| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| BurnedAtTheStake |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 13:42:33
Sorry about this, but why is so much rep equipment badly designed, baffling, user-unfriendly and expensive (unless you're lucky enough to find a special offer or secondhand in good condition?)
Take stats. Why should we have to add stats to mats? Quite apart from the expense, it means all that fiddling about, drilling hole for probe, positioning, trailing wires ... Why can't the heat mat itself have an adjustable temp, like an electric blanket? And as for adjusting the temp on the stat ... don't get me started!
Heat mats. Don't tape them down because the tape might come loose and stick to the snake. Don't leave them unfastened to floor of viv because snakey could crawl underneath and get badly burned. Best to use something non-toxic like aquarium sealant to glue the mat to the viv floor - I really do agree with this, but if the mat overheats and you have to get it out of the viv in a hurry? I once read about someone's snake taking a dump on the raised bit where the wire connects with the mat, and the moisture causing a nasty stink and fumes.
Now I read about using infra-red lamps and doing away with mats and mat stats ... I may well look into that, and keep my mats for emergencies, but if someone's on a tight budget they might not be able to afford to change their setup.
Locks. Good idea. VERY good idea. I confess that up till now, since there is only me and the cats in the house, I haven't fitted locks. Because of curious cats, and the danger of snakes nosing at the sliding doors of vivs, I've always kept the doors taped securely - fiddly, messy, and leaves scruffy marks on the glass. So, finally I bought proper locks ...
Big mistake - well, from my point of view. The ones in my rep shop look fine, couldn't be simpler. The serrated strip of metal that bolts to the glass, the little circular lock that slides off ...
When I tried to fit mine, the lock didn't slide far enough up the metal strip to ensure the glass doors were kept completely closed, even though I straightened it. If it was adjusted to let the lock slide along, that meant it stood proud and jammed one side of the doors.
I'm going back to the tape.
AAARRRRrrrggggh!!!
Do other people have these problems, or is it just me?
Sorry guys, rant over! |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 23/08/2010 : 17:17:59
True, but then reptile shops are then also facing themselves to get complaints when people do their research maybe one day or, when people come back with burnt reps. Any decent shops do stock stats. It actually suprises me that shops don't try and push for the sales of stats and use some kind of super scaring tactic in order for people to buy them as I'm sure they would make a lot of money doing this.
It depends on the warranty of the mats and stats. Ones I bought have a guarantee for 5 years, not all stats will have his I know but if they did make combos and had this kind of guarantee that would be fine for me but I guess this might not be a good option for people with many snakes if they all decided to break outside of the warranty period. Yes there is more potential for an all in one to go wrong but it would be a nice option to have. I didn't say they should stop making the separate, I just thought like the OP that it would be nice to have an all in one. If they made them in such a way that the "probe" was like a thin strip lamented into the mat, people wouldn't have to worry about probes being moved about and where to place them. I also think that they would try and make the mat and stat combos as cheaply as they could so would probably try to use other materials in order to make a mat in which you can set a temperature. |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 23/08/2010 : 11:12:25
Ok, so habistat and microclimate make a combined unit, all well and good for us, because we know the importance of having a stat, but, a huge amount of people just go to a shop and the info they get is that a stat is not needed, so won't sell a combo at about 50 quid over a mat at 15 quid, they won't sell them, so won't stock them, in turn would lead the makers not to bother because its not finacially viable.
As its one unit, and I assume the stat probe is built into the mat, what would you do if a mat broke? What about if the stat went south after a year??
You can't just plug another mat in because you wouldn't have the stat probe, again, you can't just replace the stat because its all one unit.
I have lost at least 3 mats to snakes wrapping around the wires, pulling them out of the mat, that's 30 quid in mats, or 150 quid in combos, what would you rather pay?
Not only that, but then you got 3 redundant stats that are impossible to use.
If you then made 2 separate units, a mat with a stat probe built in that could be attached by 1 wire to the stat, then that would be more expensive, would you rather have a combo that costs 30 quid for the stat and 25 quid for the mat replacement??
Or, 30 quid for a stat and the normal 10 - 15 quid for mats? |
| sullysteve |
Posted - 23/08/2010 : 10:59:26
i actually find it funny to watch my fellas use the cables from the thermometer as a Royal marine rope!! |
| FiestaSTLou |
Posted - 23/08/2010 : 10:26:38
We go thru a endless amount of cables ties every month when its cleaning time lol very time consuming but, keeps them all in place together, stops them all getting tangled and the snakeys pulling the wires about lol |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 23/08/2010 : 09:36:43
But if the more well known companies that make heat mats like micoclimate and habistat had mat and stat combos then it may make people think and read on about stats and why they are important. Even if these companies and other ones still made some mats and stats seperatly and also made the mat and stat combos, people would surely compared the heat mat with a built in stat with the one without.
