive and may not feed due to that stress. The choice between a glass aquarium and a wooden vivarium can be a blurry one at times, although you might have an old aquarium knocking about, its not what I would say is the best choice. Perfectly useable, just much harder to maintain heat as the glass won't insulate as well, and you also could have the issue of insecurity unless all sides bar the front are covered. I forget whether a glass aquarium should be heated from inside or out, its not something I have needed to know!! Most aquariums however will not have a suitable lid for snakes, meaning a proper lid would need to be fabricated most maximum security. A wooden vivarium is designed specifically as a reptile enclosure, so security is not so much of an issue, and heating is relatively simple, ventilation is taken care of, and you may even get light fittings as a bonus, even though you won't need them!
Heating vivs/tubs, heat mats are the way to go with corns, they are a temperate climate snake and do not require vast amounts of heat, naturally they are active during the dusk and dawn hours, avoiding the hotter daytime temps, their heat is sourced from the ground, the rocks or stones that have been heated during the day.
Although there is no regulation on how hot those stones can be, a heatmat should be set to about 28 degrees. Bulbs as a method of heating are not needed, and generally a waste of money as they would cost more to run. Bulbs are more effective for tropical and sub tropical snakes, and big bodied snakes. Heatmats should ideally only cover about 1/3rd of the viv floor, this allows plenty of space for the snake to thermoregulate.
Things like Hot rocks should be avoided, too many have proved faulty and caused serious burns to risk using, plus, its pointless on top of a heatmat as the mat is more than sufficient.
Stats, although nearly all shops will advise you that you don't need a stat, there has been proof otherwise. The main reason for having a thermostat is to prevent injury to the snake, a faulty heatmat has done, and could do again reach over 200 degrees C.
Ultimately that would lead to the death of the snake, however, it could cause severe burns, which not only are incredibly painful for the snake, they will also cost you a forune in vets bills. For the cost of a stat, it could save you from losing a pet, or worse, paying 100's in vets bills, then losing the snake.
The secondry reason for a stat is because it will maintain a healthy and accurate temperature in the viv, essential for a snake to be happy and healthy.
UV lighting is not required for most snakes, including corns.
No lighting is required for cornsnakes, any lighting you see should be purely for aesthetics.
Correctly setting up a viv.
Assuming the vivarium is of a suitable size for the snake, there should be realistically a minimum of 1 hide on the hot end, and 1 hide on the cold end, this allows the snake to thermoregulate whilst being in a safe feeling environment.
As well as this, a water bowl at the cold end of suitable size, ideally should not be big enough for the snake to fully submerge itself, this is to prevent soaking and possibly ailments.
Fake plants are a popular way of giving the snake a good deal of shelter, after all, you want a snake that is going to feel secure.
Bedding should be dry and non toxic, pine is a bad idea as I believe cedar is too, mostly people use aspen, newspaper, kitchen towel, bark chips or another suitable bedding, personally I use megazorb horse bedding, its non toxic, absorbant, and its very cheap!! Sawdust is commonly used too, but can be dusty leaving a snake coughing, wheezing or sneezing.
Any decor you may feel like collecting whilst out on a ramble must first be suitable, there is a list on here as to what's good to go, or a straight no.
If its good to go, its worth treating it to prevent any nasties from contaminating your new viv, this can be done by boiling, microwaving, cooking or bleaching.
If you bleach something, make 100% certain that its washed off, caustic burns are not nice, not only that but if the snake picks some bleach up, goes into the water, then drinks the water, it will die, and there won't be anything you can do.
There are a number of deseases and parasites that can be picked up by snakes, mostly the won't effect us, however, they do carry salmonella on their bodies and pseudamonas in their mouth, so hygeine between handling must be good.
Common parasites are mites, they are a real pain to get rid of out of a collection, so prevention is a lot easier than cure. Mites are small brown or black creatures that suck the blood of the snake whilst hiding under the scales, they can reproduce in vast quantaties and travel a huge distance in 24 hours. For this reason, all snakes should be quarantined in an appropriatly mite treated enclosure. I won't go into details as thwre are plenty of threads on here about effective treatments.
Other parasites include worms, usually they come from wild food, if the food you have has come from a wild source then worms are likely, they are not digested and will happily live in the snakes gut, reproducing in vast numbers and consuming any goodness from food before the snake can, enough of a delay in treatment will result in death from starvation. Worms maybe apparent in faeces, although for certain the faeces should be tested by a vetlab to ascertain what type of worm it is, then effective treatment can commence.
