| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| AcidicAngel |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 22:33:21
Just wondering if there is any way of finding out the het's for a snake without having to breed? There are a hundred and one possibilities for hets for my boy Cereus, so without breeding him to almost every corn morph there is to find out I have no way of knowing unless there is another way  |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Isoldael |
Posted - 15/01/2013 : 11:20:04
Not that I know of. A marker is almost never 100% accurate though. A common example for a marker of a genetic disease is blue eyes and a white fur in dogs and cats. This can either be caused by "normal" genes, but is also paired with with a congenital disease that causes deafness. I know that it's not actually a het in this case, but it's the most commonly known example I could find right now.
For instance, dogs with the piebald gene have a much higher occurence of congenital deafness, while not all dogs with that gene have the disease. You could still call it a marker though, as the occurence is so high. It could encourage people to get their dog tested properly. The same would go for corns - if you find a marker for a certain het, you could do more specific breeding trials rather than just guessing the hets, but it wouldn't be 100% certain that the corn has the gene until breeding. |
| Dancross0 |
Posted - 15/01/2013 : 07:50:05
quote:
Originally posted by Isoldael
quote:
The main point is, if a recessive het changed an animal from the wildtype, it wouldn't be recessive, but co-dominant.
I've posted this before and I'll post it again - a het marker does NOT necessarily mean it's the gene itself "showing through". In many species, some genes are linked to others and have a higher cccurence together - a (made up) example could be corns having a black spot on the iris are more likely to be het for caramel. The black spot could be caused by a completely different gene. If, say, 90% of the snakes with the black spot on their iris are het for caramel, you could call it a het marker. That doesn't make the caramel anything else than recessive though ^^
@gmac - sounds AWESOME, can't wait! :D
If it is linked to a het, but not directly to the gene, it could show up in any snake, making it a misleading marker.
Any actual examples of this in corns? |
| Isoldael |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 21:43:00
quote:
The main point is, if a recessive het changed an animal from the wildtype, it wouldn't be recessive, but co-dominant.
I've posted this before and I'll post it again - a het marker does NOT necessarily mean it's the gene itself "showing through". In many species, some genes are linked to others and have a higher cccurence together - a (made up) example could be corns having a black spot on the iris are more likely to be het for caramel. The black spot could be caused by a completely different gene. If, say, 90% of the snakes with the black spot on their iris are het for caramel, you could call it a het marker. That doesn't make the caramel anything else than recessive though ^^
@gmac - sounds AWESOME, can't wait! :D |
| eeji |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 21:20:46
quote:
Originally posted by Charles
Unless we start a collection to sequence the snake genome. - I have friends with the technology!
that would need to be one massive whip round!  |
| AcidicAngel |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 21:16:18
quote:
Originally posted by gmac
there is some work in the labs at the moment looking into the corn genes and identifying them without the need for dna testing, at liverpool university. there is one top breeder in the country working with them in this area ;)
Ooh, sounds promising! |
| gmac |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 19:06:13
there is some work in the labs at the moment looking into the corn genes and identifying them without the need for dna testing, at liverpool university. there is one top breeder in the country working with them in this area ;) |
| AcidicAngel |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 18:58:23
quote:
Originally posted by Dancross0
quote:
Originally posted by Isoldael
There's no reliable way except breeding or knowing the parents. Some people say you can see certain hets "shine through" (e.g. a more yellowish tinge on snakes that are het for caramel) and some say it's nonsense. It's not a 100% certain way to find out hets either way. The only way for that is to breed, sadly.
Even the big US breeders say there are no 'visable hets', the most popular ones being more yellow in het caramel animals, colour bleeding onto the belly for het hypo/diffused (depending on who you talk to!), and the split belly checker in het diffused animals have been proved to be a separate thing as well (linked to masque, shallow saddles, and various other factors...).
The main point is, if a recessive het changed an animal from the wildtype, it wouldn't be recessive, but co-dominant.