Maybe heatmat companies should stress that stats are more important in an obvious way :/ |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 23/08/2010 : 07:36:22
But logically, not all companies will make stats and mats together, habistat could as they make both, however, not all stat makers make heatmats, and not all mat makers make stats, so you would still have just mats on the market. 'Most' uneducated people would still just buy the mat, cornering the market and forcing the others to do the same.
I have lots of wires too, but I tuck them around the back, once setup, you shouldn't need to play with the wiring. |
| BurnedAtTheStake |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 18:16:39
quote:
Originally posted by mikerichards
the problem with having a combined unit is convincing people that they would need that. Too many petshops etc are telling people that stats are not needed, and because petshops are 'all knowing', people believe them and wont pay the extra.
9 times out of 10 you will have to make a hole for the heatmat cable anyway, so just make it a little bigger and run both cables the same way, that would be the simpler answer.
I know - I did think of that, with the drilling of holes but it's just the thought of how the two separate gadgets could be so easily combined in one. Simplification. User-friendliness.
If all heatmats had built-in stats, people would have to buy them, surely?
Ah well, back to Battersea Power Station ...
|
| kdlang |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 18:05:13
The thing that bugs me about separate heat mat and stats is the amount of cables you have outside the viv. I have to have space at the side of my stack just for all the cables and they are forever getting tangled no matter how careful I am with them. In fact I am considering getting a couple of twin stats just to reduce the number of cables and plug sockets needed a little and keep my others for spares. |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 17:39:14
the problem with having a combined unit is convincing people that they would need that. Too many petshops etc are telling people that stats are not needed, and because petshops are 'all knowing', people believe them and wont pay the extra.
9 times out of 10 you will have to make a hole for the heatmat cable anyway, so just make it a little bigger and run both cables the same way, that would be the simpler answer. |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 17:30:28
i have an idea about how to sort out your lock problem. Do you have a wire coat hanger? |
| BurnedAtTheStake |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 17:23:57
quote:
Originally posted by Sta~ple
quote:
Originally posted by BurnedAtTheStake
My vivs do have those holes at the top, but I've found with my nosy lot that if I have a wire trailing down the back of the viv, snakey uses it as a climbing rope and pulls it out of place. Easier just to drill a hole, just hate all those wires making the place look like Battersea Power Station!
Wow lol Mine don't do that. But I do have a big ivy plant going through the holes at the top that cover the wires and then they trail down to the floor, so the snake climbs on the plant not the wire.
I never knew Mike they weren't ment to go over 30, I know mine certainly go over 30 as I have seen mine at 35 before!
A mat and stat combo would be good, that way shops wouldn't be selling unstated mats, people will always complain about the cost of snake equipment, but once you have it all, you have have a substrate to pay for if you choose to use it and food. Overall they are a lot cheaper than a cat or a dog.
Yeah, that's what I did in the end, disguise the wire with branches and foliage but now I'd rather train it straight out of the viv.
I agree - once you have your set up it is cheaper than a lot of pets - it's just the initial fiddliness and complication. I'm not complaining about the expense so much as the user-unfriendly aspect. The stat business - it's like buying an electric blanket and then having to add an extra gadget with a probe to keep your blanket at safe temp levels, and then worrying about whether you might roll over on it when you're asleep ...
I will admit, I'm an expert worrier - about everything! |
| BurnedAtTheStake |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 17:14:48
Hi, Mike, thanks - but that's what a couple of us have been saying - we don't mind paying for the combined cost of mat and stat - it would just be great to be able to fit a mat, adjust the temp, and not have to mess about with extra equipment. (Call me lazy!)
I do appreciate your point that so many people do say: do this, do that, as if it's writ in stone ... I confess that sometimes I prefer to trust to my gut reaction/common sense (if those two can be considered to be the same!) but when you're comparatively inexperienced you do worry that you're doing the right thing ...
However, with these dratted locks, I shall put the one I've wrecked down to experience (and into my oddments box in the hope I'll recycle it someday) and politely return the rest (unused) to my friendly rep shop (hope they'll exchange them for some frozen mice!) |
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 17:13:49
quote:
Originally posted by BurnedAtTheStake
My vivs do have those holes at the top, but I've found with my nosy lot that if I have a wire trailing down the back of the viv, snakey uses it as a climbing rope and pulls it out of place. Easier just to drill a hole, just hate all those wires making the place look like Battersea Power Station!
Wow lol Mine don't do that. But I do have a big ivy plant going through the holes at the top that cover the wires and then they trail down to the floor, so the snake climbs on the plant not the wire.