Common visible problems are scale rot, caused by excessive humidity and or dampness in the viv (soaking in water bowl) usually noticeable as small brown or off colour spots, if left untreated will eat away the scales. This usually can be cured by taking away the source of humidity or dampness.
Mouth rot, similar to scale rot, except localised around the mouth, easy to treat, as above really.
Respiritory infections, aka RI. Again can be caused by excessive humidity, but also from temperatures being too low, or a huge variation in temperature.
The snake may look normal, however, you might notice sneezing, wheezing, excessive mucus in the mouth, drooling and a rattly chest. Cornsnakes are very hardy animals, they rarely suffer from RI's, however, its not unheard of.
If an RI is suspected, raise the temps, 31*c should be enough to help clear it, however, a vet should be seen so antibiotics can be administed.
General info, all snakes are essentially wild animals, they are generally predictable, however, like any animal they have their off days, usually this will be around the time they are gonna shed, they will go blue, their scales will lose colour, they belly and their eyes will be most prominantly noticeable. It is worth noting that the blue colour will subside before the snake sheds, usually between 2-7 days prior.
Snakes are naturally very wary creatures, mostly when you think they are being agressive, they are actually being defensive, they are scared. Babies especially, they are tiny animals and are programmed to be ultra agressive when scared.
Its worth noting that many ultra agressive babies tend to make much bettwr feeders and will grow well and be healthy more of the time. The very timid babies don't tend to feed so well.
Snakes generally don't like to be held, they like to explore, when you handle your snake, the fact that its not trying to kill you or run away is down to the fact that its comfortable with you, anything other than that is purely us putting our feelings in their body so to speak.
Snakes are generally not intelligent, not by our standards at least, genetically they are not very advanced, and mentally this shows, their capacity for any 'feelings' is minimal, they may recognise you as a 'safe' zone, but that's about it.
They have enough capacity to know if you are not comfortable with them, and that's when they try and get away, or return to the person they know and are comfortable with. Whilst this is not true for all snakes, it is for most 'new world' species, including ratsnakes.
That's about all I can think off the top of my head, and questions, shoot!
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| DannyBrown91 |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 12:05:37
quote:
Originally posted by BHAFC72
I think you are spot on SooZee about the caresheet.Members seem to point you to that artical straight away which is good but very basic.You are right about calling it an overview. I did read that also and found the in depth simply not enough.It would be nice if they did a step by step guide/rough prices/where to shop and a detailed information on setting up a new home with illustration pictures.Maybe an idiots guide to snake keeping?
I've also kept tropical fish for a few years so i know the sort of information i require when starting out.
I've just brought a book which was recommended on here and at first glance looks like what i'm exactly after.
I personally think that it is a very good care sheet. Of course it dosn't go into certain details, and you wouldn't expect any care sheet to, thats what the forum is here for so that you can ask specific questions.
But it does outline the basic care needs and this is what most people need praticularly when people go out and buy a corn snake without researching and just listening to what their pet shop has to say, i found it to be a great help in the run upto buying my first corn.
But regardless i believe it is detailed enough to do the job it is intended to do. Which is not give you every single detail which you may need to know, for example how to set up a hatchlings tank (Which their is a sticky for) or how to modify an aquarium for a corn snake (something which the majority of keepers will never need to do). |
| BurnedAtTheStake |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 12:01:42
Hi, Soozee, welcome to the house of fun!
Yes, I too favour the plenty of room but plenty of hides option. When it comes to hides, especially for a small snake, you can save money and improvise with stuff like small carboard boxes (only avoid ones with sticky tape sealing gaps - tape can go tacky in warmth and stick to snake), loo roll and kitchen roll inners, and even ceramic plantpots laid on their sides. Snakes love to curl up in a small space and though the tank may not look very glamorous, the snake will be delighted. I also hunt through the hamster/gerbil section of the pet store - those grass mouse nests and coconut rodent hides are good for small snakes, and cheap too. Then when the snake is big enough you can always buy the posh reptile hides.
Corns usually sleep a lot during the day and like to come out at dusk. I say 'usually' because they are all different - lively ones, friendly ones, shy ones, grumpy ones ... Like mammals. One thing with snakes - they will often have a week of being friendly and then go off and sleep for a week, even if not preparing to shed. They tend to go in phases.
