| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| LynneM_212 |
Posted - 03/02/2011 : 13:24:18
Ive been hearing about how everyone feeds their snake in a different place and im interested.
The guy i bought my snake from breeds them and is a reptile obsessed guy, but he never mentioned to me abotu feeding her in a different place??
Ive been feeding her in her faun and i have dropped the pinkie a couple of times and ahd to get substrate off, id just like to know what people think because i am slightly worried everytime i put my hand in shes is going to think im food, seeing my snake seems to hate me at the moment!!
Also ive just moved her onto 2 pinkies, do i feed her 1 wait for it to go to her stomach and then feed her the other or??
And do i now just finish the pinkies off and move ehr on to the next size which is fuzzies am i right??
God im such a worry worm!! i swear she hates me as she poos on me and everythign loads its like a habit!! |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Benji54 |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 16:56:05
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
What kind of feeding responses are you guys on about? As in every time you stick your hand in the viv you get bitten or the fact you happen to be warm and your hand smells like mouse and sticking hand in viv?
well its a long story for me but here goes. i was messing about with the stat wire which had come loose. i was wearing sweatbands as i had just got in off my motorbike. the wire ran across where i usually USED to feed ophion and i was giggling and shaking it, the wire, (very gently) to get it through the hole. i assume the snake, from his dark hiding place, saw a giggling fuzzy shape, which registered as very warm, in his usual feeding spot and thought "oooh! ill have that!" and hit my hand. i had made the text book error of assuming his head was elsewhere, needless to say, it wasnt. that is (and hopefully will remain) the only time i have EVER been bitten by a snake!*
(*prisma struck at me in his last days but didnt open his mouth, in fairness he had no idea what he was doing bless him) |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 16:44:57
What kind of feeding responses are you guys on about? As in every time you stick your hand in the viv you get bitten or the fact you happen to be warm and your hand smells like mouse and sticking hand in viv? |
| Benji54 |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 15:38:13
well put lotabob. i think youve hit the nail on the head there and so, with that, i shall, taking ALL points on board of course, bow out of this mini debate :)
thanks sexybear for a good ole convo tho! :) |
| lotabob |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 15:26:40
Feeding out of the viv/faun/rub iss good practice but for reasons of avoiding ingestion of substrate rather than making it less likely to get bitten. Each snake is different and (as footballers would say) 'at the end of the day'... they are wild animals and if they take a notion to bite, your likely to get bitten. Doing something the snake is comfortable with and that gives you more confidence when handling is NEVER a bad thing though what ever your opinion. |
| Benji54 |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 13:49:38
quote:
Originally posted by SexyBear77
quote:
Originally posted by Benji54
@sexybear
nah, i didnt misunderstand per-say. i think perhaps you are right, but in a way so am I. it basically depends i think on where you draw the difference between the snake actively defending its vivarium because it is its territory and it feels insecure (what serendipity does) and the snake confusing a warm fast moving object (say, a hand) for prey because its in the place where prey normally is.
so yeah, i concede the point that viv feeding is not =/= to viv defensiveness but viv feeding can have the exact same effect in that it increases the odds of a snake mistaking you for prey. probably worse actually as a defensive snake, particularly a python, will at least give a lot of warning (normally) before resorting to a bite whereas a hunting snake will attack as quickly and stealthily as possible.
I can see what you are saying, but I totally disagree with the bit in bold, especially when it comes to snakes as placid as corns. I have yet to see any evidence that feeding in the viv increases the likelihood of being bitten, or mistaken for food.
again i am obliged to agree with the corns bit. however my royal's feeding response is very strong and i took a pretty good hit from him a while back. my fault entirely, i was fiddling with something and thought he was at the other end...he wasnt. hes the most docile snake ive ever owned (or seen for that matter) but in that instance, i got a warningless strike across my knuckles. Also its fine to say "as placcid as corns" but snakes have different attitudes. I mean, read kehhlyr's post! i wouldnt say that sounded overly placcid!  |
| SexyBear77 |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 13:40:10
quote:
Originally posted by Benji54
@sexybear
nah, i didnt misunderstand per-say. i think perhaps you are right, but in a way so am I. it basically depends i think on where you draw the difference between the snake actively defending its vivarium because it is its territory and it feels insecure (what serendipity does) and the snake confusing a warm fast moving object (say, a hand) for prey because its in the place where prey normally is.
so yeah, i concede the point that viv feeding is not =/= to viv defensiveness but viv feeding can have the exact same effect in that it increases the odds of a snake mistaking you for prey. probably worse actually as a defensive snake, particularly a python, will at least give a lot of warning (normally) before resorting to a bite whereas a hunting snake will attack as quickly and stealthily as possible.