I never knew Mike they weren't ment to go over 30, I know mine certainly go over 30 as I have seen mine at 35 before!
A mat and stat combo would be good, that way shops wouldn't be selling unstated mats, people will always complain about the cost of snake equipment, but once you have it all, you have have a substrate to pay for if you choose to use it and food. Overall they are a lot cheaper than a cat or a dog. |
| sullysteve |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 17:03:04
quote:
Originally posted by Scarlett
I would love self statting mats and lights, even if they cost the same as buying the mat and the stat (or light and stat if you use those). It would just be so much simpler, safer and I have no idea why no one's made it already! B.A.T.S, get on the Dragons Den asap! =]
could call it sullysteve's statmat |
| mikerichards |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 16:35:55
To be fair though, even if you incorporated a stat into the heatmat, then you are gonna end up with a very similar cost, even at cost the stats are still 25 quid or so, for a dimmer/pulse anyway.
Dont forget, the heated blankets still have a thermostat in them, it wouldnt work otherwise!!!
I know what you mean though, there are so many options that you can go for, thats why its such a good thing to have a forum with many people that do the same thing! you dont have to go very far to find an answer to your question!
I have said before, and most likely will say again many times, there is no specific right way to keep any animal, but there is a most definate wrong way!!!!
some people will go on about how you 'must' secure the mat down, you 'must' ensure that the snake cannot go under it, you must have this that and the other!
thing is, many people have many different ways of doing things, not wrong ways, just different ways!
I do not secure my mats down at all, i dont see the point, if a snake is determined, its gonna get under it, no matter what you do.
As for stats, well, lots of people thing its a little bit of a grey area, lots of people do not see th epoint of spending an extra 40 quid when a mat is not designed to exceeed about 30 degrees, however, multiple tests have shown that there are certain circumstances that will cause a mat to exceeed that by a hell of a lot!
Most of the speculation is brought about by people giving out information that really shouldne be allowed to speak, let alone advise on reptile keeping!!!
Ie, one guy i was listening to giving advice said that a heat bulb for a beardie must have a guard on it, the customer said oh right, then asked the question i was thinking, 'hows the beardie gonna get to it?'
the moron sales person was stumped, then started waffling, classic case of complete lack of knowledge.
Just to point out, you are already paying for the combination of a mat and stat!!!! combining the two wont make it cheaper! |
| BurnedAtTheStake |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 16:08:29
Hi, everyone and thanks- what's dragon's den? - Ah, will Google it - I do tend to forget about Google!
Yeah, I really can't understand why mats don't come automatically statted - I too would willingly pay for the combination.
My vivs do have those holes at the top, but I've found with my nosy lot that if I have a wire trailing down the back of the viv, snakey uses it as a climbing rope and pulls it out of place. Easier just to drill a hole, just hate all those wires making the place look like Battersea Power Station!
You know, there's a big market waiting to be cornered by someone with the expertise and funds to invent equipment tailored to the needs of us snake keepers ...
|
| Sta~ple |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 15:55:55
Don't worry, it's good to have a rant at times. I often wondered why heatmats don't come with stats.
Some vivs you don't have to drill holes, they come with holes at the top that you feed the wires through.
And I leave my heat mat unfastened to the floor... I have had no problems yet. If the snake took a poo on the heatmat, it was probably a snake that wasn't supposed to be housed on one or, the heat mat was of poor quality. It clearly states in the instructions for my hat mat that big bodied snakes shouldn't have heat mats as a heat source as their poo can flood it. I was at one point worried about my snakes pooing on the area you described, until my big corn poo right on that area and it was totally fine. Good quality heat mats have been tested again these kind of things.
I hate lamps although admittedly I only used the ones that emit red light.
I use wedges for my corn, although the only thing that should be able to open my viv doors is something with pose-able thumbs. I only use the wedges so that I check I have correctly slid the doors back into place. |
| Scarlett |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 15:14:23
I would love self statting mats and lights, even if they cost the same as buying the mat and the stat (or light and stat if you use those). It would just be so much simpler, safer and I have no idea why no one's made it already! B.A.T.S, get on the Dragons Den asap! =] |
| BurnedAtTheStake |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 15:00:09
Thanks, guys - all very true. It's just so easy to read and read and go into info overload and worry about whether you're doing the right thing. However I tried the cardboard trick, Kehhlyr, when I got my first viv, and the damn doors still moved ... perhaps I'll have another go. Like the sound of your Mr Vice ... (I'm just a hammer-teur!)
Anyone else with any views? |
| elament |
Posted - 22/08/2010 : 14:50:33
yep my heatmats are the same and xena has recently been going under hers and I havent had any problems because they are statted correctly. I think with snake keeping you can make it as simple as you like or as complicated. I go for simplicity. |
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