But there are several factors that are being looked into. One is red coat, where the animal has more red in, yellow factor for yellow, and ongoing breedings to determine whever christmas is allelic to hypo and strawberry (it looks like it is!).
Well my boy is more white than yellow? Especially for a butter... Nah, I don't think that means anything except possible Hypo Butter rather than normal Butter.. |
| Dancross0 |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 17:00:55
quote:
Originally posted by Isoldael
There's no reliable way except breeding or knowing the parents. Some people say you can see certain hets "shine through" (e.g. a more yellowish tinge on snakes that are het for caramel) and some say it's nonsense. It's not a 100% certain way to find out hets either way. The only way for that is to breed, sadly.
Even the big US breeders say there are no 'visable hets', the most popular ones being more yellow in het caramel animals, colour bleeding onto the belly for het hypo/diffused (depending on who you talk to!), and the split belly checker in het diffused animals have been proved to be a separate thing as well (linked to masque, shallow saddles, and various other factors...).
The main point is, if a recessive het changed an animal from the wildtype, it wouldn't be recessive, but co-dominant.
But there are several factors that are being looked into. One is red coat, where the animal has more red in, yellow factor for yellow, and ongoing breedings to determine whever christmas is allelic to hypo and strawberry (it looks like it is!). |
| AcidicAngel |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 15:09:20
quote:
Originally posted by Isoldael
Nope, not all corn snakes have the same DNA. Then they would all look exactly the same (except for colour)! Corns are just like humans, there's a huuuuuuge range of possible combinations of genes. If we could find the exact loci of the hets, though, we could in theory say exactly which hets a snake has :D
See that would be very helpful... |
| Isoldael |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 15:07:33
Nope, not all corn snakes have the same DNA. Then they would all look exactly the same (except for colour)! Corns are just like humans, there's a huuuuuuge range of possible combinations of genes. If we could find the exact loci of the hets, though, we could in theory say exactly which hets a snake has :D |
| AcidicAngel |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 15:00:57
I was wondering if they could do DNA testing or something but corn snakes all have the same DNA don't they? It's just a different colour gene for them all. |
| Charles |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 14:41:45
Unless we start a collection to sequence the snake genome. - I have friends with the technology! |
| AcidicAngel |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 13:08:35
I know but like I say, my female is supposed to be het Lavender & Anery as her mother was supposed to be a Lavender het Anery & Hypo which is how she became hypo but her father... No clue. Male is a different story. |
| SexyBear77 |
Posted - 14/01/2013 : 08:29:12
The most common hets are amel and anery, with others like caramel, hypo, stripe etc being not too uncommon. Part of the fun of breeding is seeing what surprises may hatch! |
| AcidicAngel |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 22:55:14
quote:
Originally posted by Isoldael
Well, if he would be het for tessera he would visually be a tessera :P So you can rule that out
Fair do's. I don't know what he could be het for.. He could be het for anything or nothing really |
| Isoldael |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 22:49:17
Well, if he would be het for tessera he would visually be a tessera :P So you can rule that out |
| AcidicAngel |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 22:41:23
Aww :( I've asked his original owner(my uncle) what his parents were but don't expect an answer as he doesn't really speak to my side of the family any more due to personal reasons... It's just without knowing his het's I'm in for a possible surprise when(if) I get eggs off my girl because he's the father. Now I'm expecting all normal(carolina) het Hypo, Caramel & Amel from them as female being Hypo poss het Lavender & Anery but not 100% on that and male being Butter... I'm not a huge fan of surprises... Unless I find out he's het for Tessera(dominant over normal) or something as that would be helpful. |
| Isoldael |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 22:37:11
There's no reliable way except breeding or knowing the parents. Some people say you can see certain hets "shine through" (e.g. a more yellowish tinge on snakes that are het for caramel) and some say it's nonsense. It's not a 100% certain way to find out hets either way. The only way for that is to breed, sadly. |