I can see what you are saying, but I totally disagree with the bit in bold, especially when it comes to snakes as placid as corns. I have yet to see any evidence that feeding in the viv increases the likelihood of being bitten, or mistaken for food. |
| Benji54 |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 11:30:39
quote:
Originally posted by Kehhlyr
quote:
Originally posted by lotabob
I dont like the term viv defensive, its just regular defensive & food offensive.
They don't defend their viv they defend themselves when they feel threatened. Thats the quick strike-bite-withdraw type of bite, to get you away from them.
The latch on (possibly even constrict) bite is a feeding response, you've just been mistaken for food.
I completely totally and utterly disagree with this.
One of my snakes is lovely and soft, a really placid snake.
Unless you go into her viv, she WILL go for you, there is no 2 ways about it and it's not a feeding response either, I've never fed her in the viv. She doesn't just quick bite and withdraw, she will latch on and not let go.
If I go to get her out of the viv she will go for me, once she's out she's fine.
When I go to put her back in she's fine until her head is inside the viv then she goes viv defensive again, weird that a snake can be 2/3rds on my arm but get it's head in the viv then turn round and go for me because I've invaded her territory.
freaky snake K! 
@sexybear
nah, i didnt misunderstand per-say. i think perhaps you are right, but in a way so am I. it basically depends i think on where you draw the difference between the snake actively defending its vivarium because it is its territory and it feels insecure (what serendipity does) and the snake confusing a warm fast moving object (say, a hand) for prey because its in the place where prey normally is.
so yeah, i concede the point that viv feeding is not =/= to viv defensiveness but viv feeding can have the exact same effect in that it increases the odds of a snake mistaking you for prey. probably worse actually as a defensive snake, particularly a python, will at least give a lot of warning (normally) before resorting to a bite whereas a hunting snake will attack as quickly and stealthily as possible.
|
| Kehhlyr |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 01:27:46
quote:
Originally posted by lotabob
I dont like the term viv defensive, its just regular defensive & food offensive.
They don't defend their viv they defend themselves when they feel threatened. Thats the quick strike-bite-withdraw type of bite, to get you away from them.
The latch on (possibly even constrict) bite is a feeding response, you've just been mistaken for food.
I completely totally and utterly disagree with this.
One of my snakes is lovely and soft, a really placid snake.
Unless you go into her viv, she WILL go for you, there is no 2 ways about it and it's not a feeding response either, I've never fed her in the viv. She doesn't just quick bite and withdraw, she will latch on and not let go.
If I go to get her out of the viv she will go for me, once she's out she's fine.
When I go to put her back in she's fine until her head is inside the viv then she goes viv defensive again, weird that a snake can be 2/3rds on my arm but get it's head in the viv then turn round and go for me because I've invaded her territory. |
| gmac |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 01:22:34
quote:
Originally posted by lotabob
I dont like the term viv defensive, its just regular defensive & food offensive.
They don't defend their viv they defend themselves when they feel threatened. Thats the quick strike-bite-withdraw type of bite, to get you away from them.
The latch on (possibly even constrict) bite is a feeding response, you've just been mistaken for food.
not true, a corn may well latch on if striking out, is down to chance if it just bites and lets go or bites and holds on. Neither of those bites are attributed to viv defensive or food strike. |
| lotabob |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 01:16:22
I dont like the term viv defensive, its just regular defensive & food offensive.
They don't defend their viv they defend themselves when they feel threatened. Thats the quick strike-bite-withdraw type of bite, to get you away from them.
The latch on (possibly even constrict) bite is a feeding response, you've just been mistaken for food. |
| Thante |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 00:32:22
I feed my two out of their Vivs but not only to stop them becoming viv defensive.
Wile they are both eating it gives me chance to really check there vivs, give them a clean, and change substrate. By the time i'm done there done eating.
