| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| chrisc |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 13:46:08
the IHS and FBH need our support an funding to fight the idiots from the APA and to stop them ruining out amazing hobby. the court case that is going on today will obviously be draining their funds so please help by joining the IHS an FBH and donate if you can even if its only a couple of quid. if we could all donate a small amount it all adds up to help the people that are fighting hard to stop these uneducated morons who have more funding as people think their doing good an donate to them.
i will be joining an donating as soon as i get paid in a weeks time.
heres the links
http://www.fbh.org.uk/
http://international-herpetological-society.org/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=78 |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| voodoo |
Posted - 16/06/2012 : 01:25:01
just read through the APA facebook page and website. never heard of them before. why is their cause (not keeping wild animals as pets) now becoming dont keep anything except cats and dogs (themselves domesticated wild animals) as pets? most snakes and other reptiles are captive bred, not wild. ditto for a lot of birds and rodents. and there are far too many abused non-exotic animals around. any pet owner needs to know how to look after a pet correctly, not just exotic pet owners. Ill definitely be donating to IHS and FBH come pay day. |
| gmac |
Posted - 16/06/2012 : 00:14:12
The APA are dillusional and are spouting their useless propoganda to keep the folks that give them the money sweet, legally they have no leg to stand on as has been shown today.
If we took anything they said at face value we would not keep reptiles, they are trying to spread misinformation so folks wont turn up on Sunday. Dont take what they say and publish with a pinch of salt though take it with the whole salt mine ;)
the show is on and there is no restrictions on place for the purchasing or selling of reptiles |
| nickyff |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 22:52:40
now I'm REALLY confused..
the apa facebook page has posted this-
"Organisers of a proposed wildlife market in Doncaster had an expensive and wasted day in court today as the Judge decided that they can have a meeting at the Dome on Sunday 17th but reminded them that Council enforcement officers will be on site to gather evidence of any animal selling with a view to prosecution."
there is a lot more but I'm not giving them the space.
so what's the truth re the court case against the council for breach of contract? are the APA just out and out liars?
I don't know whether to drive all the way there with my titchy person if all we can do when we get there is look.
Isuppose they could do "buy a very expensive RUB, get a free snake" - that would get round the so-called legal objection???
whats going on 
|
| gmac |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 21:35:46
seems there is some confusion between threads,
The doncaster show is going ahead as planned, the FBH won the court case today and the sale of reptiles as well as the show itself is going ahed. Just to clear up any missunderstanding on this thread. |
| QueenVic |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 21:26:48
Oops, feel slightly responsible for going off topic :P
Anyways, Ill be joining the IHS as soon as ive got the pennies.
And if there are any protesters near the dome on Sunday i will beat them with a sturdy vivarium. |
| nickyff |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 21:24:40
never heard of the APA before, but they do appear to be disturbingly well funded hypocrites- (they claim that all keepers of 'exotic' pets are 'ignorant') -HA !
I just had a brief scan of their website... it's very telling that there is NOWHERE on the site for any alternative views to be put forward: it's just a series of bigoted nonsensical rants.
What I don't understand is why they're picking on the IHS meets, when they claim to be primarily concerned with eradicating the transport of wild animals?
I could be wrong of course, but as far as I know, EVERYTHING being traded at Doncaster would've been captive bred, and therefore NOT any concern of the APA.
confused.
and my son is disappointed; he'd been promised a trip to look at lots of interesting snakeys +.
ah well....
seems every playground simply has to have its bully. |
| a33272 |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 20:38:58
quote:
Originally posted by Callazagy
To be fair this topic did need to be brought up, as chrisc said it was origionally about helping the IHS and FBH, it just went a little of topic. This and what is being discussed on another thread are kind of seperate issues, this is about the problems facing the herpetology hobby/trade/reasearch in general not just this weekends breeders meet.
I never disputed what was originally brought up. but it soon became about Donny an what was posted with regards to the rfuk letters was already in a thread else where. Keep this to what it started to about helping ihs/fbh with tackling the issue with apa an not about specific shows an events they are targeting. |
| a33272 |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 20:33:38
quote:
Originally posted by chrisc
quote:
Originally posted by a33272
These letters/emails are already linked in the Donny thread in show section. Can we try an keep it all in one place before we get flooded with threads like on other forums.
sorry didnt know there was another thread i posted the first bit about donating on every forum an group i use
That's fine mate, but lets keep the donations as one an the donny chat seperate before it all just becomes one big confused mess on what this thread is about. |
| Callazagy |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 16:50:46
To be fair this topic did need to be brought up, as chrisc said it was origionally about helping the IHS and FBH, it just went a little of topic. This and what is being discussed on another thread are kind of seperate issues, this is about the problems facing the herpetology hobby/trade/reasearch in general not just this weekends breeders meet. |
| chrisc |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 16:35:00
quote:
Originally posted by a33272
These letters/emails are already linked in the Donny thread in show section. Can we try an keep it all in one place before we get flooded with threads like on other forums.
sorry didnt know there was another thread i posted the first bit about donating on every forum an group i use |
| a33272 |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 15:58:59
quote:
Originally posted by QueenVic
Oh, just read that second bit...