Hatchling corns are enchanting - I started with hatchlings, because I liked the idea of seeing them grow and interacting with them from babies - but omg are they wriggly and lively! An older snake will be more placid and predictable (usually) when handling, and will also have a more predictable feeding record.
Something nobody ever tells you - a small snake's droppings look rather like a bird's - black faeces and white urates (urine.) The urates are often dry and powdery (and stink of ammonia) - unless snakey is sitting in your lap, when the whole thing will be wet and squirty and smelly! An older snake's droppings may look like cat diarrohea and even contain lumps of compacted fur, which it doesn't digest. (Charming subject, I know, but when I got my first snakes I wondered what I was supposed to look out for and was too embarrassed to ask the shop - though my local shop's very good.)
I'm writing this just from my own experience - I got my first snakes last October, so I'm a novice. I'd been wanting snakes all my life and have never regretted it!
All the best! |
| elament |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 11:35:24
I will try to help as much as I can but i am by no means an expert especially so in the case of using aquariums as vivs. I personally use wooden vivs as they are made for the job. With the aquarium you are using your first priority is to make sure the lid is secure and can no way be lifted off. One thing you will learn is that Corns are brilliant escape artists. This is why i use a viv as i said before its made for the job and is more escape proof. However if you are intending to use the tank as mentioned already corns (especially small ones) can (not always) get a little freaked out by a big enclosure. This can lead to feeding and behavioural issues. This is NOT ALWAYS the case however as in my experience both of my snakes went into vivs that would be considered too large. I overcame this by packing both vivs out with lots of hides and plastic plants etc. You may find if you go for a yearling snake (one that is a year old) you may find it easier to cope with as yearlings usually have a feeding and shedding pattern established. Also a yearling would be larger and therefore more suitable for the tank you are intending to use. Alternatively you could buy a faunarium for the snake with the intention of using the tank when he/she needs a bigger home. If you go for the faun the thread below is an excellent guide to setting one up.
http://www.thecornsnake.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9878
I hope that helps
cheers
steve
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| herriotfan |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 09:38:50
Hi
Welcome to the forum.
If you decide to ask for advice in a shop don't forget that they are there to make a profit! I think that's what you hinted at in your first post!!
We will try our best to help, like you say a good snake book is always a route to go down.
Has our lee2308 put your mind at rest or are there any more questions you want to ask?
I think it's a lovely idea to get your son a cornsnake, they are super pets. Not only are they good pets they are also experts at massaging hands!! |
| BHAFC72 |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 09:31:22
I think you are spot on SooZee about the caresheet.Members seem to point you to that artical straight away which is good but very basic.You are right about calling it an overview. I did read that also and found the in depth simply not enough.It would be nice if they did a step by step guide/rough prices/where to shop and a detailed information on setting up a new home with illustration pictures.Maybe an idiots guide to snake keeping?
I've also kept tropical fish for a few years so i know the sort of information i require when starting out.
I've just brought a book which was recommended on here and at first glance looks like what i'm exactly after.
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| lee2308 |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 00:54:12
The tank would be ok if you blank off 3 sides of it and really fill it with hides and fake plants ect,for a young snake it is best to go for a heat mat,preferably inside as glass is known to crack with mats underneath,you will need the mat to cover 1/3 of the tank and get 2 digital thermometers,one for the hot end and one for the cool.You will need a thermostat to control the temps of the mat too.
As for substrate most people tend to go for aspen and the thank would last until the snake measures the length+width of the tank,one piece of advice i would offer is to use a wooden viv as the keep the temps better but people do use tanks as long as your home is warm. |
| n/a |
Posted - 28/08/2010 : 00:34:52
Yes...Ive read the care sheet but as you see it is an overview and doesn't tell me personally any of my questions Ive asked.
I understand I need to adapt the tank and ceate a firm lid, that it will require either a heat mat or bulb with a guard/ or both.. so having a good view into the tank and the snake. I understand the eating schedule and required pinkies /mice etc and how often etc.Humidity when assisting the shedding process and water sources in general
My questions are more about the suitability of my tank size for starters, what is the best heating sources and what size am I looking for, re: heat mat, thermostatic probes to keep an eye on hot and cool area's..what am I looking for exactly??? What do most people find is the best main substrate to use, etc.How long could a baby corn snake live in this size of tank approx. before the need to increase set up, etc
Maybe it would be easier to visit the shop and ask when Im there...and buy a book!!!Then visit ebay for best prices and buy what I need
Thanks anyway for your reply!!  |
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