Also, While Cherry was still healing from the eye operation it was easyer to watch her eating (i had nightmares of the stitches pooping out while she stretched her mouth haha) in a feeding tub instead of the viv. |
| SexyBear77 |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 22:18:18
quote:
Originally posted by Benji54
quote:
Originally posted by SexyBear77
I feed all 15 of mine in the viv- none are "viv defensive". I personally think this is one of the biggest, most ridiculous misconceptions about feeding snakes.
I also feed on loose substrate for many of them (dry prey only) and again I have never witnessed a single problem.
your free to pop round mine and show me that serendipity isnt viv defensive. might not seem so ridiculous then!
I fear you have misunderstood my post. I am not saying that there is no such thing as viv defensiveness. I am saying that the idea that viv defensiveness can be caused directly by feeding in the viv is ridiculous. I certainly have not witnessed any hint of evidence to the connection between viv feeding and defensiveness in any of my 15 snakes.
My royal python, carpet python, and 10 out of the 12 corns are fabulous strike feeders- they strike, constrict and actively are seen to "hunt" the mouse on the tongs. I can handle any of these agressive strike feeders on ANY day other than feeding day with not so much as a tail rattle, and certainly no viv defensiveness.
I would far more expect to be bitten and my hand or wrist constricted by any of these snakes than to witness s-shaping, tail rattling and quick striking if such behaviours were related to feeding within the snakes territory. In my experience, viv defensiveness is a reaction to a perceived threat- something (eg: a hand) entering the snakes enclosure.
To see defense and threat behaviours (protective actions) associated with food being introduced to the snake (a positive action) is, in my opinion, total nonsense.
I am also a snake section moderator over on RFUK (the "dark side" as its referred to on here) and many professional and experienced keepers and breeders agree that viv defensive caused by feeding in the viv is a load of rubbish. |
| kdlang |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 21:27:01
I do both depending on the snake and how much time i have. Izzy wont eat outside his viv or if he is handled before a feed. The others will eat in or out. Alice and Swayze sometimes have their dinner on a sheet on the living room floor just so they can have a bit more room. Sometimes I have guests round that have never seen a snake eat so I feed in a seperate tub to demonstrate |
| eeji |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 19:00:32
don't be worried about moving your snake after its eaten, you'll be fine moving from a feeding tub back into the viv. The whole 'no handling' thing after feeding means getting them out and 'playing' with them. |
| simonw |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 18:46:04
I'm a viv feeder. Usually feed by hand (holding mouse by tip of tail). Sometimes substrate gets stuck to the mouse/ rat, but doesn't go in their mouths, as they rub it off as they take it in. I always watch them in any case. Each to their own.
I let them have a little chase of the mouse round the viv, so they get a feel for the real hunt, and it seems to improve their feeding response and strike.
They never thank me though. |
| CSN |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 17:12:01
lynne dont worrie about the weight aslong as your snakey doesnt loose weight drastically. it will be fine. |
| LynneM_212 |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 17:09:58
lol i thought she was pooing on me becasue shes related my smell to pooing !! lol or that i was scaring her '****less' lol poor girl also with the weight thing i just saw that somones same is 15 inches long and 40 g im slightly worried now as mine 18 - 19 inches and only 24 g :S |
| CSN |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 16:07:38
i feed karma in her viv and always have. she knows my hand is not food because it doesnt smell like mouse lol.
your snakey is probs just a bit scared when handling. keep at it and all will be well
Also if she is pooing on you its only because she is relaxed with you. so see it as a plus not just as a poo on the hand lol |
| Benji54 |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 15:58:03
quote:
Originally posted by SexyBear77
I feed all 15 of mine in the viv- none are "viv defensive". I personally think this is one of the biggest, most ridiculous misconceptions about feeding snakes.
I also feed on loose substrate for many of them (dry prey only) and again I have never witnessed a single problem.
your free to pop round mine and show me that serendipity isnt viv defensive. might not seem so ridiculous then! |
| razza |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 15:53:31
you should be fine, just wait for the food to reach the stomach(half way way down her body) then gently pick her up and put her back in. if you don't want to pick her up you can also just hold the tube to the viv and let her slide in her self
i have only just started feeding justin outside his viv, and he does not mind me picking him up after.
hope this helps |