"Further to the position outlined in the letter by the International Herpetological Society, it is with regret that I must inform you that Doncaster Culture Leisure Trust will not allow the event to take place at The Dome.
This decision is in relation to the event scheduled on Sunday 17th June 2012."
Does this mean it is cancelled??
Basically Donny said u can hold the show but can't trade reptiles. ihs/fbh have said u can't stop us trading reptiles we have a contract weve traded at this show for years no laws have changed. Donny people have said if thats your view we will not let you hold the show here Sunday. Ihs/fbh are now after a court ruling for breach of contract.
Personnally I think this is clutching at straws a council won't of said what they have on a whim. If they said it they ment it |
| a33272 |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 15:53:22
These letters/emails are already linked in the Donny thread in show section. Can we try an keep it all in one place before we get flooded with threads like on other forums. |
| QueenVic |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 15:27:25
Oh, just read that second bit...
"Further to the position outlined in the letter by the International Herpetological Society, it is with regret that I must inform you that Doncaster Culture Leisure Trust will not allow the event to take place at The Dome.
This decision is in relation to the event scheduled on Sunday 17th June 2012."
Does this mean it is cancelled??
|
| QueenVic |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 15:25:01
I had actually scanned through that on another forum.
I guess we will just have to wait for an update to find out whats going on |
| chrisc |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 15:22:58
Response to letter received 14th June, 12.28pm
Re: International Herpetological Breeder’s Meeting, 17th June 2012
Dear Chris
Thank you for your letter received today regarding to the International Herpetological Society’s position in relation to the operation of the event scheduled to take place on Sunday 17th June 2012.
As you aware Doncaster Culture and Leisure Trust met with yourself and Richard Brook to request that the event on Sunday took place with a ruling of no sale of any animal. We were clear that if this request could not be met, Doncaster Culture and Leisure Trust would be unable to allow the event to take place at a venue under the Trust portfolio.
Further to the position outlined in the letter by the International Herpetological Society, it is with regret that I must inform you that Doncaster Culture Leisure Trust will not allow the event to take place at The Dome.
This decision is in relation to the event scheduled on Sunday 17th June 2012.
I would be grateful if you could inform me of your intentions towards the Conference and Function scheduled to take place at The Dome on Saturday 16th June 2012.
Also at the meeting we discussed that once a decision was reached we would issue a joint press release, can I confirm that you still wish to do this? And if so could you please contact me with regard to the proposed wording.
Yours sincerely
Michael Hart
Chief Executive
Doncaster Culture and Leisure Trust
Open Letter to:
Michael Hart, Chief Executive - Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust
cc Jo Miller,Chief Executive - Doncaster Borough Council
Re: International Herpetological Breeders Meeting 17th of June 2012
Dear Michael,
I am afraid that the DCLT’s action is a flagrant breach of its contract with Richard Brook and IHS. Richard and the IHS have been given insufficient notice of all this and have had no time to mitigate their losses. The only sensible option is to issue proceedings and these will be put in hand as soon as possible. Samuel Laughton of Counsel has been retained and our Solicitors will instruct him shortly. The plan is to issue on an emergency basis in the Chancery Division in London with a hearing tomorrow. If DCLT wishes to attend and wishes to be represented you need to answer Matthew Knight’s letter/fax of even date and indicate who is going to deal with this for DCLT. In the absence of any of this our solicitors will issue without formal notice and will go ahead with the injunction application on an exparte basis ie without DCLT present or represented.
Obviously it would be better if DCLT was present and was represented and so I suggest that you organise your solicitors to defend these proceedings and to line Counsel up to represent DCLT in the Chancery Division tomorrow.
As regards to the conference, arrangements for this remain unchanged.
Yours sincerely,
Chris Newman
Chairman Federation of British Herpetologists
14th June, 2012 @ 15:51hrs
cc Knights Solicitors
Rt. Hon Rosie Winterton MP, Doncaster Central
Rt. Hon Ed Miliband MP, Doncaster North
Rt. Hon Caroline Flint MP, Don Valley
Peter Davies, Mayor of Doncaster
|
| QueenVic |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 15:22:55
the conference is Saturday though isnt it? and the show is on Sunday..
I read that they might be trying to stop the sale of any animal... which seems to defeat the point of the show entirely. |
| chrisc |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 15:22:26
Posted you know where
Chris Newman
Chairman Federation of British Herpetologists
Dear all,
As you are all know doubt aware a matter has arisen in respect of the IHS Breeders Meeting scheduled to take place this Sunday the 17th of June 2012. The information contained within the Animal Protection Agency Press Release dated the 12th of June is, as one would expect, not entirely accurate.
Notwithstanding this there are significant issues with the event, below is an exchange of correspondence between myself and the chief executive of Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust who operate the venue which I believe are self explanatory.
The matter is now in the hands of our legal advisors and this will be in Court tomorrow [15th of June]. I shall post further information as it becomes available. If you are planning to attend the show on the Sunday then please watch this space for updates. Those attending in a formal capacity will be informed by phone of developments as soon as they are known.
The FBH Conference on the Saturday will not be affected.
Thank you for your continuing support.
Regards,
Chris Newman
Chairman Federation of British Herpetologists
Open Letter to:
Michael Hart, Chief Executive - Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust
cc Jo Miller,Chief Executive - Doncaster Borough Council
Re: International Herpetological Breeders Meeting 17th of June 2012
Dear Michael,
Further to the discussions that took place at the meeting on the 12th of June and our subsequent telephone conversations, regrettably we cannot concede to your demands that no animals be sold on the day. As chairman of the Federation of British Herpetologists it is incumbent upon me to represent the best interests of the herpetological community.
The Breeders’ Meeting, at which breeders have always sold and exchanged surplus breeding stock, has taken place at the Dome since 2004. No changes in legislation have been enacted since that time other than the proposed removal of Section 2 of the Pet Animals Act 1951 under the Animal Welfare Act. As you know this proposed change in legislation would be welcomed by the FBH as it would permit such events to be licensed, a position also supported by Doncaster Borough Council in the past.
Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust has entered into a binding contract with the International Herpetological Society to provide facilities for the Society to hold its Breeders’ Meeting on the 17th of June 2012, as it has for the past eight years, and there is no reason why this year’s event cannot proceed as it has previously. It is our understanding that these Breeders Meetings are fully compliant with the law and we are, therefore, unable to change the remit of the event in particular at such short notice. We believe it is unnecessary, unreasonable and disproportionate.
It would be easy for us to agree that no animals would be sold on the day and then to dishonour that commitment. But, unlike our opponents, we operate with the highest levels of integrity and such an action is ethically untenable. It is our firm belief that Breeders’ Meetings are fully compliant with the Pet Animals Act 1951 as amended. I would suggest this view is supported by Doncaster Borough Council who have approved the events over the past eight years and have even attended in an official capacity. In 2010 Doncaster Borough Council sought a barrister’s opinion on the matter and took no action having found no cause for legal or ethical complaint them.
The most logical course of action for all parties is for the event to take place normally and for the authorities take remedial action if they believe any transgressions of the law have taken place.
In our opinion it is patently clear from the meeting on the 12th that Doncaster Borough Council are endeavoring to make Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust the scapegoats and close a lawful event simply because the Council have received criticism from a vocal minority. I am aware of the contractual issues between Doncaster Borough Council and Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust, but I trust that all in authority would act with integrity and not seek punitive retribution should the Trust honor its legal commitments. This behavior would be entirely unethical.
If Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust breaches its contract with the International Herpetological Society and cancels or alters the hire of the facilities for its Breeders’ Meeting on the 17th of June, we have no choice but to take immediate civil litigation to enforce the terms of the contract. We therefore require that you confirm in writing by no later than 15:00hrs today (14th June), the decision of Doncaster Cultural Leisure Trust in respect of this matter.
We fully appreciate and regret the pressure that you are under and we were not aware until Tuesday that you had received death threats for allowing the event to run in the past. Organisers and members from the International Herpetological Society have also been threatened and over the past ten years my own home has been attacked six times by fanatical Animal Rights Activists.
We cannot and should not, however, allow threats from a vocal minority to affect the thousands of people who enjoy these events and we must take whatever action is necessary to allow the IHS Breeders’ Meeting to take place this weekend.
Yours sincerely,
Chris Newman
Chairman Federation of British Herpetologists
14th June, 2012 @ 12:00hrs
cc Knights Solicitors
Rt. Hon Rosie Winterton MP, Doncaster Central
Rt. Hon Ed Miliband MP, Doncaster North
Rt. Hon Caroline Flint MP, Don Valley
Peter Davies, Mayor of Doncaster
|
| chrisc |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 15:21:51
the IHS conference is not affected as far as i know an they are in court today to try an resolve the issue.
will post the emails about it in a minute.
|
| QueenVic |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 15:19:27
Yeah that is ridiculous.
So is the show on on sunday? |
| chrisc |
Posted - 15/06/2012 : 15:08:09
all of their arguments are based on untrue facts that
their "scientists" an "experts" make up.
basically they dont want us keeping exotic animals because we cant create the right enviroment for them an its apparently immane an cruel.
their site states,
"The majority of wild-trapped animals die from the stress and disease that is associated with every stage of their harrowing journey"
when its more like 0.05% of WC animals that die in transit, look at crested geckos they were thought to be extinct untill a few were found then breeding programes were setup an not they are thriving in the wild again.
these idiots have really got my back up the last couple of days |
